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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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orathaic (1009 D (B))
16 Mar 17 UTC
(+2)
Glenn Greenwald on the deep state
Is the power of the deep state more dangerous than the Trump administration? https://m.townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2017/02/21/glenn-greenwald-what-the-deep-state-is-doing-to-trump-is-a-prescription-for-destroying-democracy-n2288815
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orathaic (1009 D (B))
22 Mar 17 UTC
(Sorry if i'm far more interested in talking about Capitalism/Imperialism than Mother Theresa... In some ways i don't even think religion is a signifigant power anymore... God is dead?)
pastoralan (100 D)
22 Mar 17 UTC
@orathaic, are you aware that you're making my argument for me? "Communism in Russia was a belief system unto itself, it only promoted atheism as a means to replace it with a belief in the state." In other words, the Bolsheviks promoted atheism in order to maximize their control of people, which shows that atheism can be used as a tool for social domination and oppression just as effectively as religion. That's exactly the point I was making--taken as a whole, atheists haven't been any more committed to freedom and the common good than religious people. They haven't been LESS committed either; religious belief and commitment to freedom are independent variables.
pastoralan (100 D)
22 Mar 17 UTC
"God is dead" never meant that religion was not a significant power. It meant that once belief in God becomes an option that people can take or not take, even the people who make the option to believe in God have a completely different mindset than people for whom God is an inescapable and unquestioned reality. Today, even if you believe in God, you are aware that believing in God is a choice--and so in that way you're stuck with the same burden of freedom that everyone else has to deal with.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
23 Mar 17 UTC
@Pastoralan, no the Bolshiviks saw that religion was a tool for controling people, so they tried to get rid of it and replace it with their own system. Their system was not atheism.

Atheism is merely the lack of belief on god, atheism plus a belief in something is a belief in something. If they had ised a belief in L Ron Hubbard's Scientology, then you wouldn't be making this categorisational error, because you'd see his fantastical fiction as a religion.

There have been no atheistic states, because atheism on its own doesn't make any claims. It can't be used to control people because it isn't a belief system, it is the lack of belief.

But you as much as admit that religion is used to control people. The question remains, is this a good thing. And i would say, sometimes. We know instinctively how to be violent (and sexual, as it happens) but we learn when it is appropriate to be violent. Our instinct is biology, and our learned/conditioned behaviour is sociology.

Without a culture which teaches is to curtail our instincts, to control violence, or in the absence of culture, you see something like Papa New Guinea before the 60s. Whenever you meet a stranger you either attack them or you run away (because they are assumed to be about to attack you). Where stranger means someone not from your village - the extended family you grew up with, plus perhaps a few other families.

Learning rules to interact with others has its positives, it may start small with mutual gift giving (like we do at christmas and birthdays), because if someone is giving you gifts you have an alternative means of interaction other than violence. This is the begining of trade, but it is an important social tradition. So inportan it has survived in our culture (despite, i would claim being taken over by commercialism/comsumerism).

So yes, there are positives to religion, it can facilitate larger groups interacting without violence, a set of rules and social norms to create peaceful cities. Bounds between non-family members, and an understanding of what to expect from strangers.

Now in the modern world we preach tolerance of other religions aswell. This has become an accepted part of much of the world's culture. There are many places you can go without fear of being attacked, and this tolerance is perhaps secualar. It also tries to prevent discrimination based on religion, because that can lead to conflict. But it became necessary because many religious groups have NOT respected others (if the whole point of religions is to bring everyone under one umbrella of social norms, then respecting ithers isn't a benefit to what religion is driving at).

I would still say it has been a mostly positive force in this way. How and ever, when it comes to sexual behaviour, most religions have been used to consistantly control women's sexuality, for about 10,000 years. And i don't think this is anywhere near a good. Of course it is a consequence of patriarchal family structures, marriage where the daugther is sold/given away to another family*, property rights associated with farming and learning about breeding animals which farmers obviously discovered at some point...

It is not necessary to have all of these things in your culture. But to treat women like property, to be traded as breeding stock, requires a clear property transaction (marriage, with its dowrys, or bride-price) and understanding breeding animals is required because otherwise paternity is not something which we can easily know. And who the 'legitimate' heirs are is importat if you have property and injeritance rights.

So farming, on its own about 10,000 years ago, made the subjugation of women and control of their sexual behaviour, a successful (and i would argue possible) strategy for societies to adopt.

And you can see the remnants of this control of women's sexual behaviour in a lot of world religions today. And i would say this is exclusively an evil thing.

*i can't remember the name for this in antropology. But it is distinct from cultures where the make leaves their family and becomes a member of another.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
23 Mar 17 UTC
@"That's exactly the point I was making--taken as a whole, atheists haven't been any more committed to freedom and the common good than religious people. They haven't been LESS committed either; religious belief and commitment to freedom are independent variables."

Ok, i will grant you that, if you categorise people into atheists and non-atheists, you will find that some people are committed to freedom, and other are not, in both categories. And i guess i'm saying you can't generalise all atheists as the same thing, just as you can't generalise all religious people.

