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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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fortknox (2059 D)
18 Oct 11 UTC
Major discussion topic...
"who would get Windsor castle if Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip split up?"
30 replies
Open
Draugnar (0 DX)
17 Oct 11 UTC
So Mr. V was actually Diplomat33.
More inside.
87 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D(B))
17 Oct 11 UTC
copyright violations?
So hasbro owns the rights to this game?
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Maniac (189 D(B))
17 Oct 11 UTC
@Kestas - I think the Queen would get Windsor Castle; the Duke would only try selling it to pay off the Greek debt and that is prohibited in our unwritten constitution.
2ndWhiteLine (2736 D(B))
17 Oct 11 UTC
Maniac - that's why the Copyright Extension Act of '98 was termed "The Mickey Mouse Act." Disney doesn't want the mouse falling into public domain.
Draugnar (0 DX)
17 Oct 11 UTC
I'm of two minds with regards to expiring copyright. There should be a copyright for a specific work and then copyright for characters (IP). IP should eb for as long as new work is being produced or a company uses it for recognition, as is the case with Mickey. But for the specific work, it should have an expiration from the date it was created, say 50 years. So Steamboat Willie should be in the public domain for not-for-profit use (i.e. you can't make copies and sell them but you can have free to the public screenings or use it in the background of another movie) but Mickey should remain the IP of Disney as long as Disney is a viable company even though Walt is gone.

If that were how it was set up, then Dr. No the book would be in the public domain and Dr. No the movie would be coming into the public domain soon but 007 would remain a literary copyright for the Fleming family as long as they continued to have writers crank out new works and it remain for Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson as long as they continued to crank out 007 movies.

But that might actually make sense and be a realistic copyright law...
ulytau (541 D)
17 Oct 11 UTC
There are commercial computer versions of Diplomacy and there had to be approved by Hasbro before they got out into the wild. Take that crap from Paradox Interactive from 2005. The graphics are distant to the board game, you can only play it in Wilson... still if Hasbro said so, it would never hit the shelves.
Draugnar (0 DX)
17 Oct 11 UTC
There is a difference between a computer game, and an online community for playing a game. In every computer game of Diplomacy to date that I am aware, there was no online multiplayer element to it. It was all A/I and sucked.
ulytau (541 D)
17 Oct 11 UTC
The version I'm talking about supports both LAN and online play with humans.
Draugnar (0 DX)
17 Oct 11 UTC
Interesting. I don't recall that one. Did it adjudicate the game correctly?
ulytau (541 D)
17 Oct 11 UTC
I don't think anyone can say that for sure. It was the first game GameSpy gave a half-star review. Proper adjudication was the least of that game's concerns.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
18 Oct 11 UTC
"Did it adjudicate the game correctly?"

+1

@IP versus copyright term limits.

I don't know how you would do such a thing, you're changing the meaning of public domain to exclude profitable use. So it would be possible to make and sell steamboat willie toys (on a not for profit basis) but you would be able to re-use the original work.

Would you be able to re-cut the original work?

I think this largely misses the point. IT must have been the other thread where it was explained that artists would have no reason to create anything if they could not profit.

Youtube is a direct counter to this claim. ~69 thousand hours of video uploaded every day.

In some cases this creativity is prefered over hollywood blockbusters (there are examples of people prefering to watch stop motion starwars on youtube to watching high def blue ray re-released films)

Youube is trying to implement a profit sharing scheme, and does protect copyright - a legal requirement and an incitement to more mainstream media outlets to use youtube. However this does nothing to disprove the lie that artists would not create at all were it not for copyright.

IF you were to reform copyright law, i think you'd have to go a bit further and take a look at the root causes.
Tru Ninja (1016 D(S))
18 Oct 11 UTC
The bottom line for copyrights is if Hasbro is losing money because of something we are using of theirs, then there's a copyright infringement. This site does not do that. It doesn't charge to play the game, people on this site aren't going to not buy the game because they can play it on here instead because there are tournaments world wide that use the board. This site is more of a major advertisement to a game that isn't terribly well-known. Hasbro has no need to move on this, or any other site, as long as it continues on the way it has.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
18 Oct 11 UTC
@Tru N: What does lose of money have to do with copyright infrindement?

if i make and give away mickey mouse dolls, disney will sue, because i've copied the image of some of their IP. I may not be making money from it, and they may not sell such dolls in my region, thus will not be losing anything, but i'm still breaking copyright.

The making or loss of money may influence the decision to sue, but not the validity of the infringment claim.

