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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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brainbomb (62 D)
06:48 AM UTC
Inspirational Females
Here is a thread to post inspirational stories about women who have positively impacted your life.
38 replies
Open
Thaneofwhiterun (1055 D)
Thu 05 PM UTC
New York is the best.
Now that I've gotten everybody's attention, would anybody be interested in playing a game of American Empire where everybody plays as the region that they are from? I think that might be kinda fun and could be a way to release some of this clearly geographical tension that is brewing in the forums.
I'd have to claim NY
38 replies
Open
brainbomb (62 D)
Thu 03 PM UTC
(+9)
Cookie Monster Solutions
Instead of regulations, (YAWN), lets have unrestricted gun laws and limitless purchasing. The only rule is the retail employees *must* dress like cookie monster to make gun stores more kid friendly. Offer gun buyers a plate of CoOKiEs.
83 replies
Open
SkiingCougar (501 D)
Sat 12 PM UTC
You mention anything to do with politics, you lose
Whenever a thread turns to politics it always ends nasty, let's have a nice friendly thread :)
20 replies
Open
Fast Classic games
Hey! New here..
Anybody up for classic games to play with fast turns? 10 min/turn.
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=210955
Up to the challenge?
3 replies
Open
DemonOverlord (554 D)
Tue 14 Nov UTC
(+22)
webDiplomacy Mentor-Apprentice Program
See below
104 replies
Open
Peregrine Falcon (1280 D Mod (B))
18 Oct 17 UTC
(+2)
School of War - Fall 2017
Fall 2017 School of War Lecture and Discussion Thread. This semester will be taught by Professors ckroberts, eturnage, and Djantani.
gameID=208533
348 replies
Open
Yoyoyozo (8480 D)
04:46 AM UTC
"Biggest Game of All Time" EOG
This thread is reserved for discussion of the gunboat game "Biggest Game of All Time" in which the some of the best gunboat players on the site slogged it out to see who would reign victorious
19 replies
Open
brainbomb (62 D)
Wed 15 Nov UTC
Mansplaining and manscaping
I heard people use the term mansplaining recently. It was negatively stigmatized but what does it even mean? Also I head people saying something about manscaping and I wondered if that was a type of yard work. Any input is appreciated.
207 replies
Open
brainbomb (62 D)
Wed 08 Nov UTC
Rhyme Time IV
Across the bloody plain arose seven soldiers, seven sonnets, seven rhymers riding a comet. Winter Rhyme Time IV has arrived, the press will be public and the goal is survive, win, or draw if you must, just dont stop rhyming or your castles become dust.
28 replies
Open
Tom Bombadil (1535 D (G))
Wed 01 Nov UTC
(+7)
Mafia XXXII:Mountainous Cannibals and Friends
This thread is for Mafia XXXII Participants only
2512 replies
Open
Peregrine Falcon (1280 D Mod (B))
20 Oct 17 UTC
(+1)
Study Group - Fall 2017
Fall 2017 Study Group Lecture and Discussion Thread. This semester will be taught by Professors Tom Bombadil and StackelbergFollower.
gameID=208608
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eturnage (681 D (B))
Sat 04 Nov UTC
Sorry, wrong thread. Oops.
Claesar (104 D Mod)
Sun 05 Nov UTC
Bump
StackelbergFollower (1261 D (G))
Mon 06 Nov UTC
(+2)
I’ve missed quite a bit of commentary, so let me do a quick post to catch up on what I missed before commenting on the most recent.

------------------------------
First, 1901 builds. Tom’s post from when the turn processed was good and I don’t have major disagreements. The one observation that I want to make is that how well you do in a builds phase depends a lot on not just your own build being tactically wise, but on your opponents’ builds being in your favour.

Some very good examples of this here: (1) England’s position was amazing because no one else in the north built fleets, and France’s position against Germany is magnified by England building A Lon (committing to the assault on Germany and ensuring France that the English Channel probably remains empty); (2) Russia building in Moscow does a very good job of putting Austria in the driver seat in the east, and at this stage makes me very pessimistic of Turkey’s chances (I am writing this without having taken a close look at the turns that processed after builds). After these builds, I rate England pretty highly, I am optimistic about Italy and Austria’s chances, and I think France, Russia, and Turkey have some options to build on but significant challenges. And if I were Germany, I’d be very worried.

------------------------------
Moving to Spring 1902. What does it look like is happening here?

On the face of it, England has enlisted Russia to help against the war with Germany, which is risky and sort of a weird choice. It shows a lot of confidence in Russia’s future intentions, so maybe we’ll come back to this move later.

Also, the downside of France’s opening is starting to become apparent. His movements against Germany are not going to yield swift progress, so while he’s in no danger, he is lagging behind his English ally and Italy is proving to be a real (smart) thorn in his side. Looking further east, Austria’s move to Bohemia is hilarious and amazing and I have to wonder if the idea didn’t come from Italy the way he’s been playing. Of course, it would be a huge coup for France if he’s convinced Austria to abandon Germany and Italy, so I guess we’ll see next turn.

I won’t grade every move, but if I had to do a rough ranking of everyone’s position so far, I would probably go something like Italy, England, Austria, France, Russia, Turkey, and then Germany (these are not rankings for this turn, but for the game as a whole).