In our culture we mostly generalise all Christians, or all Abrahamic religions (people of the book), because they are the dominant force (i'm irish, so with 90% of the primary education in my country controlled by the Catholic Church, i feel dominant is the right word). But it may make more sense to group different religions together - and even then you might say 'not all Catholics persecute women' - whereas to categorise all atheists together like they were one religion (or even a group of religions) is non-sensical. Atheists are not a coherent group following some creed. Atheism is not a system for social cohesion, a belief system which unites people (likes say Satanism in the US). It is merely a reaction to dominant religious forces, a rejection of that system, it does not profess anything as an alternative, as such you can't pretebd all atheists are the same - even more so than all Catholics, who at least have some common ground. The only common ground atheists have is a common rejection of religious controls.

Now you can ask what tules atheists follow, and in the Soviet Union, those are obviously state rules, a reverence or belief in the leader or ideology. In Secular societies, thise rules may be respect for all religions and none, a secular ideology which does respect freedom (including freedom of religion and freedom from religion).

As such, i believe categorising atheists together as a group is misleading at best, and a disingenuous attack at worst.

But i don't see it as an attack, it is a defense against criticism of religion, you have to oresent the alternative to religion as equally bad, in order to protect against a precieved threat. And this is understandable. Satanists at least present an actual threat, the belief in the Judeo-Christian deity, but also in rejecting it as Lucifer did, they believe in freedom from religion as an explicit tenant of their faith, and are using religious protection laws to curtail the freedom of others in order to push the religious right back from a position where they support laws allowing any religion push its views onto others (which is actually what Satanists believe in, if they are not a parody religion, like the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and i suspect they are not...)

But Atheists don't have any central church or organising body. And where they do have something in common, it is religious control which they seek to escape.

So perhaps it would seem Atheists and Satanists may seem similar, but Satanists have a creed uniting them (and so are arguable more likely to be successful in their opposition - because uniting people is one of the positive effects of religion which i have mentioned repeatedly, and atheists, as a rule, lack that).
orathaic (1009 D (B))
23 Mar 17 UTC
@'"God is dead" never meant that religion was not a significant power.'

And that entire paragraph. Interesting, thank you. I've never really gotten any deep understanding of this. Much appreciation.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
23 Mar 17 UTC
(Also, neither was Nazi Germany a Christian state; it was a Fascist state. It killed Jews as outsiders (because that made them easy targets), to take their wealth (because communists aren't the only ones who steal your property), and as scapegoats (to blame any economic problems on, so blame didn't fall on the ideal of the Nazi party).

There was no deeply held religious motivation, even if the Church had made it easier by spending centuries blaming Jews for killing the Christ. Even as the Church retained a position of authority in Nazi Germany, and across occupied Europe and collaborated with the Nazis - that makes the church complicit in the crimes of the Nazis, it does not make the Nazis into Christians.


97 replies
Claesar (84 D)
22 Mar 17 UTC
Please comment on my moves
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=194472

I'd appreciate any tips and comments on my play (Italy). I'll explain my rationale tomorrow.
9 replies
Open
Hauta (1592 D (S))
15 Mar 17 UTC
(+1)
Should America make Russia our
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2017/03/15/ann-coulter-lets-make-russia-sister-country/

