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Speak if you guys want. I know my first comment is: I have no idea how the hell I made this happen by pissing off all 3 of my initial enemies. This is a perfect example of how you CAN make something happen without allies...lol
diplomacy is the art and practice of conducting negotiations between representatives of groups or states. you cant do that without contact. so why the hell are there so many anon no messaging games these days?
Then, Hannibel, you aren't playing gunboat right. Seriously, I suck at it, but even I know that you can read a lot and communicate alot with the moves alone. It's just like Russia build F StP(nc). It tells England "The Russians are coming!" in full press despite Russia assuring England they have a solid alliance. Well, Russia may have supported England somewhere the previous turn (Nwy perhaps) but then turned around and did that build. It's a good indicator of Russia's real intent and that the support was a convenience of the moment to tell a tale hiding his true intent.
The only issue I really have is you only have one shot to tell your tale and can't continually chat and reassure the guy you are about to wipe off the map that you really are his friend.
There are players who are average at chess but masterful at speed chess, bughouse, and variant games. There are players who play the traditional game and revel in being at a high skill level in that game, they then seem to find it offensive when someone else claims to be good at the game by playing a completely different set of rules.
were comparing a sledgehammer to a fine Merlot and trying to compare them and say which is superior and which is inferior. the argument is invalid, there is not much comparison because full press requires tactics based solely on negotiations, gunboat is the absence of negotiation. end of story.
To quote my own profile (Octavious orifinally said it): "Gunboat is a truly dire varient of the game that takes the soul of Diplomacy and pisses all over it. The moves are painfully formulaic, the style of play is so different from the true game that most of what you learn in one form is useless or, even worse, highly misleading when applied to the other, and at the end of the day almost every game is decided by someone who doesn't know a damned thing about gunboat doing something really stupid. The Gunboat varient is only one step more enjoyable that the infamous Pacifist varient, in which speaking is allowed but moving units is forbidden and the winner is the last player to lose the will to live."
Most people play gunboat because it can be done quickly, but is only one half of the game. Yes, you can use the 'hidden diplomacy' of looking at the moves, but once EVERYONE knows that you can view the moves, then it becomes public press without the talking. But if you look at the true setup of diplomacy: there is no dice, there is no cards, it is straight up math (higher numbers beat lower numbers). The reason? Because the game is in the discussion and diplomacy you make with the other players.
Gunboat isn't diplomacy. It is another game. Some people enjoy it, while I think it takes the heart of the game it was based on. I honestly think it is for people that just don't want to do the 'important' part of communicating. They want a fast game they can just zip through and get their win or loss. It is for people without patience... people that want results now. Because of this, it is full of frumpy, emotional people that will NMR and CD once they see things not go their way. It is rife with corruption in that form (NMR and CD), and in anon live games, it is also rife with cheating, as no communication and straight attacking makes it harder to check for meta and multi (or so they think).
I'd not be upset if it wasn't on the site tomorrow.
Having said that, I do understand people enjoy it, so I'd never take it from them. I do, however, wished it was ranked and awarded points different than full press games, because it isn't the same game and shouldn't be ranked with those that take their time and play the game normally...
So all this talk about gunboat makes me wonder about something. Is it the lack of Press that makes gunboat so unnerving for people, is it the high amounts of CD's, or is it the live fast paced nature of it? Maybe all of the above.
I noticed that press games, Live 5 minute games are a rarity except for with noobs, and I couldn't figure out why the live games tend to be mostly gunboats, because in theory there is nothing wrong with a quick game with press that would be speed diplomacy which is entirely different. And yet so few quality players seem to play full press live.
Perhaps people like Gunboat because lying (to their intended victim) makes them feel uncomfortable, whereas simply confusing or outwitting their intended victim (by supporting his moves, etc. before the stab) is simply cunning game play.
@JECE - And how could we know that. You are the player of record on the games. It woild take hours of analysis to determine which were take overs and which you staryed and even then there would be false positives based on yoi buy in potentially being the same unless we looked into the press for notices about nations going CD and stuff. I sure as hell ain't spending that kind of time on it.
jmo1121109: Ha ha, no, of course they count. That's why I've noted down how I did in each of those games. If I join as a 1-SC "Great Power" and manage to gain a couple points I'm happy with my performance. But what matters is points, then, because those statistics you see, and my GR, are completely messed up because I join those types of games.
Draugnar: Exactly, it's all listed, and at the top of my Profile Page. If you don't want to check out those games that's your problem. I'm only concerned with reporting the truth, not with troll like you believing me. ;-)
Do You Hear the People Sing...Egypt Sung For *This?*
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-egypt-court-elections-20120615,0,511695.story LA Times, BBC News, and other outlets reporting Egypt's parliament has been dissolved by their high court while keeping a Mubarak supporter on the ballot for the Presidential Election. Thoughts?
I've seen a number of discussions on the forums recently comparing two positions or ideas that are too different to reach a valid conclusion about which is better. Since invalid comparisons are in vogue right now, I thought we might discuss the classic: apples vs oranges. Go!
So I have a lot to take care of the following days. I need a sitter for about five days or so. I'd appreciate if someone could sit in for me. Please PM me and I'll check if you're in any of my games. Thank you!
For debate: When is a gunboat not really a gunboat?
Hey gang: I accidentally clicked onto a gunboat game and now have no real way of backing out. Others are not really being acquiescent about a Cancel, so it looks like I'm (more or less) stuck. So instead, I'm setting up this thread as a potential discussion spot for gameID=91706. If players are talking here, is it still gunboat?