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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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damian (675 D)
14 Mar 13 UTC
150cc Weekend Diplomacy Club (Take 3)
Wish you could find high quality games, with no CDs? So do I. I want to try and get the 150cc club going again, but this time I have a twist that I think will help it actually get off the ground.
5 replies
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erist (228 D(B))
17 Mar 13 UTC
How would this change things?
Thread for the hypothetical proposal of variants and speculation on how it would change game dynamics
14 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
16 Mar 13 UTC
Privatization
What kind of stuff that is mostly public can safely be privatized? Prisons? Highways? Hospitals? Discuss.
42 replies
Open
jimgov (219 D(B))
17 Mar 13 UTC
EOG - You, me ... and TANKS!-3
Well...Germany royally screwed up what was setting up to be a great game by leaving.
4 replies
Open
2ndWhiteLine (2736 D(B))
16 Mar 13 UTC
(+2)
Hey krellin
Do you know what "yes or no question" means?
109 replies
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blankflag (0 DX)
17 Mar 13 UTC
pirate internet
this isnt really news so im not putting it in my other thread. but who has considered pirate internet and how it could work to get around a tyranical government? precedents are the ussr fax machine network and of course pirate radio.
40 replies
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The Czech (41806 D(S))
17 Mar 13 UTC
Full Euro Pree
So who was everyone?
21 replies
Open
Ayreon (3398 D)
16 Mar 13 UTC
Metagaming or Double account in live game Rusty Fast
A very strange strategy in this game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=112718#gamePanel
where Russia and Austria played as a single player... I ask to the developer of the site to verify the game and the position of the two players thanks.
1 reply
Open
jimgov (219 D(B))
16 Mar 13 UTC
Why full press live games?
I've seen a lot of live games advertised that are 5 minute phases that, once I click on them, are full press. Why? I find it hard enough to get in gunboat orders in 5 minutes once the game gets going. What is the draw to such a game?
9 replies
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Draugnar (0 DX)
15 Mar 13 UTC
WTF? Why the hell would they do that?
More inside...
9 replies
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dubmdell (556 D)
16 Mar 13 UTC
Another suggestion on forum improvements
The forum automatically detects excessive posting and duplicate posting. Can it catch "live game" with a simple update? Provide a message and reroute to the live games thread? In that vein, can it catch various phrases regarding cheating accusations?
0 replies
Open
dirge (768 D(B))
16 Mar 13 UTC
RIP Allen Calhamer
The creator of Diplomacy, Allen Calhamer, passed away last week at the age of 81.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-03-03/news/ct-met-calhamer-obit-20130303_1_games-magazine-game-companies-diplomacy
2 replies
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Petraeus (0 DX)
16 Mar 13 UTC
Join Fast Game Live now!
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=112708
0 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
13 Mar 13 UTC
(+1)
New Pope
Don't know who yet; only know that they've got white smoke. Any last second guesses and, when the word does come out, reactions?
165 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
14 Mar 13 UTC
(+1)
Science Weekly
I'd like a place where we can have serious, high-level discussions on scientific research. To that end, I've shamelessly stolen obi's idea for a Forum series. Please see inside for this week's white-paper, taken from the "Burning fossil fuels" thread.
104 replies
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krellin (80 DX)
16 Mar 13 UTC
Hey 2ndWhiteLine
YES OR NO: "Do bo-sox and jimgov still have blueballs because they miss you so much, or is the answer no because you gsve them their release?"

Come on, pal, it's a simple question! Yes or No! In your world ALL yes or no questions are answerable...so come on, chump!
1 reply
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jimgov (219 D(B))
16 Mar 13 UTC
Fast Europe 25 EOG
Crappppp! Good game, guys. I really screwed up a few orders there in the last few years, but you kept me from getting the solo.
9 replies
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krellin (80 DX)
16 Mar 13 UTC
(+1)
He 2WL
Why are you so obsessed with following jimgov around and seconding his emotions? Are you that hard up for an original thought?
0 replies
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krellin (80 DX)
16 Mar 13 UTC
(+1)
Hey JimGov
Are yo just another government lapdog that believes everything the government tells you?