-----------------------------
And the real action happens in Fall 1902, it turns out! The most exciting turn yet, so I’m glad I’m getting my post in before builds. I’ll start from West to East and give out some grades for moves this turn.

ENGLAND: B-
So, look, getting Denmark and a build is nice, but the (likely friendly) attack on Norway and the somewhat more vulnerable position in the north is basically 100% self-inflicted. I feel like England has gone from having a power position to just being in a pretty good place. As England, I’m always ecstatic when Germany is in Sweden, because it means Germany’s units are further from his home centers. I’m also ecstatic about owning Norway when different players own Sweden and StP, because they usually can’t agree on who should get Norway if anyone attacks it. In the long term, this may end up being okay for England. But I am concerned - Germany popped France’s army, and Italy has forced France to turn their attention away from Germany. A careful look at Russia’s orders suggest that the StP-Norway move was just a precaution on Russia, probably something he even told England he was doing, so no huge concern there, just a problem down the road that didn’t exist before this turn. It’s not clear that Russia will lose whatever conflict he is in the midst of it in the east, and if he doesn’t, it’s hard to see that peace between England and Russia is sustainable.

France: B-
Good call realizing that Italy is your enemy. That’s long overdue, and makes a lot of sense given what’s happened in the four turns this game. Italy’s moves and diplomacy are the biggest reason France is not further ahead. Tactically, I don’t know if the moves France has made this turn are necessarily the strongest for yielding success against Italy, but they’re not bad. Losing Ruhr to Germany is a big loss, however, since it probably means it will be hard for France to be anything but neutral in the conflict between England and Germany. Also, I think Germany’s move against Ruhr was fairly predictable, and the loss of Ruhr with nothing to show for it is a big tactical failure. That is the main reason this grade isn’t higher. It was also certainly a mistake last turn to prioritize Piedmont over Burgundy, and I’d have written more about that move specifically if I weren’t behind on commentary. Being in Burgundy a turn earlier could have saved Ruhr - but then, maybe what France wanted (and needed) was an excuse to abandon the attack on Germany. If so, I would probably adjust this grade higher.

GERMANY: B+
Best turn for Germany all game. Germany has achieved three major strategic/tactical objectives this turn: (1) Stunting France’s attack by popping the army in Ruhr, (2) seemingly getting Russia to make a hostile move against England, and (3) enlisting Italy to help pull France away even moreso. In this turn, Germany has gone from seemingly being attacked by 3 or 4 players, to possibly having something like 1.5 enemies and some bargaining power. Losing Sweden, if that was a part of the bargain, is totally worth this payoff. I sure hope the press between England, Germany, and Russia is extremely active right now. These three players have no shortage of discussions to have this turn. And even though I’m giving Germany a B+ for rescuing a bad position and becoming a major factor in this game, I would still caution that Germany is at a disadvantage relative to England and needs a couple more turns like this before he can be happy with his position.

Italy: A-
I really like Italy’s play so far, and that’s because it looks like Italy has strengthened their relative position by using diplomacy really well. In the long term, it’s very bad for Italy if France and England quickly defeat Germany, because that would likely mean he’d be well behind another power which has had the opportunity to build a lot of fleets before Italy finds a path to growth. Pulling France off Germany is great play in that respect, and it comes at basically no cost because the attack on Turkey is still proceeding reasonably well. The only thing you could have done better would have been getting into Tyr Sea without France being alerted to the move. While I think developments are unfolding well for Italy, my earlier note of caution remains: it is hard to see where Italy’s growth is going to come from.

Austria: B+
Everything here is very reasonable. But Russia (predictably) getting a build makes Silesia not super useful unless Russia can be talked into not building in Warsaw, and it should have been pretty clear going into this turn that Bulgaria was not going to fall. I'd be interested in some more tactical analysis of these moves; my first instinct is that this turn is a lot more effective for Austria if we change Serbia's order and send it to Greece, and change Bohemia's order and send it to Galicia. Still, no traction for Turkey, and no cooperation with Russia but still Russia and Turkey are fighting. Good things for Austria.

Russia: B+
Like Germany, I think Russia got a lot of things they really needed this turn. The build from Sweden, seemingly good relations with England and little to fear from Germany, are all to see. What’s puzzling is Russia’s relationship with Austria. Bohemia to Silesia is hard to read as anything but anti-Austria, and Russia didn’t use Rumania to help Austria, but also took a risk in leaving Rumania vulnerable to Austria this turn. And at the same time, Russia moved to Armenia. I worry it is not tenable for Russia to remain sort of hostile to Austria while also fighting Turkey.

Turkey: C+
I think Turkey really needed to shake things up this turn, and unfortunately did not. Russia’s move to Armenia and the loss of the Aegean Sea suggest that Turkey’s diplomacy isn’t getting traction behind the scenes. Turkey needs to work hard now. The best thing going for Turkey is still that there’s no cooperation whatsoever between Austria and Russia. The only way out of this is to find a way to use that.
Powow (523 D)
Mon 06 Nov UTC
Bump
Tom Bombadil (1535 D (G))
Mon 06 Nov UTC
Sorry for the delay everyone, but I’ve posted my grades below. They include the last turns movements, as well as the build choices (which certainly cast some light on why some movements occurred.)

