Or is it because you believe that their lack of "fitness" means they DESERVE to be in that position?

YJ, if you are 30 years old and are making minimum wage, something has happened along the way to cause this. Yes, these are some examples of people who have physical/mental issues, that will not allow them to go beyond such, but, if someone is getting fired from jobs, drops outof school, etc. then they are working there because they have no market skills.

Since you've twice not directly answered, I'm going to operate under the assumption that you're implicitly ceding the point and you agree that there must be a great deal more to the story than fiscal irresponsibility when it comes to the reasons why the majority of the working poor can't afford a home or healthcare. Correct me if I'm wrong there. I hate to hammer it home like this but I really don't want to have it come up again.


So your argument is now that if somebody who lacks the skills the market values, they deserve the lower standard of living they achieve? Is that what you're saying?

in EVERY system there is a poor class.

YJ, I dont know. I am of theschool, that poverty in THIS country is mostly self inflicted. Keep the word 'mostly' in mind here, and I understand all people are in a different situation, but I still think people live far beyond theirmeans, so that when an emergency does put them in the 'poor house' some of it is their own fault, for their 'eyes being bigger than their stomach'.

I have a very very modest home, which I built by myself, and have no mortgage on. I could easily be approved for a large mortgage, or build a bigger home for myself, but I keep my bills FAR below my income level.

I grow my own food, I fish, I still hunt sometimes (not as much though, and usualy as a spectator more than anything) etc. I do not go out to eat often. Now, I will say I have a nice truck, and nice car, but I paid cash.

So, for ME, yes, fiscal irresponsibility has a lot to do with it, because I am a pretty modest person in my living, and so I obviously judge people from my POV.



People live beyond their means in this country a lot.

OK well strike that first paragraph of my previous post, since you aren't quite willing to give up that ghost yet. Gimme a sec.

You sound like a Dave Ramsey disciple stressed. :)

OK, so your claim is that:

A) every system has a poor class, so we are under no obligation to raise the standard of our own

B) If somebody lacks the skills the market values, they deserve the lower standard of living they achieve

C) People are irresponsible with what they do earn, and live beyond their means.

Is this what you're saying?

A 640 credit ratingis hardly a perfect score, YJ. Considering 850 is perfect, you can have some pretty major dings and still have a 640.

@YJ - I think the problem is we disagree on what that minimum standard should be. Everyone should have a home. Not everyone needs to *own* their home. A rented apartment can be a home if you take pride in it. But owning property is something you should earn, not have given to you just because you happen to breath and carry human DNA.