If Hasbro thought they could make money from online diplomacy, they might want to shut us down to silence the competition. This happens to not be the case, mainly because they have bigger more popular IPs to spend their time investing in...
Draugnar (0 DX)
18 Oct 11 UTC
Making steamboat willie toys be against the use as Mickey is a trademark character. I hadn't thought much about the public domain for profit via VAR. I guess releasing Steamboat Willie as a special addition DVD or BluRay for profit would fit into that just as republishing a book like a Hugo's Les Miserables with a new translation and annotations is acceptable as well. They key would be allowing the characters to remain the property of the artist be it a studio or an individual for as long as they are using them and a chorter period beyond that time. So, Disney goes bankrupt and 20 years later Micky and Donald are eligible to be used by someone else. The problem with the Mickey Mouse Copyright is that it extended all compyrights based on the original artists life, when copyright should be transferrable such that Lucasfilm owns the Millenium Falcon as long as it is making Star Wars products and Warner Brothers owns Bugs Bunny as long as they are making WB Cartoons. The fact that the original artist passes should be irrelavent if it was his company or he transferred the copyright to the company who paid him for it. At that point, it should be for the life of the product in whatever form, be it Woody and Buzz dolls or Disney amusement parks with Mickey Mouse. Only specific artistic pieces should fall into the public domain and that should be based on a time period from their creation to give the artist his profit.

Now, onto profits...

Artists will make art because their sould cries out to do it. It tears them up inside not to. That said, they still deserve to be compensated for it should someone like it and only they and their assignees should have the right to profit from their art, no matter the form. If I record a song on a CD, I should have a significatn period in which only I and those I designate as representatives should be able to profit from it. Yes, you heard me right, I'm anti music piracy. Do I like the RIAA? No. They are organized crime as they effectively hold a monopoly of the big 5 music publishers and, quite honestly, I think that kind of power should be outlawed the same as if the oil companies all got together and decided the price of gas in an area... Oh wait! They do... I honestly think the music industry (and the big oil) needs an overhaul.But I think it needs the overhaul so the artists see more while reducing the cost of the music so their fans are encouraged to go ahead and buy it knowing it won't break the bank *and* their facorite band is getting the bulk of the profit, not some big shot CEO of BMG or Sony.
fortknox (2059 D)
18 Oct 11 UTC
OK, I'm going to apply some business sense, here:
A business isn't going to sue someone unless it has a solid reason to. What would Hasboro gain by starting an international lawsuit with Kestas?
In other instances, Hasboro had a similar product and removed the competition so it would have a monopoly on the market (scrabulous example).
WebDip doesn't have a 'market share', and doesn't have anything in competition with Hasboro (do you know how hard it is to find a diplomacy board game outside of germany??).

The fact of the matter is that Hasboro either doesn't even know about webdip, or does and doesn't care (and even if they don't know, when they find out, they wouldn't care). While Hasboro can afford expensive lawyers, why would they pay for them to take down a website that is pretty much doing them a favor by advertising an old game that didn't sell well, but could create a resurgence through the website?

Honestly, the biggest fear from kestas would be just that. If Diplomacy underwent a major resurgence and Hasboro decided to write their own online version, webdip could be under trouble....
But, as proven with the scrabulous situation... Hasboro would probably rather throw a couple mil at Kestas for him to take his code, since he's already done the heavy lifting and they can create the product in days instead of months...

So I think there isn't anything for Kestas to worry about.... more likely he'll just get paid a lot of money than get sued.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
18 Oct 11 UTC
@fk: That raises an interesting question, kestas has published the code under AGPL (which is a form of copyleft)

while hasbro can simply use the code, and kestas could sell the website (and all the user information it contains, and the domain name) but the general public license is designed to guarantee the freedom to use the software however you like. (including modifications and so on)

So i don't think Hasbro have anything to gain from taking this license, I don't know the legal powers entitled to a company - except that they can't retroactively do anything.

So they could re-release this website under a closed source license (making the swing from copyleft to copyright) but they couldn't prevent any other forks from running on other servers.

