Interesting. Like, an out-of-game message, or is it also used for diplomacy?

At PlayDip you can post to Global and check a box that says "Post as Anonymous?". Instead of your country name (and colour) posting the message, it is placed there by *someone*.

Chat groups with multiple players. If anyone's played Subterfuge, I would love something like their chat system. (Not very feasible, but we can dream)

Pre game chat too

"Just think of the havoc we could cause, mwahahaha..." -manipulative diplomats everywhere

Yes, playdip lets you send press to multiple players at once. That's a nice feature.

Also, Fog of War, Chaos and Versailles would go a long way towards stealing more PlayDip players. :)

How does the subterfuge system work?

On subterfuge, rather than having pre-created chats, you can create groups with any combination of users. In those, it works more like webDip's chats, rather than PlayDip's email system. I think it would ideal, as it combines the messaging to multiple players which is good from PD's system, as well as the (in my opinion) superior chat-style messaging of ours.

Yeah, I've been thinking that the best system is a series of checkboxes for who you want to send press to, with a single chat box like we have.

Well, the BEST system would be like Facebook messenger, where you can easily create and destroy group chats. But yeah.

@ATC I have sometimes used Skype when I played online games with friends. It works great, but plays differently. Large alliances are more easily formed when you make group chats with your allies.

I personally don't think chat groups need to be a high priority, but I definitely and strongly prefer WebDip's messaging system over PlayDip's.

Not to mention the way the map displays orders! Figuring out what happened last turn is a serious puzzle at PD. I actively dislike it.

Fog of war.

The vDip interactive map is pretty awesome. You click a unit, it will bring up some icons (for move, support hold, support move etc) and once you've clicked one, it highlights the possible provinces for that action. Other than the support move being unintuitive (you need to select the province you're supporting the move *into* before selecting the unit you're supporting) it's excellent and extremely well designed. I would very much like to see that over here.

The PlayDip order entry system, on the other hand, is awful. You click on the map and get a list of options (like vDip) but once you've selected that, the rest of the process is done with no feedback to the user outside of a small line of text at the bottom of the screen which you have to scroll off the map to see (convieniently, right next to the advertisements they put on every page), and once you've entered the orders there's no way to preview them on the map. It really makes you appreciate how good webDip's order entry system is :)

I'll echo the sentiment that, while the messaging system itself on playDip is not very good, the possibility of setting up a chatroom with multiple players is fantastic. I used to think that this would result in too many triple alliances, but in reality it's very easy to say one thing in a 3-way chat while turning the other two against one another in the 2-way chats. I'd love to see it added to webDip.

Variants... Fog of War would be awesome here, but that's obviously really difficult. PlayDip doesn't actually have Chaos - they have another variant that they named 'Chaos' which is actually the variant 1897 - but regardless, Chaos is quite fun. I've already proposed a variant rotation to the mods & Zultar, so I guess we'll see whether that gets accepted.

vDip's concede button would be a great addition for 1v1 games.

Oh, speaking of conceding.. The option to propose a draw with a selected number of players (out of the current survivors) is interesting. It prevents dragging out the game and presumable results in more 2-way draws (which would otherwise have been 3-way draws). I'm not sure whether the option is desired, but it's something to think about.

Selecting multiple message recipients and the ability to press anonymously would be great.

Non-DIAS (proposing draws that do not include all players) are not good for the game at all. They massively reduce the ability of any player to solo, because they essentially become a diplomatic tool against alliances - if you can't find a way to break up an alliance, just concede to a draw between them - if neither wants to solo, then you'd end up losing anyway, and if one of them does want to solo then their holdout broadcasts that intention to everyone on the board, including their ally. The result is that the player who wants to solo has to concede to a draw to avoid being stabbed, and so 2-way draws and alliances that never break begin to dominate the meta - people realise that soloing becomes pretty close to impossible and start aiming for the next best thing (which has also become much easier to achieve).

@Meme: That's what I was afraid of. I was actually thinking of using it that way myself as well (to prevent solos by others).

Group chat just sounds like more work.

Oh, I personally sometimes appreciate that the chat of PlayDip opens in a seperate pop-up window. I can position that over my Outlook at work so it may look to the untrained eye like I'm emailing a colleague. That doesn't work with WebDip's map right underneath.

Many of PlayDip's features are simply interesting/different rather then 'better'.

Having the ability to propose draws that you're not a part of is a different take in that you can use it to call bluffs on two-person alliances "going for 2WD's" when you feel pretty confident one of the players is a solo-or-bust type. Helps shake things up.

The anonymous chat box is neat in terms of spreading misinformation and influencing public opinion. It takes some effort to be able to use skillfully as the inclination is to assume everything that's anonymous is bullshit, but that doesn't necessarily need to be the case and sometimes it's simply used to shine a light on something that you prefer not to be known as the light shiner (especially if it's shining on your ally). Ability to immediately forward a message if you like is also something that people may or may not enjoy.

While these above items are novelty items that people may or may not like, there are a few features i really feel are really nice to have and miss when playing over here.