ENG: C+

First off, it’s hard to give someone this low a grade when they are tied with the leaders with 6 units, particularly when it is a corner power that is usually difficult to invade. However, I feel similarly to Stackel when he points out that ENG could have positioned himself more strongly as a 6 center power. Looking at the board now, he is at the mercy of too many people – which is ok, but only so long as your diplomacy keeps you afloat. RUS has two units threatening Norway. GER has two units threatening Denmark, and France has built a fleet in Brest. Looking at the rest of the board, the two biggest positives for you are the French convoy into NaF and the RUS move to Armenia. The move to Armenia and subsequent build certainly shows that RUS is making an effort in the South. This is a good thing for ENG as RUS likely doesn’t want too much trouble in the north too, but having two units on Norway is always a tough spot as a fall stab is always possible. The French army move is interesting, but does not outweight the burden of France being allowed to build a fleet in Brest. If anything, ENG should have convinced FRA to not bounce in Pie, leaving Mar open for a fleet build. This is a failure on ENG’s part that leaves him a bit vulnerable to a FRA/GER attack if they decide to do so. ENG has much to offer FRA still, but needs to keep his communication up. His path to 18 still looks strong.

FRA: D+

I don’t particularly care for the convoy to NaF as I don’t see how that will be useful. Your fleets are too out of position to make much of an attack on Italy without help from the other side, and it doesn’t look like TUR is going to be able to help. The continued bounce in Pie has destroyed any potential to expand for you in the med, while your disband of Ruhr has made chances of gains in GER small as well. Even if you continue to work with ENG against GER, it will be imperative that you make gains as well, as it looks like GER is in a position to make sure ENG takes the centers and not you. The fleet in Brest gives you some options, but taking on a 6 center ENG is a tall task, especially one who you have been an ally with all game. When I look at the board, I have a hard time seeing you get to 18 on the current path, which means you need to start to find a way to shift things in your favor.

GER: A

I thought this was a great turn for GER – and I’ll give him credit even if some of it was coincidence. The Italian move and French move in the med mark a potential conflict there. Plus with the disband of Ruhr, FRA has lost all momentum with his armies. Losing a center is never a good thing, but that fleet was a good unit to keep as it keeps you important in Scandinavia, which is promising considering the potential tension between RUS and ENG. There may come a time where they seek you aid, and you could use a friend right now. I can’t comment on your path to 18, but I will say that I feel like you have made your units relevant, which is a good thing to staying off the menu!

ITA: B-

Another ho hum turn for ITA – which is a blessing and a curse. First, the bounce again in Pie is another win for you as FRA cannot build a fleet there and instead must build in Brest. The convoy to NaF is worrisome, but considering your position, FRA can’t do anything in terms of damage to you – particularly in light of your move to TyS, which was a good decision. The problem though, is you are going to have trouble finding a way to expand without some help. Going towards TUR is an issue because AUS and RUS could shut you out of gains there considering how slow it is to get your units there (and how out of position you become). Going this route you need to be sure that you will gain something out of Turkey AND be able to hold that gain. On the flip side, a move west is likely to be a slog unless you get help from ENG and/or GER. And that risk is similar in that you need to be sure to get something out of it as well. In either case, I would like to see a more assertive ITA come through in the next few turns, as patience and defense can only last so long.

AUS: C

I feel like AUS is being held up by his tactics. Overall, I think he has positioned himself in a good spot, with routes for expansion and nobody heading his way. He seemingly has a friendly ITA and RUS, and TUR is not in a position to do much harm. Yet the tactics fail again here as he has wasted units. Hindsight is of course always 20/20, but Serbia and Trieste not moving is a failure. Either this was a bad decision or you were misled by RUS (I can see a scenario where you were expecting Rum to support you and SEv to cut support from Black Sea). In any case, moving Serbia to Greece and Trieste to Serbia would have put you in a much better spot considering what RUS chose to do. And you and RUS should have had this conversation to put you in a better position against a tough country to crack in TUR.

TUR: C

Tactics were fine in terms of movement, but obviously now you need to find a way to stay alive. The fleet build by RUS is particularly troubling as it puts you in a very tough spot. They key for you now is to stay relevant. You can make it hard for one or the other to gain centers, and you need to start helping one of these powers stab the other. And you should be having these conversations now. Concede a center or two to convince the other to make a stab. Use your units exclusively to help that power and remain relevant. Playing defense won’t get you very far at this point, so you need to play offense with one of your attackers. See gameID=191866 for an example. I was forced to work something out with RUS, and do as he asked to help him advance to a solo position. Eventually I was able to work my way into a draw by continually staying relevant.