In a sense the only thing to sell is us players, and i don't know that a community would be well disposed towards their sale... term & conditions apply.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
18 Oct 11 UTC
oh, and yes, hasbro were willing to shell out multiple millions to buy a web-game which was making ~20k per month. IF that were the income of this site then we'd be doing pretty well.
Draugnar (0 DX)
18 Oct 11 UTC
@fk - Took me about 30 seconds...

http://www.amazon.com/Avalon-Hill-221930000AVH-Diplomacy/dp/B0015MN6JE/
Draugnar (0 DX)
18 Oct 11 UTC
and more...

http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3098982
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/p/diplomacy/1105891840?ean=653569306306

Here are a lot for sale...
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/483/diplomacy

And here's something interesting I may just have to buy. Look at who the authors are...
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/diplomacy-hephaestus-books/1105988626?ean=9781243987082
fortknox (2059 D)
18 Oct 11 UTC
I meant find it in a store.
Draugnar (0 DX)
18 Oct 11 UTC
Ah! Well you should have said as much. I can get it to my house before the weekend, though. :-)

I did see one the other day at B&N. almost bought it, but don't have anyone to play with nowadays. Maybe if a group of us Greater Cinci folk get together sometime...
fortknox (2059 D)
18 Oct 11 UTC
I had seen it at a local comic shop, but never in like a target or walmart or anything like that.
I'm sure some popular comic shop would be happy to setup a game and help get players...
Draugnar (0 DX)
18 Oct 11 UTC
Comic shop? You want me to go in one of *those*? hehehe

Actually, now that I'm back on the north side of town, I may start back with the Cinci Boardgamers and go play at Yottaquest in Mt. Healthy again. I'm sure I couldget a group of 6 others to play some live Dip. And Yottaquest may have the game for sale. they are a gaming store first and foremost: boardgames, rpgs, card games like M:TG, and miniatures.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
19 Oct 11 UTC
ok, so to re-iterate the point, whether this site makes money or not has nothing to do with the validity of the legal claim.

You can be in breach of copyright without profiting.

Whether there is money to be made from online diplomacy does impact the likely-hood of Hasbro deciding to sue (or take other action)
orathaic (1009 D(B))
19 Oct 11 UTC
based on the scrabulous example, i have to assume that 'webdiplomacy' is too much like the name of the game, and that could be changed.

i don't know about the map.

i understand specific parts of the map were added after the first draft to improve balance, for example helgoland blight gives germany the ability to move out of kiel without bouncing with england, otherwise england could occupy the north sea and block germany fleet movements entirely...

this territory does seem like an odd geographic feature to add if the rules of the game are not taken into consideration.


53 replies
Thucydides (864 D(B))
16 Oct 11 UTC
Animal Rights
Here discuss animal rights. Specifically with reference to animal testing and vegetarianism. Give me your views, and your moral justifications. Thanks.
66 replies
Open
SacredDigits (102 D)
18 Oct 11 UTC
I guess I successfully predicted the future in the October ghost ratings topic
As of Friday, I was in four games. In the last 24 hours (well, 30 technically, but it's close) I received the following message three times: "You were defeated, and lost your bet; better luck next time!" Bye bye, highest GR spot for me to date. I've never been so soundly defeated so often in so short a time.
11 replies
Open
jpgredsox (104 D)
18 Oct 11 UTC
The United States Shouldn't Have Entered WW2
The United States intervention in World War Two cost 418,000 American lives. And, really, what did the United States gain from it? Hitler was gone and Nazi Germany was destroyed, but much of Eastern Europe running from East Germany to Russia was under the (de jure or de facto) rule of Stalin and the Soviet Union. U.S. intervention fostered the spread of communism by destroying its primary opponent, fascism, thus setting up the Cold War for the next fifty years.
84 replies
Open
jpgredsox (104 D)
18 Oct 11 UTC
The Octopus
I have always been intrigued by this opening (sev-->black sea,
warsaw-->galicia, moscow-->st pete's, st pete's-->gulf of bothnia) but have never really had the balls to try it out. Does anyone prefer this opening/has anyone won by this opening? Any general thoughts on its merits/detriments are welcomed.
9 replies
Open
vontresc (128 D)
18 Oct 11 UTC
Maps
Hi I used to use the email dip judges, and am rather new to the Webdip site. I really like the setup, but I'm not a huge fan of how the maps are drawn. is it possible to generate a "results" map without the arrows for a more uncluttered look?
6 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
18 Oct 11 UTC
Hoe is het in Nederland?
Hoe is het in Nederland dan? Ik ben alweer een poosje weg daar. Hoe is het weer bij jullie? Zijn jullie ook dat gezeur van die Wilders zat of is ie nog erg populair bij sommigen? Ben benieuwd.
5 replies
Open
Cachimbo (1181 D)
18 Oct 11 UTC
Regarding Diplomat33's case; an open letter.
I'm having a hard time with the idea that he might be allowed to continue playing on this site.
30 replies
Open
thinker269 (100 D)
18 Oct 11 UTC
Question from new guy
Public messaging only: does that mean what I think-that we can only communicate on "Global"?