Why can't you read a scientific paper that *Abge* posted and admit the science is correct, and that maybe your precious government is misinformed?
0 replies
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krellin (80 DX)
16 Mar 13 UTC
(+1)
Hey Bo-Sox
Do you know the definition of PLAGIARISM?

Why do you plagiarize other people's work and post it on WebDip as if it's your own?
0 replies
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Timur (684 D(B))
15 Mar 13 UTC
Stoned Agin!
Why don't we all go back to the old 60's hippy vibe for a game?
(See below.)
35 replies
Open
zultar (4180 DMod(P))
15 Mar 13 UTC
(+2)
Nashville, Tennessee: Anyone lives here?
Does anyone live in or near Nashville, TN?

Also, (Native HOT) Pad Thai food is the way to go, not "American" hot.
When you go to a Thai restaurant, be sure to ask for native hot. You won't regret it!@!
8 replies
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Mnrogar (100 D)
16 Mar 13 UTC
Quick Game in 20 mins
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=112664
0 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
16 Mar 13 UTC
1988 Predicts Los Angelas 2013
http://gizmodo.com/5990791/what-1988-los-angeles-thought-itd-look-like-in-2013

Interesting read....got some of it right...but I still don't have a robot to do my dishes.
0 replies
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trip (696 D(B))
15 Mar 13 UTC
This is a fucking travesty
See inside...
67 replies
Open
FlemGem (1297 D)
15 Mar 13 UTC
(+3)
dog poop thread
Krellin, I love you, but could you please discuss dog poop in this thread instead of in the "nice things" thread?
9 replies
Open
Legilimens (110 D)
15 Mar 13 UTC
Bug?
Look at gameID=111572 , specifically at France's fleet in Piedmont... why is Piedmont not blue, given that it is not an SC?
2 replies
Open
hecks (164 D)
15 Mar 13 UTC
(+1)
Nice things thread
It's a gorgeous late-winter Friday in Maine. There's not a cloud in the blue, blue sky, and it may get all the way up to the high 40s today. I'm in an uncharacteristically good mood, so I decided to start this thread inviting you webdippers to be happy about something.
40 replies
Open
SYnapse (0 DX)
14 Mar 13 UTC
Political Philosophy MOOC @ Harvard
https://www.edx.org/courses/HarvardX/ER22x/2013_Spring/about

I've signed up, anyone else up for this?
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Draugnar (0 DX)
14 Mar 13 UTC
You said it would be easy. No decision like that could possibly be easy if you had empathy. Logical and correct, maybe. Easy, never.

In my case, I would like to think that, being a big guy, I would throw myself in front of the train (and by big, I mean large in stature at 260 lbs), but the reality is I would probably let the train go through and kill the 5 people I don't see rather than my selfish self or the guy who is right in front of me.
Octavious (2732 D)
14 Mar 13 UTC
@ hecks

I know real world doesn't really work in these things, but the fat man scenario is so far removed from a real world situation I simply can't put myself in it.
Draugnar (0 DX)
14 Mar 13 UTC
@hecks - When I first read it I though "simple, put the switch in the middle and derail the train at the switch". But then the doctor with a healthy individual that could save 5 patients and wouldn't be missed came up. I could never actively kill someone to save others like that. If it were "save 5 with one's organs or save the 1" then it would be different than "save 5 by killing 1 healthy patient" It really is a situational awareness thing. If, through inaction, all 6 would die, then my actions will go towards the 5. But if through inaction, the one would live, then the 5 would end up dying.
hecks (164 D)
14 Mar 13 UTC
Well... yeah. That's what makes them thought experiments. It removes them from practical experience, and allows you more freely to explore what you should do, what you would do, whether there's a discrepancy, and if so, why.
Octavious (2732 D)
14 Mar 13 UTC
@ Draug

I disagree. It's a very easy decision. Bloody difficult to live with afterwards, even if you know you made the right call, but easy to make.