RUS: A

I think this is another great turn for RUS. The situation in the south looks good as you have an immediate route for expansion so long as you get minimal help from AUS (and it is a situation where you both stand to gain). Whether you used misdirection or just silence, AUS’s lack of movement to Greece and Serbia slows him down a bunch, which gives you the upperhand in getting the bigger piece of the pie in TUR. They key for you in the south is to make sure you get a couple of centers, but be wary of where AUS may head next. Once AUS is rolling, it is tough to deal with, and he’s got to go somewhere next. The situation in the north is also solid for you, but you need to make sure you can hold onto it. Working with ENG or GER could have benefits, but they key is that they don’t work together against you. This is another situation where passive play and indecision would betray you. Better to be aggressive and pick a side, so that they don’t find the space to befriend each other!
Claesar (104 D Mod)
Wed 08 Nov UTC
bump
Peregrine Falcon (1280 D Mod (B))
Wed 08 Nov UTC
(+1)
So many stabs happening. I think I only see one alliance currently set up?
Tom Bombadil (1535 D (G))
Thu 09 Nov UTC
Will get to full grades this evening. There are a hell of a lot of red lines on that board. Seems like distrust is high!

Tom Bombadil (1535 D (G))
Thu 09 Nov UTC
(+1)
Spring 1903 Grades:

England: A-

I like this turn quite a bit from England because he is dictating play. There seemed to be a situation where something had to give in the western triangle, and its better to push the action than wait for it to be pushed onto you. Deciding to go with GER for the near future was a great decision considering the path it can help you achieve south, and having an ally in the north allows you to pick up centers in Scandinavia. The worry here is that while GER’s fleet in Baltic helps solidify your gains in Scandinavia, it eventually could be a problem for you in terms of vulnerability. Regardless, long term I believe you have set yourself up well in terms of a path to 18. And having an ally in GER without(!) a fleet threatening North is a great spot to be. The absolute mess in the east only further increases your prospects as you made gains this turn while virtually every other country (besides GER) did very little. Your path to 18 seems to be in great shape. The only thing bringing this grade down a touch is the move to Wales – I feel like a move to London would have been much stronger as it leaves you with more options. Even if you have a very strong idea of that unit’s purpose, its best to leave some mystery to the rest of the board to keep them honest.

Germany: A

Another great turn from the German as he has positioned himself back into a place of relevance, and in this case has strong prospects of expansion – something that looked tough just a year ago. The decision to work with ENG and cede Sweden is a strong one, as ENG is the ally that can help you grow. You had a decision to make between trying to swing France towards ENG, help RUS against ENG, or side with ENG. The decision you made was a good one as ENG has much to offer in terms of letting you grow. Being on the offensive is a good place to be, but you have to be somewhat concerned at how vulnerable you continue to be. You’ve done well to keep AUS from getting frisky, and 2 English fleets in Scandinavia is going to be a concern down the road, but right now it is ok to look at the short term of getting your footing. The key here is to concentrate on making sure you pick up centers out of this. You need to be clear with your allies (ENG or whomever) that you both need to grow to make this work. Now is not the time to be cautious, and so long as you continue to be helpful, you can latch on to a stronger powers coattails until you can get your footing. It is a delicate balance however, as you must continually prove that you are more beneficial for the long term to keep them from taking the short term gain of your unprotected centers. You seem to have done a good job thus far, so keep doing what you are doing. Your path to 18 is limited, but in much better shape than it was just a turn ago.

France: D

I don’t really know what France was trying to achieve here, but it did not work. From the looks of his orders, he may have been expecting German help into Belgium, but if that was the case, he should have sent MAO south. Fighting ITA and ENG is a recipe for disaster as France. If he thought an English stab may happen, it would have been much more prudent to use Burgundy to go to Picardy, and Brest to English channel – but obviously hindsight is 20/20. Things are not so dire for France just yet though, as he is a tough shell to crack. He has the immediate fleet advantage against ENG in terms of positioning and won’t lose a center this year. The key now is to make peace with Italy or England as he doesn’t have the fleet power to protect against both. Losing Burgundy is a problem, but the armies will move slowly into France, so it gives him time to test his diplomatic chops. France has the option of trying to swing England back onto his side, or trying to swing GER/RUS against ENG. If ENG is not able to build a unit this build phase, France’s fleets in Brest and MAO could be an issue for England – so France is not in terrible shape just yet. That being said, the road to 18 look quite troublesome for France.

Italy: C-

None of your units achieved anything this phase. This is not good, even for a power that can afford some patience. I don’t know how much to read into the attempted convoy into Greece, but it was odd. Had the move succeeded, and even been supported by AUS, I would have given you higher marks, but as it stands, you have a useless army in Tunis, and limited expansion potential. It looks like you expected to have Greece per a deal with AUS, so I’m interested to see if this was a minor hiccup in the relationship or something bigger brewing. You are at a bit of a crossroads because France and Turkey are both in trouble and they are your best bets at expansion and you are not ready to take advantage. I don’t know how you are going to pick up centers unless you quickly get in a better position to do so. On the bright side, you still have control of the Med – but if you are stuck with 4 centers for the rest of the game, you will eventually lose that superiority. You are not in a terrible spot, but your expansion prospects are dwindling, and you are not in a position to be useful to anyone currently, giving you little leverage to negotiate. You need to assert yourself a bit more and make sure you are getting something out of this – because right now you are stuck with a brutal path to 18.

