Figlesquidge would you be interested in commentary?

Troodonte, ursa, friendly sword, you're welcome to join in sone capacity as well ESP since I've never played y'all!

I was thinking, since its a day per turn, why not allow the players to comment, but not in the 1st person? We could comment on the entire board and at the end of the game comment on what we actually thought as we played our country. The end comments would be like end of game statements EOGS.

Since commenting on gunboat games in progress is a sensitive issue what's the best way to run commentary content?

Each player would comment on what they thought ALL countries were doing and why. It would show that even experienced players sometimes disagree on what the intent of a certain move was. Since 7 players would be commenting on 7 countries it shouldn't give anyone an advantage. It's just a thought.

We need to be more specific then ecause commentary shouldn't influence what moves people choose to play.

I think there should be one official commentator. Each player should be free to PM the commentator to explain moves or motives. The commentator would not disclose who said what, but would use that information to confirm their own thoughts. Players would be on their honor not to use the commentator as a conduit to get messages to other players.

I like this idea. Jcbryan would you rather play or do commentary? I'm also interested in figlesquidges opinion.

I think one official commentator + a couple of secondary commntators not from the game is workable.

@ jc, how would confirming our moves to you be any different than 7 other players doing that in the forum? If we listed in abc order the countries and then gave our thoughts on each country, there would be no advantage. If 6 players said "It looks like France wants to be England's friend" and one disagreed it would be an obvious red herring.
A Opened "Houseboat" playing it safe. Blocking a possible War-Gal and thus preventing a 3 on n against Rum.
E blah blah bla
F you get the idea
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Oh I don't want any role. I think I need to learn more than I need to teach.

@Czech: It'd be different for a number of reasons, but I don't think my idea is any better than yours. The one advantage mine has is neutrality. Obviously you're aware of the problem of neutrality, as you try to mask clues by listing countries alphabetically. I love that idea. But you may still have clues--some will have more focus on particular areas of the map because that's where their country is. I think opening moves will be simple, but later in the game it may be easier to spot who is who. Another worry is that players may (inadvertently or not) convey messages, which would be a variation of your 'red herring' issue. More along the lines of "It looks like France wants to be England's friend ...and would be willing to if England supported them into Belgium." My final issue for your idea is that it requires extra work for all 7 players. In my idea they have the option of writing to the commentator, but don't have to.

But ultimately, I like your idea and don't suggest mine is any better---just different.

I have received numerous requests for the password already, but let's get the commentary issues set up before starting. I think I tend to agree with jcbryan about commentary. One or two official commentators, but I don't see the need for having players message them (i.e. it can be optional). I'd rather even the commentators didn't know which player was who. The point is that in anon gunboat there are no messages, no communication - your moves speak for yourself. So with that in mind, here's what I envision for commentary:

1. One or two official commentators, who are experienced and reliable.
2. A handful of 'speculators', who are either new to the site or would like to engage in constructive viewership of this game so as to improve their gunboating.
3. Players will not be allowed to post on the thread anything pertaining to this game specifically. They will be allowed to post if it does not relate to the game. For instance, if I want to point out a general truth about gunboats that will help anyone following learn something, such as "In gunboat, your opening moves are your first diplomatic statements. The next few moves will be carried out according to how screwed or not screwed the opening moves make you." - this is ok. What is not ok is if a player says: "In gunboat, your opening moves are your first diplomatic statements. England has opened to NWG, but finds a French fleet in ENG and Russian army in STP. England is screwed." - this is NOT ok.
4. Any other debate/banter/speculation from people not in the game is ok, but please keep such talk germane to the topic of the game.

The point is to ask as many questions and learn as much about gunboat as possible.

Thoughts?

ava, i like your idea. are you ok with the players answering questions about their moves posted on this thread privately? i think it may be more beneficial if new gunboaters, or people who want to understand the game better, have direct access to the players.

I have nothing against that, although some players might not like to have their in-game identities revealed. A list of players shall be published before the game starts.

their idenities wouldn't be revealed on this thread, only to the person who asked the question. obvioulsy, that person would have to show a little class and not let slip with who is who and what their intentions are.

Also, how do we deal with finalizing moves in such a game? Since this game is going to be followed by a lot of people, I suppose it should be at least a little bit periodic or regular in nature...

to truely make this a teaching tool, it should probably be two day phases with no finalizing for move turns, and finalizing after 24hrs on build and retreat phases (unless the unit retreating can only disband). that makes the game very slow, but easy to follow for people who want to read the commentary and ask questions.

