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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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timdcoltsfan (1099 D)
17 Jul 12 UTC
Team game on Vdip. Grab a buddy and join.
There is a two player team game starting soon. Only a few spots left. Grab a friend and come join and see if you can win with a teammate. This is not meta gaming at all. It is being allowed to have two friends join and play as a team. Stated so in the rules and on the forum on Vdip. So if you like playing with a teammate and would like to play a game for sure to be allies and no issues of complaints. Join: http://www.vdiplomacy.com/board.php?gameID=8986
1 reply
Open
yebellz (729 D (G))
17 Jul 12 UTC
WTA vs PPSC
A frequent debate on this site. I'm of the WTA camp as I disdain the "strong second" PPSC mentality.
It seems that the inventor of the game, Allan Calhamer shared this view, arguing that the WTA objective provided for much more interesting end game drama.
http://www.diplom.org/~diparch/resources/calhamer/objectives.htm
achillies27 (100 D)
17 Jul 12 UTC
I dont know why everyone cares so much... I play both :)
2ndWhiteLine (4652 D Mod (B))
17 Jul 12 UTC
PPSC gets too friendly in the endgame. Diplomacy should be more cutthroat and less of a Little League "everyone wins" bullshit mentality.
Rancher (2158 D (S))
17 Jul 12 UTC
interesting, our famed creator is also personally in favor of a time-limit or "year-limit" game (he does not say whether 1908 or 1910 or what) or even having the winning criterion be 16 centers or even 12 ... which all goes to show that all of these permutations are just variants ... on vdip Oli (Sleepcap) even has it set up so you can alter the number of centers for a win, or cap the year when the game will finish, both of which Mr. Callhamer supports!!
Rancher (2158 D (S))
17 Jul 12 UTC
@achilles - I don't know why people care so much either, I play both as well, you just have to know what you're getting into with either since they have different mentalities once you get to mid-game ...
zultar (3790 D Mod (P))
17 Jul 12 UTC
(+4)
Please do not post variation accusations in the forum. Email the mods at, oh wait.

I find it interesting that certain topics are quite cyclical on WebDip: wta vs ppsc, full press vs gunboat, webdip vs vdip, etc. I thought it is obvious that after participating in one of these once or twice that we would all have the same sentiment that there is no ONE way to play the game and that the point of the game -of any game- is to have fun regardless of whether it is to win, draw, vengeance, provocation, and whatever else.
2ndWhiteLine (4652 D Mod (B))
17 Jul 12 UTC
Gunboat isn't real Diplomacy
Zmaj (1310 D (B))
17 Jul 12 UTC
Yes, zultar, but we can't let those idiots get away with playing their stupid variation ;)
Rancher (2158 D (S))
17 Jul 12 UTC
yeh, but we have to kill time and have small talk, so there is nothing like "beating the horse" ... that's like a euphemism or a euphonium or an emporium or some such thing I think
Rancher (2158 D (S))
17 Jul 12 UTC
@2ndWhiteLine -- wanna play a PPSC gunboat variant over on vdip?
Zmaj (1310 D (B))
17 Jul 12 UTC
(+2)
I'll create gunboat.net. It will have a forum, but everybody will be muted.
achillies27 (100 D)
17 Jul 12 UTC
Lol @ Zmaj.
@ everyone else, zultar is right.
Draugnar (25 D X)
17 Jul 12 UTC
@Rancher - beating the horse... Well, I hope it is a dead horse, Otherwise you are creating a stampede and commiting a criminal act of animal cruelty. And I believe you'd call it euphoria. No wait. That ain't right...

@Zultar - I'd +1 that so many times if I could. That was well said my friend.
2ndWhiteLine (4652 D Mod (B))
17 Jul 12 UTC
Rancher, I prefer 1v1 PPSC :)
Draugnar (25 D X)
17 Jul 12 UTC
LOL! @2WL, I love it! What'she point of 2 player PPSC? To give one point to the other guy or get one point from the other guy? LOL!
Rancher (2158 D (S))
17 Jul 12 UTC
"practice ... we talkin 'bout practice"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI
Draugnar (25 D X)
17 Jul 12 UTC
Practive what? Tactics? Cause you ain't practicing your diplomatic skills or even your gunboat "communication." It's is purely a tactical and strategic game when played 1v1 and that is just a small part of Diplomacy.
ulytau (541 D)
17 Jul 12 UTC
So it's that time of the year again... let me find Eden's emergency doc with apt quotes for recurring threads.
ulytau (541 D)
17 Jul 12 UTC
I'm sorry you don't understand, but given our past interactions, I suspect you don't actually care and are just looking to waste my time. This conversation is considered resolved.
yebellz (729 D (G))
17 Jul 12 UTC
(+1)
Zultar's response is quite cogent

Like a true diplomat, Calhamer chose his words quite carefully. I think one can read this article in many different ways, applying one's own bias and preference.