Austria: B-

I’m concerned with where you are at. Your path to 18 remains in good shape, and you have positioned yourself to make gains this turn. That being said, it looks like you made a couple enemies out of RUS and potentially Italy to do so. I think this turn for you will be one of the pivotal moments in your game as it can go very well if you play it well. I don’t know what happened in Greece, but you shouldn’t anger Italy without having a good reason to do so. You are still only a 5 power country surrounded by neighbors. You will likely have suitors this phase and a lot of people talking to you. Things look a bit murky here so it is hard to comment, but I grow concerned when it looks like TUR and ITA were expecting Greece, and you made moves against RUS (who was helping you into Bulgaria). It seems like you’ve done something to damage every relationship around you, which your diplomatic skill can fix, but it’s a bold move that requires quite a bit of confidence in your ability with words. I would have liked to see a more direct approach against someone, even if it meant conceding Greece to do so. The way you have done it opens up the board to rally against you. You have to give to get, so just be sure you have a friend or two this year and lock up a couple of gains. Don’t forget that people expect something in return, and leaving them out in the cold may come back to bite you.

Turkey: B

Well, you didn’t lose Bulgaria this turn which is a good thing, and AUS looks to be making a play on RUS so you may be safe for a bit. There isn’t an Italian fleet in East Med, which is another win. You are still in a massive amount of danger this turn, but things could have gone much worse. I can’t wrap my head around the Greece situation, but an Italian army there would have been worrisome. I don’t think your situation is all bad as you have positioned yourself to be useful to many people. Italy could be convinced to stab AUS. RUS is likely looking for help against an AUS who likely lied to him. AUS is likely looking for help to put him over the edge against RUS. It seems like a win-win for you and someone to work together here, but you need to be sure that any deal involves them getting out from threatening your home centers. The best thing about TUR is that one power can’t defeat you alone – and this is true here. So long as you don’t have RUS and AUS cooperating, you can muster a great defense. You just need to pick the power who can offer you the most, and who best gives you a route of expansion – whether it is through the Med, the Balkans, or north. The nice thing is that while you are pinned down, TUR's path to 18 is rarely closed off, and that is true here.

Russia: D

Oooof. Not a stellar year for you as things went poorly on all fronts. The loss in Sweden hurts and unfortunately there isn’t much you can do about it. I think this is mostly a product of sending two units north and not having clear direction on what to do with them. You were helping ENG, but once ENG was in Denmark, you had almost nothing in terms of leverage. You couldn’t help ENG very much, and had two units threatening Norway. It was too good a swipe for England to pass up. This is why I think the support into Denmark was poor, as you gained little from that maneuver. In the south, it simply shows how one move can alter the whole turn. Had Austria followed through and taken your support into Bulgaria, you would be in good shape in the South as it would have been a crippling blow to Turkey. You would have set yourself up with a center in Ankara, and worked out a split with AUS. Something obviously fell through however, and now you are in a bad spot. Luckily the unit in Smyrna is a fleet, so Turkey isn’t totally equipped to defend against you, but you need help and quickly. Keep talking to your neighbors, as they are likely ready to listen – but remember that you need to give and take in a relationship too, and you are in a position where you need to trust somebody – RUS is not an easy power to defend and things can crumble quickly. No reason to be passive now – reach out to someone with something bold and clear. If any one of you takes something from all this dribble I type it should be that PLAYERS CRAVE DIRECTION.
StackelbergFollower (1261 D (G))
Fri 10 Nov UTC
(+1)
Hey, this is a fun turn! Let me see what I can say about it.

Before I get to the turn, a quick note on builds. England’s build was a strong hint that there were problems to come for France, whatever diplomacy underlied it. I would speculate that France’s obvious intent/need to build F Bre motivated England to build F Lon, and this source of tension either escalated into conflict, or the opportunity to stab that followed was just too tempting.

On the Russian build, I am going to start by noting that a lot of players on this site would probably offer a lot of caution against ever building F Sev, especially in the early game. Russia’s territory is hard to defend, and Russia’s neighbours often have a lot of armies. My philosophy as Russia tends to be to build armies, or build fleets in StP, but not fleets in Sev. There are three main principles here: 1) you need armies to defend your territory and most of your expansion is through armies, 2) a fleet in StP can go to a lot of useful places and tends to be necessary to get past the stalemate line, and 3) a fleet in Sev will usually just get bottled up in Turkey and make it harder to defend your territory. So I wouldn’t have gone with this build unless I was extremely confident in an alliance with Austria, and there’s nothing on the board before this build phase to have given Russia that confidence.

Moving on to grades for this turn! I’ll start with the east to mix things up.

Turkey: B
I mean, sure. Turkey is stuck and has like a million enemies. What else is there to do? I still can’t help but think there are some really unfortunate failures of diplomacy happening here. The triple bounce in Greece and the failed support order from Rumania are all just really bad signs.

Russia: C
I don’t understand what Russia’s goals were this turn. Given Rumania’s order, it seems like Black Sea is not meant to attack Turkey, but then there was really no reason to build it. And now Russia has 2 units which are not useful for expanding, as far as I can see, because they’re behind the lines of his only plausible ally, and no shortage of enemies on every other spot in the map. That fleet build didn’t leave Russia with very much bargaining power or ability to offer anything to anyone, so maybe this is more of a grade for that build than this turn. Every message Russia could have sent this turn and every move Russia could have made would have been much more effective if an army had been sitting in Mos or War.