Coulter's logic seems to be that if the Dems don't like Russia, then Russia must be good. btw, Dems are against AIDS too.
92 replies
Open
Carebear (95 D)
20 Mar 17 UTC
(+1)
Suggestion: Full Press Communication Games Creation Option
One can always password games. But, it has limitations. What about tracking players communication levels in Full Press games? Assign a Press Level to each player based on amount of communication. Then, add a creation option to Full Press games for a minimum Press Level.
40 replies
Open
Hauta (1592 D (S))
21 Mar 17 UTC
(+1)
Acting AG Dana Boente is gonna have hell to pay tomorrow
Dana Boente, Obama holdover who is acting AG because Jeff Sessions recused himself is the guy who authorized James Comey to disclose that the Trumpov Team is under investigation for ties to Russia. Did not see that coming!
5 replies
Open
Peregrine Falcon (1459 D Mod (B))
20 Mar 17 UTC
Non-SoW Game
Stop being off-topic
39 replies
Open
brainbomb (128 D)
22 Mar 17 UTC
(+2)
John Cena!
The purpose of this thread is just to appreciate everything that John Cena Mill was. His amazingly useful quotes specifically.
5 replies
Open
Hauta (1592 D (S))
22 Mar 17 UTC
(+1)
How can I get some of that Putin money like Manafort?
What's it take to get on Putin's payroll? That guy pays a lot!
Just found out that Manafort owns an apartment at Trump Tower. I presume it's on a lower floor than Trump. Do the wires from Trump's penthouse travel through Manafort's level?
4 replies
Open
brainbomb (128 D)
19 Mar 17 UTC
Is playing with snakes harder?
yo, i got a question.
am i the only one finding it extremely hard and frustrating playing with cobras?
i am not the most experienced snake charmer in the world, but ive had my share of snakes in my hands and reading on their scales.
13 replies
Open
abgemacht (840 D (G))
09 Feb 17 UTC
webDip Player Map!
Post here with your City, Country, and Color Preference to be added to the map!
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zkz1OHicklqk.ky67Va8gNVi0
102 replies
Open
Hauta (1592 D (S))
21 Mar 17 UTC
Treason depends on the definition of Enemy
Art III, Sec 3 of the Constitution defines treason, sort of. It depends on who an "Enemy" is. Back in the day when war was declared by Congress and peace was made by treaty, this was not a problem...
46 replies
Open
JamesYanik (314 D)
20 Mar 17 UTC
Is This Bipartisan?
so conservatives don't like forcing taxes from people, and liberals like social programs. so, how do we fund social programs without taxes?
116 replies
Open
lalaland (100 D)
21 Mar 17 UTC
Greetings, join a live game if you inquire....
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=194403
0 replies
Open
LeonWalras (665 D)
21 Mar 17 UTC
John Rawls!
The purpose of this thread is that if you knew everything about it, you'd be willing to enter it in a random place.
8 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D (B))
21 Mar 17 UTC
Economics of News
I know we touched on this in the Glenn Greenwald thread, but vox has a great youtube video about it...
4 replies
Open
Ogion (5391 D)
17 Mar 17 UTC
(+4)
Meanwhile, massive coral die offs three decades early
While the genius Republicans are screaming "fake news" the real world (I.e., the planet Earth) is suffering hideous consequences from conservative stupidity.
28 replies
Open
brainbomb (128 D)
21 Mar 17 UTC
(+1)
Tomi Lahren suspended from the Blaze for admitting shes Pro Choice
“You know what? I’m for limited government, so stay out of my guns, and you can stay out of my body as well."
The republican love affair with Tomi Lahren has met an awkward crossroads.
5 replies
Open
The Ambassador (149 D)
20 Mar 17 UTC
(+1)
WebDip Hall of Fame covered on DiplomacyCast
Hi everyone, a new episode has (at last) dropped for the Diplomacy Games podcast...
4 replies
Open
SeattleSlew (100 D)
21 Mar 17 UTC
Old and Slow
Anybody up for a classic 3 day phase game? I'd like to give this site a try
gameID=194359
Password: Graves
0 replies
Open
dobreni (1182 D)
18 Mar 17 UTC
how do you think a team game wll be fair? how many teams ?
3 teams
1 Fr+En
2 Tr+Ru
3 It+Au+Ge
24 replies
Open
2ndWhiteLine (3592 D (B))
15 Mar 17 UTC
GB 1 and 2
Since one game is stuck in pause purgatory and the other is an NMR ridden disaster, who wants to start a new round? No RR requirements but I have final say over who plays.
61 replies
Open
gjdip (630 D)
20 Mar 17 UTC
Replacement needed F01
Russia NMR in S01. Replacement much appreciated. http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=194119.
1 reply
Open
Fluminator (324 D)
20 Mar 17 UTC
Climate Change Denial
So recently I've been considering becoming a climate change denier. What are people's thoughts on this? What would be some pros and cons to becoming one?
11 replies
Open
Crazy Anglican (271 D)
19 Mar 17 UTC
"Everyone show up for this school" EoG's
If you want to post here.
12 replies
Open
Tastyjc7 (100 D X)
20 Mar 17 UTC
Join full web dip
I want people to join the game because it's no messaging and it's anonymous so it's just pure 1v1 with everyone! Let's see who is the best!
0 replies
Open
Chanakya. (598 D)
17 Mar 17 UTC
Why are people not playing LIVE games nowadays?
I am back after a long time. 4 years to be precise. But when I left, there used to be a lot of LIVE games all the times. Now, whenever I peek the website out of curiosity, I never find a LIVE game. I tried making rooms, but no one ever joined!

What happened here? :p
Care to brief me a bit?
18 replies
Open
CptMike (2229 D)
19 Mar 17 UTC
Does a tap on our unit cancel their support ?
Let's assume I have 2 units ( A and B ) and I give these orders :
A supports [ Anything to Anywhere ]
B moves to A
Is the support of A cancelled or not ?
9 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (4283 D Mod (G))
18 Mar 17 UTC
(+3)
RIP Chuck Berry
Of all the people that have influenced music in the last 60 years, from the Beatles to Muddy Waters to whoever you like, Chuck Berry will probably be the one they still talk about hundreds of years down the road. A real legend in music.
3 replies
Open
spacecadet (353 D)
19 Mar 17 UTC
is playing with noobs harder?
yo, i got a question.
am i the only one finding it extremely hard and frustrating playing with new players?
i am not the most experienced player in the world, but ive had my share of games and reading on the game.
11 replies
Open
Manwe Sulimo (630 D)
16 Mar 17 UTC
(+1)
Proposed Budget
How ridiculous is this thing???

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-budget-idUSKBN16M1DO
103 replies
Open
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