10 replies
Open
HavocInside (100 D)
18 Oct 11 UTC
New fast pased game!
I am wanting to sit down and play a good game. I was wanting it to be 10-20 min for each turn. Bet only 5. It would be zero but it seems that is not allowed. I require 6 additional players. If you would like to play reply to this thread and spread the word. Once I have the needed players I will post the link to the game. Enjoy, looking forward to a game and have a good day.
0 replies
Open
Diplomat33 (243 D(B))
18 Oct 11 UTC
The beat on D33 thread.
Have fun with it. It doesn't bother me at all. Just don't sink to profanities.
4 replies
Open
Ayreon (3398 D)
18 Oct 11 UTC
Irregular etiquette... cheating
In game Supper's ready France and Austria has a strange comportament:
Austria has 18 SC plus other 2 SC to conquer to France and win instead he does not finish the game leaving the SCs to France while France announces that he wants more England's SCs before Austria win...
It's not regular do I ask the intervent of moderators...
Thanks
1 reply
Open
kestasjk (99 DMod(P))
17 Oct 11 UTC
Male / female pay equality
I just read an article on the BBC, basically someone got sacked for saying women in New Zealand get paid 12% less, but it's because they need more leave (in particular he hinted at women's menstrual cycle as causing regular sick leave in some women)..
33 replies
Open
stratagos (3269 D(S))
18 Oct 11 UTC
A word on trolls
If you see someone post something so ignorant, so enraging, so *wrong* that you just *have* to respond - the odds are they don't believe it and are just trying to get a reaction. Mute is your friend
18 replies
Open
Balaran (0 DX)
17 Oct 11 UTC
cheating!
when someone is playing 2 countries in a game or chatting to another player to co-ordinate moves in GUNBOAT, Is there anything that can be done to ban them. Ive checked there records and they have played together alot and the cheating is clear.
28 replies
Open
Fasces349 (0 DX)
18 Oct 11 UTC
Corruption in Texas
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/10/why_even_bother_consulting_the.php
2 replies
Open
Diplomat33 (243 D(B))
16 Oct 11 UTC
Teen Diplomacy Tournament member list.
the list is below.
54 replies
Open
jpgredsox (104 D)
12 Oct 11 UTC
Young-Earth Creationism
I learned today that, according to polls, a solid 40-50% of Americans believe in Young-Earth creationism, the view that God directly made the Earth and humans (no evolution!) about 6,000-10,000 years ago. Yay for American intelligence!
160 replies
Open
Invictus (240 D)
18 Oct 11 UTC
Another Disgraceful Act by Chavez
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/17/us-venezuela-opposition-idUSTRE79G65T20111017

What else can you expect?
9 replies
Open
Tolstoy (1962 D)
14 Oct 11 UTC
Is the New World Order unraveling?
I am interested in the opinion of the community:
http://lewrockwell.com/buchanan/buchanan189.html
20 replies
Open
Diplomat33 (243 D(B))
18 Oct 11 UTC
Russia is my favorite nation to play.
And likely many of yours as well. Let those who smile at a successful triumph by the Tsar gather and show their support of the russian nation gather here in this forum.
9 replies
Open
Diplomat33 (243 D(B))
17 Oct 11 UTC
Meat eating vs vegetarianism
Im doing a research project on eating meat, so i thought id poll the forum and see what it thinks.
32 replies
Open
Diplomat33 (243 D(B))
17 Oct 11 UTC
My multi
Well, ill apologize to the community. I wasn't trying to gain points, just fool around in the forums. I hope the community will realize that. I will take what the mods decide to do with me. And i hope i am not shunned (thank goodness you are all not draugnar, j/k drag) Think about my situation here.
5 replies
Open
Emperor Napoleon (100 D)
17 Oct 11 UTC
Worried about cheating...
I am very concerned that two players in a game I just joined are cheating, however I don't know how to take care of them. I see from another thread here that we can't post cheating accusations on the forum, so... what do I do?
8 replies
Open
gf6455 (100 D)
17 Oct 11 UTC
Only cool people are allowed to join this game...
gameID=70152 Just kidding
1 reply
Open
Ges (292 D)
17 Oct 11 UTC
EOG: With Marshmallows!
Dear fellow players: Let me apologize for my lousy play as France. Italy, you took advantage of the situation well, but that was one of the sloppiest outings I've had on the site. Best to all in the future.
0 replies
Open
gf6455 (100 D)
17 Oct 11 UTC
ONE MORE PLAYER!!!!!!
0 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
17 Oct 11 UTC
I'm an idiot and I don't know the rules
Hi folks,
The situation I want to discuss follows
8 replies
Open
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