I don't think he is actually supporting altered victory conditions based on fewer SCs or a fixed end date. That sentence goes on to state "except for the fact that such low victory criteria are unusually subject to threats to throw the game to one country or another". Based on the context of the preceding sentences, it would seem that his point is that the 18 SC victory condition results in an awfully long game, and that his hope would be that the game could be settled quicker by reduced victory conditions. However he acknowledges the fatal flaw in such an approach, in that the game would be immensely affected by such altered conditions.

The map supports many 17 SC stalemate lines. Calling the game when a player has reach any less than 18 would give away many solos in situations that should be draws. Similarly, declaring a winner based on size after fixed period has elapsed would similarly turn many drawn positions into easy solos. Putting a time limit on a game would also have the perverse affect of fundamentally altering the strategy of the game. Players would not need to play toward sustainable positions or those that put them on course for 18, but rather race to grow to be the largest by the time the deadline is up, even if that means taking on positions that would ultimately collapse should the game had continued.

I don't believe that Calhamer is actually proposing these alternatives, but rather in a diplomatic manner pointing out their limitations without explicitly deriding them.
Rancher (2158 D (S))
17 Jul 12 UTC
@Draugnar - "practive", is that related to "proactive" or something?

keepin' it real though, 1v1s are just BS timekillers, nothing more, nothing less, 2ndWhiteLine and I have whiled away many a day with them and are neither better nor worse off for it!
fortknox (2059 D)
17 Jul 12 UTC
(+1)
@Zultar: I think there is definitely the "the way I play is better than you!" mentality, but where I find it the most disparaging is how we rank players regardless of the style of play.

I do believe gunboat and diplomacy are two very different games and should be ranked completely separate, especially because gunboats can run very quickly and there are a lot more 'fast' games allowing people to get many games under their belt (and live games also allow people to win games because of NMR's and CD's which frequent them).

WTA vs PPSC is the same thing. Because a 'strong second' is a mentality, there, it skews how it compares to WTA.

That is why I've always been a proponent of ranking in categories... and a bunch of them.
Really true ranking should be be broken into Gunboat/Public Press, Full Press. From there it should be split between WTA/PPSC, and finally split up between "Short/Live" phases (under 24 hours)/Regular phases (24 hours or more).

We can probably group WTA/PPSC next for a more "federated" list with fewest discrepancies.... but short/regular phases and Gunboat&PP/Full Press shouldn't ever be combined... they is too many descrepancies.

Of course, I've not done the math on any of those to prove it out, just know where the amount of games you can play (live vs normal phases) and 'unique/unfair advantages' (like a person leaving a live game, which gives some an advantage over others) is more common and know how that skews the game.... and that doesn't include how vastly different gunboats and normal press are.

I haven't even mentioned variants or how corruption/cheating is more likely in some games over others... variants are their own beasts, though, and I think should be removed from scoring altogether. It just seems like 'fun' things to play and shouldn't be ranked....

Honestly, it'd be nice to setup a game with a 'rank' flag and a 'non-rank' flag... so you can play games without fear of TGR being affected... it'd probably end up in crazier starts and experimentation instead of the same old, same old...
yebellz (729 D (G))
17 Jul 12 UTC
@everyone
Sorry, I don't mean to beat a dead horse by bringing this topic back up again. I know that this discussion has been had repeatedly, and I think Zultar's response quite lucidly hits the nail on the head.

Anyways, I just thought the article was quite interesting, as it's the word of Calhamer, and I hadn't seen it before. Maybe someone else has cited it before on this site in one of the endless series of preceding discussions, but I had never seen it posted on this site.
Rancher (2158 D (S))
17 Jul 12 UTC
whip! whip! whip!... "moooooo"
yebellz (729 D (G))
17 Jul 12 UTC
I think FortKnox has a good point as well...

Everything is fine and dandy when things are just a game and people are having fun, but when it comes to making comparisons and computing those silly rankings that everyone seems to care so much about, we had better separate our apples from our oranges.
Thucydides (869 D (B))
17 Jul 12 UTC
haha. checkmate, ppsc n00bz
Draugnar (25 D X)
17 Jul 12 UTC
"whip! whip! whip!... "moooooo" " - Rancher

Coming from a guy named Rancher, this quote is priceless!


26 replies
Zmaj (1310 D (B))
16 Jul 12 UTC
EoG: 1234567
An exciting game.
5 replies
Open
Yonni (433 D)
17 Jul 12 UTC
Need sub for triathlon
DILK has gone AWOL so we need someone to take over a FP and GB game. If we can't get one person to do both, then I'd be more than happy to find a different person to do each game.
1 reply
Open
President Eden (2540 D)
17 Jul 12 UTC
Other Posters Appreciation Thread
I mean this to be a serious thread so please don't screw around. Details inside.
1 reply
Open
Tolstoy (2027 D)
11 Jul 12 UTC
(+1)
Roman Legions vs. Mongol Hordes
To commemorate the 807th anniversary of the grand Quriltai which saw Temujin elected as Genghis Khan, I ask who would win a battle between a force of Mongols and a slightly larger force of Roman legions (for the sake of discussion, we will say from the late republic/early empire period) in a head-to-head matchup? Please discuss.
76 replies
Open
emfries (1035 D)
16 Jul 12 UTC
Exercise
Who wants to join me in starting a new exercise regimen? If you are in, post your end goal(s) and/or why you are doing it, and what your plan is.
20 replies
Open
Thucydides (869 D (B))
15 Jul 12 UTC
Is war between Russia and England more or less inevitable?
The Norway-StP corridor is very hard to DMZ. Perhaps conflict will always occur. I at least cannot think of a time in recent memory that they went the whole game without fighting (barring an early elimination of one or both).
24 replies
Open
orathaic (1004 D (B))
16 Jul 12 UTC
(+1)
Surprise and risk-taking...
http://www.freakonomics.com/2012/07/16/how-surprise-changes-your-appetite-for-risk/