Austria: A
Finally, Austria moved to Galicia! Considering that it seemed like an alliance between Russia and Austria was never going to happen, and that leaving Greece empty has completely stunted the assault on Austria, going hard against Russia really was the most viable option. Russia’s fleet build, I think, just made that too tempting to resist. If this was done in coordination with England, it’s even better. My going concern for the next for Austria is figuring out exactly what it will take to keep Italy on-side.

Italy: C+
I am going to assume Austria asked for the bounce in Greece, and that neither Italy nor Austria knew what Turkey would do (although the risk that Italy would move to Greece was surely high on everyone’s mind). So why the low grade? Well, Italy has 4 units. Two of them were used to help Austria, his ally, and two of them were used to just hold his ground against France. I’ve liked Italy’s play so far but I’ve always said he runs the risk of being stuck without room to grow, and that risk has never been more acute than this turn.

Germany: B+
When you’re on the defensive and it looks like you might be out for the count, a good move to make can often be to play favourable for the stronger the players attacking you. It looks like that’s what Germany did here. England’s position remained stronger than France for a while due to a good opening, although England was never able to fully capitalize on it. Germany seems to have bet the farm on England being interested in a true power position in the west, which is what an alliance with Germany gets him now. This turn leaves Germany is a fairly vulnerable position, and it’s difficult to see how to turn this position into growth, but it’s possible no one is attacking Germany anymore. That’s a big win.

England: A
A lot of risky but tactically sound moves this turn, and the result is a power position in the west, probably one build if you can keep Germany on side, and an ally who badly needs England. Basically, everything is coming up England. And a good correction of the error in the north, which just had to be too tempting to resist after Russia basically disarmed himself with the F Sev build.

France: C-
The low grade is because this turn is a failure of diplomacy, not bad moves. Assuming that France is going to be sieged on all sides, there are good moves. But that’s an unfortunate assumption to make, and making it can only mean that diplomacy has failed visibly and badly. Even if only the attacks from England and Italy were predicted, it’s hard to see how the moves could have been better. The game is about more than just your moves, though. And I’d add the even though the moves this turn were okay from a tactical perspective, the reason they add up to a bad position is because of poor choices earlier and bad diplomacy right now.
France requested a pause. The game will continue Monday evening.
chipo (291 D)
Sun 12 Nov UTC
bump
Unpaused!
Powow (523 D)
Thu 06 PM UTC
Bump
Tom Bombadil (1535 D (G))
Thu 06 PM UTC
Ooh. Some interesting developments this turn. I'll get to my commentary shortly.
Indeed! Odd moves from Germany, good stab by Italy. Quite a board-changing turn.
Tom Bombadil (1535 D (G))
Fri 07 PM UTC
(+4)
Ok. So I am interested to hear what people think about how the Italian move shapes the board. My grades will reflect this to a certain degree, but this decision by Italy has a far reaching impact on the game, and I would suggest each player re-evaluate the path to 18 they had set because of how this will impact the next few years.

Italy: A

I’d be hard pressed to find a reason not to give you an A grade here. There does exist a school of thought that says Italy stabbing AUS relatively early is a poor play for Italy because while it may increase the likelihood of Italy having success early, it actually decreases the chances of an Italian solo because it becomes more difficult to get to 18. I personally think that is nonsense, and is more a product of many Italian’s stabbing AUS ineffectively – often too early where AUS can galvanize support from a neighbor, or even retake Italian gains independently. In this case, I think the stab was strong. You get two builds. You are likely to be able to hold your gains. AUS is way out of position to defend with units in Warsaw and Silesia. France has no fleets threatening you. Turkey likewise has no fleets in the Med. It cannot be overstated how important it was for you to take Greece with an army, as a fleet there would not help in the Balkans, and you were able to find utility for an army that was useless in Tunis. Your western border seems secure, and you just need to make sure the remnants of TUR/AUS/RUS don’t galvanize against you – though if you play it right, you have much to offer, so it shouldn’t be difficult to keep one on your side.

Austria: D

This turn was a failure of turns past, not a product of what happened between your communications this turn. As AUS it is difficult to expect Italy to stay patient for so long, and it would have been much better to keep him occupied either by successfully coordinating a Lepanto, or making it worthwhile for him to move West. Italy has a hard time finding a way to expand, and your failures to make ground against TUR together in 1902 and 1903 made this stab a growing inevitability. To me, the failure was on the strategic side more than anything. Nothing about your tactics was incorrect, and while I can’t read your press I don’t think it was to blame. The failure was your decision to move on RUS while allied with ITA. Relationships in Dip rely on give and take. I don’t mind an AUS working with TUR – but you need to have the situation resolved with ITA because it will leave you exposed. It is difficult because you have such little to offer ITA in this relationship. The reason a Lepanto works is because Italy can see herself picking up Turkish centers out of the relationship (even if it sometimes is an illusion). The reason Italy stabbed here is because you have nothing to give. Working with you had no upside because Italy can’t gain RUS centers no matter how much he likes you. Certainly there was a degree of diplomatic failure as TUR helped ITA instead of you – but the main issue was not looking at the board from Italy’s perspective. Italy was trapped and had nowhere to expand except through you. All is not lost though – you can certainly right the ship. But remember that you need to think about your opponents intentions as well. Think about how your decisions impact their potential to grow – you need to make them feel like they have a way to expand too.