Coffee or tea with breakfast, by contrast, is a difficult decision. There's very little in it, and it's easy to make a choice you find, after a few sips, is the wrong one. It's one saving grace is it is so easy to live with it you don't even notice.
Octavious (2732 D)
14 Mar 13 UTC
@ hecks

No... not really. Thought experiements are best rooted in reality. Bits you can look at and say "that just couldn't happen" are distractions, and the more distractions you have, the less you can get out of it.
Draugnar (0 DX)
14 Mar 13 UTC
So, oct...

You are a physician and have 5 deathly ill patients needing organ transplants to live. In walks a healthy completely unattached from society patient (he won't be missed and you will never ever be charged with a crime for his disappearance) who is a perfect match for all 5. He is just there for a routine check up. What do you do?
Octavious (2732 D)
14 Mar 13 UTC
First do no harm, Draug. We are bound by our oaths, and as a physician I would have taken that one.

This situation is fundamentally very different, though. In the original trolley example only you have the power to make the final choice, and only you have any say in the matter. In the hospital example all 7 of us have opinions and views.

The healthy dude is unlikely to want to die (if he does want to die the choice is easy ;) )

The five sick dudes are unlikely to want to sacrifice a healthy chap to save themselves (and if they do then their value as humans falls in my estimation by quite a margin, making the net gain sum rather different)

I would have no problem having a lottery amongst the sick chaps, however, with the loser being killed to have his parts dished out so the others can live. (quite easy :p )
Octavious (2732 D)
14 Mar 13 UTC
*if the sick chaps were also willing, of course.
SYnapse (0 DX)
14 Mar 13 UTC
Draug, this was solved in the lecture. Wait for one to die and use his organs for the other four, lol.

Seriously though, murdering a lowlife isn't what you'd call moral by any means.
ulytau (541 D)
14 Mar 13 UTC
(+1)
What about the fat villain, i.e. the fat guy is the one who put those 5 in the precarious situation with the intention to kill them. Classic supervillain stuff.
Octavious (2732 D)
14 Mar 13 UTC
@ ulytau

Does he have a curly moustache?

@ Synapse

Harvard got it mostly right. The trouble with waiting is that you risk two people dying at once, or several of them becoming too weak to have the operation when the time comes. By using the lottery you avoid this risk and save the most people.

Still, top marks to harvard for trying. I might send them a certificate if they keep it up.
ulytau (541 D)
14 Mar 13 UTC
He has a curly moustache, a top hat, a monocle, a walking stick/sword/minigun, hair braided in little swastikas, 3 horns, 4 robo-tentacles, long black cape a Dollar chain on his neck, he just pulled you a wedgie and clubbed a baby seal. He isn't your father.
Draugnar (0 DX)
14 Mar 13 UTC
Oh my God! Mr. PEanut and the Monopoly Guy are both supervillains! Top hats, walking sticks, monocles, curly moustaches! I am so crushed...
Octavious (2732 D)
14 Mar 13 UTC
Seal clubbing is an important historic and cultural tradition of the good people of Newfie! The villian lives! (Assuming he promises to shave)
ulytau (541 D)
14 Mar 13 UTC
Shave his hair or his facial hair? Careful, it's a trick question.
Octavious (2732 D)
14 Mar 13 UTC
That's a tricky one. Damn it, I want the easy questions back!
SYnapse (0 DX)
14 Mar 13 UTC
@ulytau, reminds me of the plot of Unbreakable; Samuel L Jackson is sat in a wheelchair on a bridge...
patizcool (100 D)
14 Mar 13 UTC
This is interesting. Logically, you turn the trolley to kill the 1, saving the 5. You throw the fat man in front of the train, villain or not, to save the 5. You murder the healthy patient in order to save the 5. Morally, this obviously becomes a different set of questions. I will reflect and answer morally later.
SYnapse (0 DX)
15 Mar 13 UTC
My answer:

The question is inherently loaded with the word "should", and it is this point in which we should start our investigation. The word should carries with it a certain gravity, it implies not only that we are judging the driver, but that there is an answer to the question. What is the "right" thing to do? This suggestion of objectivity is essentially incorrect. To believe in the word should, we must justify an absolute morality, either from God, or from societal values or an inherent (for example genetic) moral code. Yet no such morality exists, as far as we are aware.