Big fan of the email notifications. There's times where i feel it very beneficial to being responsive to a player that's not always easy to get ahold of and it's a pain having to log on continually so as to not miss said person. Equally nice for notifications of game starts and round turnovers.

I also like the group messaging. If you're going to form 3+ person alliances it only makes sense to be able to talk as a group.

I also like the double length first rounds. Back in my "pre-Dad" days when i had more time on my hands i used to really enjoy playing the 12 hour games for the instant gratification of it all. I've tried it here but it just doesn't work so good, by the time you realize the game has started half the first round is already gone. 12 hour games are more feasible when you have that 24 hour first round.

I also really appreciate how searchable everything is over there. Advanced searching games by type/player name/multiple-player names (including myself), advanced searches through forum archives, comparing player stats side by side, searching through past out-of-game emails, etc.

Oh yeah, and they have this cool thing where they don't show your online/last visited status. Super neat! But since i'm personally always connected in (at least feels that way) and have more then a few times used this notification to my advantage, don't feel you need to change this anytime soon.

No fiedler, Condescending clown & Capt Brad at other sites ?

& no Daffy old MajorMitchell ?

Good things on other sites are:
- A moderator forum where to write about problems. A forum like this one, but that can be only seen entirely by the moderators (so they see all the requests and who answered a particular one), and the players can see just their own threads.
- Email notifications (but it's tricky because of the spam/not spam if you start to send out a lot of mail).
- Fog of war variant. Should be easy to port to webdiplomacy.
- Update chat window without reload the entire page (maps and orders).

I've been using Backstabbr for quite a while. It's got a clean, simple interface which I find very user friendly. The orders are clear and easily legible. Plus, it adapts nicely to mobile, which is appreciated as that's where I do the vast majority of my diploming! Plus it has an email based notification system any time press is sent to you or orders are adjudicated (or if you're about to miss a deadline) which I haven't found on here and is useful (though possibly open to spam...). It also allows you to choose from a series of tickboxes who your press goes to, so group messaging is possible for organising larger draws - or just generally more flexible press!

But I've also found seriously high rates of NMR and CD, which frustrates me, and it's restricted to the classic map (variants are enjoyable now and again)... Plus i really like the fact that on webdip territory changes colour as you secure it, so it actually looks like you're taking over the map :)

On Backstabbr it's also possible to order units to make any move, no matter how illegal (obviously, those fail) which I don't think you can here. That means it is less forgiving to people forgetting how double coasts work... AND "accidental" illegal moves are also possible. But I'm not sure if that's a pro or a con at the end of the day...

Oh yeah a super important one is being able to adjust phase times so they don't progress on weekends. Weekends are hell for me as a debater and I'm sure they are for others too - I can't ask for a pause every weekend so it just ends up compromising my ability to send press and enter moves.

On other sites I can delete (or even edit) my posts when they contain stupidity again.

1) GROUP MESSAGES:
I'll echo the sentiment that this is really great in PlayDip. I was skeptical at first but group messages have been a lot of fun in the ODC.
BIIIG CAVEAT: The messages having different titles creates a frustrating stream of cross-communication and is difficult to review. I much, much prefer WebDip's ability to scroll through a whole chat. I think there are some interesting ways to satisfy both needs. It will be interesting to see what PlayDip does with their new version.

2) NO TIME STAMP and MARK AS UNREAD:
It is really nice to be able to go on to PlayDip and check my messages without needing to reply right away. I really don't get the reasoning behind time stamps in WebDip.

3) DOUBLE LENGTH 1ST ROUND and HALF LENGTH RETREATS/BUILDS
For obvious reasons these are awesome

I'm confused by #2, Yonni. What's wrong with the message timestamps? And, why do you need to reply right away on webdip?

Yonni, Mark as Unread is already an option here. But perhaps you didn't mean it in that way.

ATC, I presume he's referring to WebDip showing when yoy last were online. If you were online but didn't reply to a message, that might spook other players. So you need to reply.

Yup, I'm an idiot. Mark as unread is here. (Maybe editing posts is a good one)

The time stamp is the big one for me though. I get nervous if people can see that I've visited the game but ignored their post.

Right, yeah. Good points.

I dont think there should ever be an option to edit messages in games. It would allow for people to tamper with the history of their relationships, which doesn't allow for a consistent record.

I think forum messages was the implied suggestion.

And of course the often requested live updates to (ghost) ratings.

NO SHOWING WHEN PEOPLE ARE ONLINE. It's already hard enough to have anon/semi-anon games around here without people being able to definitively work out who you are based on who's online when in game messages are sent. I think this is actually really important and I may avoid anon games until it's changed (as far as I can anyways)

To be honest, I personally do like seeing when people were last online. But I do think there should at least be an option to disable this (for anon games).

Agree with S.D. - At least make it an option to turn off when desired.

Yeah, I think really the option is the reasonable thing I would suggest

Coming from FTF, I appreciate the ease with which one can "misorder" on PD. Doesn't appear possible on wD.

"Oh, I personally sometimes appreciate that the chat of PlayDip opens in a seperate pop-up window. I can position that over my Outlook at work so it may look to the untrained eye like I'm emailing a colleague. That doesn't work with WebDip's map right underneath."

This work with wife too!