Turkey: B

Turkey is the hardest person to grade this turn, because most of what I would grade on is not apparent from the move set. Obviously Turkey was not in a great spot last turn, and decided that the best course of action would be to help Italy make the stab on AUS. I can see the merits of this, but I also think it could blow up in his face – it just depends on how he plays it. Helping Italy grow large is a scary prospect for TUR because it essentially gives up the prospect of southern expansion through the Med. Normally I would consider this a bad play, but here I think it was strong. RUS was knocking on the door so instead of helping AUS into Rum (Again, AUS needs to evaluate what TUR would have gained from this), TUR helps Italy take an Austrian center. RUS keeps TUR and AUS loses a center – two things that could gain TUR some major points with the Russian – very important considering RUS is being forced to disband two units. I think we need to wait and see what the builds look like to properly evaluate what TUR’s prospects look like following this turn – but for now, I’ll give it a B.

RUS: B

You lost two centers this year (though only one for this turn), but you still get a B, so good work! Losing Warsaw was almost a certainty this year as the only thing that could have saved it was a Munich move to Sil which seemed incredibly unlikely no matter how charming you are. The move in the North was predictable but solid which buys you a little bit more time to figure out a way to keep ENG from sending units your way in the north. The move to GoB is not good on the surface as the only real purpose behind a move there is to threaten St. Pet, but I like to look at it like an optimist: you have more ammo to persuade ENG to move on GER as it’s just another unit that is out of position. St. Pet was doomed either way, so the move to GoB shouldn’t be viewed too negatively. The move by Italy is what earns you higher marks this turn even if you had nothing to do with it. A few things happened here that help you: 1) The Balkans are in chaos, and ITA and TUR in particular will look to gain centers there instead of at you, 2) AUS which was in a position of power against you is crippled. 3) AUS will be desperate moving forward and desperate powers can be unpredictable. In your case unpredictable is good because you need a bit of chaos to get back in this. Think hard about your builds because they can very much influence what directions you are able to go in the spring.

GER: D

I really don’t like the move to GoB. There is no upside, even if the idea is ENG supporting you into St. Pet. That unit is out of position, and can’t be held easily even if it makes it into St. Pet. I imagine looking at the board that the idea was actually to have you take Belgium with Holland, and then support Norway into St. Pet – this would have been great, but it was too obviously going to be blocked. It was really the only move RUS was going to make with that fleet in Ska, so instead of picking up a center in Belgium, you are out of position with a very limited scope on how to expand. With regards to the stab by Italy, besides AUS this hurts you more than any other country by far. The immediate problem is instead of a seemingly friendly AUS in Sil, you’ve now got a desperate AUS there. You do no want desperate units neighboring your home centes. AUS will be fighting to stay relevant and the way to stay relevant is to listen to offers on who needs your help – this is not good for you, and you’ll want to get ahead of this and find a way to make sure AUS doesn’t head your way. On the other end, France and Italy have completed deescalated the conflict in the Med, allowing France to get into a very strong defensive position. You need to swing things your way because right now, France looks like a hard nut to crack – and you are out of position with that fleet in GoB.

France: A

A great turn for France, and the small gamble of leaving Paris open pays off. You are not out of the woods as eventually your line of defense can be broken down, but boy will it be a slog now – you’ve bought yourself a lot of time to point people in directions that aren’t facing you. They key here was making peace with Italy, as the move into the Med was not yielding any results. The convoy back into Gascony was necessary, and really solidifies your defense. A fleet build in LvP could eventually wear you down, so I’d be working like hell to convince ENG to build elsewhere, but even if that is the case, you’ve bought yourself time. And time is essential because who knows what the board will look like in a couple of turns, and you may have an easy opportunity to get ENG off your back. The key here is to play defense with your units, and offense with your words. Now is not the time to think about where you are going to get builds. It is the time to help ENG think about where HE is going to get builds
and how you can help him achieve those builds.

England: C+

You units did nothing. This is never a great outcome, though in your shoes it certainly isn’t a bad thing. I don’t know if you anticipated the move to Norway failing, but it certainly played out in your favor as you get the build instead of Germany. The Italian stab has good and bad ramifications for you. The bad is that France suddenly become much harder to invade, and while it can be done, it will take a lengthy process. The good is that you have a couple of rogue AUS units that can help you go through GER or through the north if you wish. On the surface it may seem apparent that a move into GER is the correct play, but I always caution against going the path of least resistance as its not always the best, particularly if you want to solo instead of draw. You are in a great position because you have options on where to go, and hold a corner position. When thinking about what direction to take, I would advise thinking about the 18. Always come back to that. You’ve solidified your strong position. Thinking about how to pick up the next couple of centers, you will position yourself to a 3 or 4 way draw. If you think about how to pick up your 18th center, you will greatly improve your chances of soloing.
A_Tin_Can (1958 D)
Fri 09 PM UTC
(+2)
Great post from Tom! +1, particularly for the comments on Italy

I’d also add that the timing of this stab is good because the north is not going swimmingly for Russia. This means that if Russia wants to be a major power in the game, he’ll need to get growth from somewhere. It coming from Turkey and Austria is more attractive than it coming from just Austria. This means that Russia is slightly incentivised to work with Italy over Turkey- and in turn, means that Italy is less likely to be rolled by a juggernaut (which is often the result when the stab is mistimed).