When it comes to diplomacy... Any thoughts?
10 replies
Open
achillies27 (100 D)
30 Jun 12 UTC
(+1)
The Tournament Which Shall Not be Named.
Or a better name if we think of one!
85 replies
Open
TBroadley (100 D)
13 Jul 12 UTC
Non sequitur showdown
Each post must have nothing to do with the post above it.
180 replies
Open
oneirovatis (100 D)
16 Jul 12 UTC
question
when i support a unit to hold, can i support with this unit a fleet to move if someone hit me!
for example, i want support belgium from holland to hold, then belgium support english channel to move at picardy! what will happen if picardy hit me at belgium? belgium will help in move or will stay??
1 reply
Open
Alderian (2423 D (S))
16 Jul 12 UTC
Discouraging country based resigns thought...
Webdip uses a country weighting system where the more often you have been a country, the less a chance you have of being it again and vice versa. So how about use that to deal with people that abandon a game because they got a country they don't like?
2 replies
Open
CSteinhardt (6264 D (B))
16 Jul 12 UTC
Mods please check email
Since it's been suggested that one post here when sending one...
15 replies
Open
Sandgoose (0 D X)
13 Jul 12 UTC
(+5)
Today is the big day!
In exactly 13 hours or so I shall be proposing to my girlfriend!!! WISH ME LUCK!!! :)

Any advise for a young whipper snapper?
82 replies
Open
Check_mate (80 D)
14 Jul 12 UTC
ooobydooby, ooobydooby, oobydoobydoobydooby ooobyd
There is a game going on called "ooobydooby, ooobydooby, oobydoobydoobydooby ooobyd".

8 replies
Open
Thucydides (869 D (B))
14 Jul 12 UTC
Is it just because I'm in college or what?
Does anyone else have the experience that the time when gender issues and parity come most the fore is when a coed group of people goes partying together? Shit just happens and you have to make decisions based on that stuff more often than in normal life. At least I feel that way. Thoughts?
36 replies
Open
Zmaj (1310 D (B))
16 Jul 12 UTC
EoG: Great war-3
Damn... I forgot it wasn't WTA.
12 replies
Open
Zmaj (1310 D (B))
15 Jul 12 UTC
EoG: Shoot first, support later
I could have won that one... Italy too...
17 replies
Open
Draugnar (25 D X)
13 Jul 12 UTC
So has obiwanobiwan finally matured and can I take him off my mute list?
Obi need not answer. I won't see it. But does anyone else want to chime in with their opinion so I can decide if it is safe to take him off? I kind of miss his long winded posts, but he got so over the top with his youthful insistence he knew everything I had to mute him or kill him before his 21st birthday, and I thought the former was the better option.
106 replies
Open
GrandVizier (50 D)
15 Jul 12 UTC
How do I report an allegation of "multi"-ing to the mods?
Just wondering.
14 replies
Open
kremen (2 D)
05 Jul 12 UTC
** AUGUST AWESOMENESS TOURNAMENT **
Call for players for a tournament starting August 10!
18 replies
Open
Fortress Door (318 D)
15 Jul 12 UTC
WTA-GB
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=94686
4 replies
Open
Zmaj (1310 D (B))
14 Jul 12 UTC
EoG: WTA-GB-144
Nice draw, guys!
2 replies
Open
NigeeBaby (93 D (G))
21 Jun 12 UTC
Call for Players ..... who don't CD :-)
This currently is a 5-game Tourney with no name

183 replies
Open
TBroadley (100 D)
14 Jul 12 UTC
(+1)
How was your day?
Good? Bad? Normal? What did you do? Where did you go? Did you meet new people, see new things, have a new experience? Vent - both anger and joy.
28 replies
Open
Zmaj (1310 D (B))
14 Jul 12 UTC
EoG: The kids have broken Europe
A draw, but I rule.
10 replies
Open
Anne R (556 D)
14 Jul 12 UTC
Question about points
How can a player have less points then 100 minus the points in play?
5 replies
Open
Yonni (433 D)
14 Jul 12 UTC
Walking Dead 100
Anyone else read it yet?
Note, if you're going to post spoilers. Give a warning and then start the spoiler a few lines down so it doesn't show up on the front page.
1 reply
Open
Thucydides (869 D (B))
02 Jul 12 UTC
King of the Hill-Thread
We are going to play king of the hill in this thread. See rules inside.
40 replies
Open
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