Let me first tackle the question of God. It is true that if God exists that we are committed to His values, and therefore have an obligation to save as many lives as possible. Yet even so the situation is not clear. What if the five people were sinners and the one a righteous man? Should the thousands at Sodom and Gomorrah die for the good of the righteous elsewhere? Likewise, if God created the situation, and if He is aware of what our action in this situation will be, is there not a certain fatalism to the entire scenario? Are we to believe that God, like the majority of us, shares a utilitarian value in this instance?

The utilitarian ethic cannot hold true in this scenario, for the consequential view cannot be properly quantified. We may kill a man who was to cure cancer at the expense of five criminals - we simply do not have the information to make a proper decision. Therefore to claim that one was "right" in killing the one person is self-righteous at best. The objective morality in this situation cannot be established without an impossible understanding of the facts at hand, and all future consequences, which as we know is impossible. One thousand years from now, it may turn out that killing the five was the right thing to do - but we have a very limited understanding of the situation in which to decide.

Therefore all that can exist is a subjective morality, or a morality which the majority of persons share. We either believe that the man has the authority to make such a choice or that he has no authority to make such a choice. In the second, all actions can be considered immoral. "Who are we to make such a decision?" you may ask. No man has the right to dictate another man's life. Yet the decision presents itself nonetheless, it is inescapable. We may therefore concede that the driver, in this instance, has the authority to make a decision. He is, we would hope, qualified as a trolley driver, and therefore holds responsibility over what occurs.

Will society judge the driver for killing the one or the five? We don't normally hold people accountable for accidents, yet we may judge them based on our subjective opinion, ala Kant. The movie I, Robot springs to mind, where the main character was angry at a robot for making a moral decision not to save a child, based on sheer mathematics. The protagonist felt that basing such a decision on pure logical probability was unethical in itself. The reality of the outcome of the situation is that the only person who will judge the driver is the driver himself, and he therefore holds responsibility for his own actions. He may decide to kill five adults rather than harm one child, he may judge the persons based on how they look or who they are. Perhaps he would hit five workers to avoid hitting one non-affiliated citizen. Either way, there is no "should" about the question, and therefore I believe the driver is entitled to do whichever decision he wants to do, and will offer him no blame either way, for being the victim of such an unfortunate situation.
hecks (164 D)
15 Mar 13 UTC
@Synapse
Nice Obi-post.
SYnapse (0 DX)
15 Mar 13 UTC
Question 2:
Suppose a bomb has been planted in New York City, and it will explode in twenty-four hours unless the police are able to find it. Would it be right, as a last resort, for the police to use torture to extract information from the suspected bomber about the location of the bomb? Explain why.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
15 Mar 13 UTC
http://people.brandeis.edu/~teuber/torture.html

I'd say yes. It's similar to the trolley problem - immoral to one to save five. In this case, immoral to one who is immoral to others to save tons.

It's ironic that this article was written in 1983 or something (check that). When I first read it and he talked about the gunmen seizing the plane and the bomb in Manhattan I just thought 9/11 immediately.
Draugnar (0 DX)
15 Mar 13 UTC
Morale to torture a suspected terrorist? Maybe. What if he isn't actually involved and you are actually torturing an innocent victom of circumstance? But if he is, sure it is moral, but he will just lie and tell you all kinds of places the bomb isn't knowing it will take you time to check between each and he won't be tortured during that time.
Octavious (2732 D)
15 Mar 13 UTC
What sort of bomb are we talking about? Is this dirty nuclear sort of scale, or are we talking your average nutter and his home made pipe bomb? If the former, and you happen to have a confident and competent torturer on hand, then go nuts. If not, don't.



55 replies
krellin (80 DX)
15 Mar 13 UTC
Inflation
Why do government "inflation" figures always discount FOOD and ENERGY prices....which are the *bulk* of people's regular spending...?

Anyone know why this formula is used?
91 replies
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