What’s happening in the north isn’t the only factor that makes a stab of Austria effective, but it’s a good example of the kind of strategic factors that are important in a well timed stab.

It’s also a good example of how growth for other players helps you- if you’re Austria, in general you want Russia to be putting down northern fleets and doing well in Scandinavia. This is because it gives Russia growth that isn’t coming from Austrian centres (or from centres that Austria is likely to compete for), and it structures the Russian position so that it is easier for him to work with you than against you.
Claesar (104 D Mod)
10:32 AM UTC
bump


79 replies
peterlund (1320 D (G))
Sat 11 Nov UTC
Sweden-Italy, 1-0 !!
I was watching the World Cup Qualifiers Game in a pub yesterday evening. And we nailed it! :) 3:07 into this video you find the goal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj55HHnBG_Y
12 replies
Open
KansasBoyd (207 D)
Wed 10 PM UTC
(+1)
Cookie Cutter Solutions
Several here have proposed generic cookie cutter style gun solutions for the United States
100 replies
Open
Fluminator (496 D)
Sat 08 AM UTC
Haha. Canada blew off America in the 60s
http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/cia-wanted-to-punish-canada-in-1962-for-flouting-cuban-trade-embargo-jfk-files-reveal/amp
19 replies
Open
JamesYanik (548 D)
Wed 15 Nov UTC
Prediction Thread
Trump gets back from his tour in Asia soon, and he'll likely have a response to Roy Moore. Vote on the likely response here:
49 replies
Open
mmcconkie (60 D)
Wed 15 Nov UTC
(+1)
Resources to Improve Players
I signed up for the mentorship program. As I get ready to work with a mentor, what resources do you all like to improve as diplomacy players? I'm looking for websites, blogs, podcasts, videos, etc. Thanks!
6 replies
Open
CAPT Brad (1904 D (B))
23 Oct 17 UTC
(+1)
Oklahoma for Native Americans!
Oklahoma was cursed ever since it was stolen from the Native Americans. All the 'white' and 'brown' and 'black' and 'asian' folks (and any other non-native folks) should pack up and leave to texas or some place else and give it back. What say you?
42 replies
Open
Smokey Gem (168 D)
26 Sep 17 UTC
(+1)
Championship Belt Game Series.
France v Austria .
Winner holds the Championship belt.Game id must be posted.
Only the winner creates next game.
How long can you hold the belt.
30 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (60 D)
Fri 12 PM UTC
(+4)
The best thing about HeroQuest
Is this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cx8sl2uC46A
9 replies
Open
brainbomb (62 D)
Wed 08 PM UTC
Cards Against Humanity Heroes
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cards-against-humanity-buys-a-piece-of-the-us-border/
37 replies
Open
Smokey Gem (168 D)
Thu 11 PM UTC
The best way to mange your press and play when you are definatley going to lose.
What is the best way . Roll ovr , influence the winner. spitefull delay ??
19 replies
Open
MajorMitchell (986 D)
Tue 14 Nov UTC
Trump blunders around Asia, returns home to more scandal
Trump blunders around Asia offending allies. Meanwhile Jeff Sessions "cannot remember" what went on at important meetings when "giving evidence". Further evidence of the inadequacy of gun controls in the USA with her another tragic shooting at a School.
12 replies
Open
Smokey Gem (168 D)
Mon 13 Nov UTC
(+1)
The rest of the World Apreciation Thread.
MAKE ROTW Greater Again .
30 replies
Open
Matthewew (93 D)
Thu 03 PM UTC
How do I talk to players?
Am I just missing something. How do I talk to the other players in my game?
13 replies
Open
reedeer1 (90 D)
Mon 13 Nov UTC
A back to diplomacy game
I am just returning to diplomacy, and am looking for 6 people to join me.
17 replies
Open
JECE (1072 D)
Sat 11 Nov UTC
Who wants to play 1600?
http://vdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=32997
PPSC with perfectly divisible pot if we don't draw.
Rulebook press, rulebook civil disorder and hidden draw votes
42-hour phases, so that you won't CD if you check the game once a day
6 replies
Open
Thaneofwhiterun (1055 D)
Wed 15 Nov UTC
Strangest/ Least probable alliances?
What do y'all think are the least likely alliances between countries in the long term?
31 replies
Open
JoJoReference (65 D)
Tue 14 Nov UTC
(+1)
Advanced theory
Who would win in a fight, Alex Jones with a katana, or Obama with a hatchet & shield? No prep time or outside help allowed
20 replies
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slypups (1380 D)
Wed 15 Nov UTC
Replacement player needed for public, non-anon World Diplomacy game
Game: http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=207427
India has disappeared and we need a replacement player. His position is still pretty good, so lots of potential there. If you are game, we'll try contacting a mod to swap you in so that there isn't another NMR.
5 replies
Open
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