This doesn't teach people to play gunboat. It teaches people to play a stupid variant where someone outside the game tells them what to do.

I think 24 hours is OK since questions can be asked during retreat and build phases so each year will be ~ 5 days after year 1.

@rlumley - how would you suggest doing it then? Last time I played you in gunboat, it looked like you could've done with some help yourself!

you keep talking about a commentator. would that be a player, or a third party? it'd make much more sence for a third party to come in and post unbiased comments partaining to the game in a set thread(i.e. this one) then a player making comments in-game.

I had an idea on the way home. 8 games with 8 people. Each person sits one game out as a commentator. Lower the points per game, but keep the total 1001 (for the 7 games that you play in) if you wish. Also keep it password protected. The commentator would run the thread (8 threads) for the game he/she is sitting out. It would give the noobs a chance to see how the same players react in different situations. You can keep the PM between spectators and players and NO player posts on the thread unless it's generic as you suggested above. What do you think?

Ah. That's a whole lot of trouble, Czech!

@jwalters: See a post above for details. The commentator would be a third (or eighth, rather) person.

@ AVA it would be nice to have other perspective though.

*sense*

all right, i'll admit, you've gotten my attention hooked. i'm rather facinated by this idea. i'm not much for gunboating, but i think i may change my mind about it.

Hi I'm here, but won't be around much over the summer - going away for the next two weeks.
However, whenever around clearly I'm happy to help out.

Good to hear. I hear gunboat veteran Barn3tt might be interested in commentary, which would be great if it comes through.

Another thing that works quite well is assigning each player a mentor who can then talk them through it. However, this does require greater assistance

hey all, I would be willing to be a commentator on the first game. I'm intrigued by Czech's rotational idea and would like to have the opportunity to be a player in a commentary game as well.

Wonderful! Although I'd love to have Barn3tt in the game because it's a pleasure to watch him in action, I think his commentary will be much more valuable. All, Barn3tt has 250+ games under his belt, many (if not most) of which are gunboat.

One nice option would be to get each player to send in their thoughts to <someone>, who would then collect them all together into one email. This would then be sent out to all the people observing. Each player would be expected to be honest with their opinions, and the commentator/compiler would be free to add their own thoughts.

Also, if around I'd be happy to play, although we both know how little I'm here :/

I like trip's idea of people being able to directly question the players. Maybe there could be email accounts set up (e.g. [email protected]) so that anonymous players aren't "outed" in the forum by ne'er-do-wells looking to wreck the experiment.

I think figles' centralized compiler idea is awesome, but I'd like to do it in such a way that it goes onto the forum rather than by email. Any volunteers for compiler? Barn3tt, since you're very much into this honor system business, would you be willing to compile player statements and post them here with confidentiality?

Ava, I can do that.

Ok so here's how this will work. I will send out passwords to more players. Then the game starts, and after each turn, Barn3tt will provide his thoughts and answer any questions out there on the forum. I have second thoughts about the player statements because that is obviously against the spirit of gunboat. So let's keep it simple and wait for the game to start. I will publish a list of players once the game has filled up.

i talked to Ava about this, but i'm gonna tell you all. i'm very interested in being a commentator as well. i could do a secondary line of opinion under Barn3tt about player strategies and the like.

I like the idea of 2 commentators. If the players PM the commentators and they talk it would give a better picture to the newbie IMHO.

Can we get someone who does a great Howard Cosell impersonation. That would be the bees knees.

Sorry for the late answer.
Yes, I might be interested, but I need to know specificly what are the players supposed to do /comment/teach (not really sure if I'm qualified to teach anyone).
Some games are coming (leagues and webdip world cup final). I just need to know if I'll have the time to dedicate to this.
Is it defined yet how it os going to work?

Yeah, I might be interested in participating too once the plan is laid out more definitively.

@Troodonte: The way this is designed is different from School of War as it is anon gunboat and talking would defeat the purpose. So the players have no commitment aside from playing well and being a total badass. Barn3tt, figles and others shall lead the commentary/teaching. As of now there is only one game. If this is successful we will do more installments in a similar manner maybe switching up commentator lineup etc.

Count on me to play then ;)

I'm in if you want me ava.

my howard cosell impersonation is a little iffy, but my impersonation of the ree brother's impersonation of cosell is spot on.

actually, only one of the ree brothers spoke howard cosell, the other didn't speak english at all.

ava, besides playing well and being bad asses, shouldn't players also answer questions asked in this thread about their play through private messaging, or is that idea on hold?

It's up to them.