Oooh let me guess. krellin is saying that obviously I want women to be raped because I'm trying to stop them protecting themselves so obviously I actually hate women. Am I close?

Nah I think he just called you an idiot.

You missed a few pages ago where he asked you if you'd stop and stare at a woman in a sports bra and short shorts jogging if her nipples were hard though.

@ Draug - Yeah, but just because I advocate no one promoting women protecting themselves, doesn't mean I think that's ever actually going to happen. The situation in which no one ever learns about self defense is so remote, so unlikely that it's not significantly different from impossible, and therefore not worth discussing. Stop making it sound as though the self defense message is a difficult one to come across, or is actually in any real danger of disappearing. It's not. For the last fucking time, it has been the dominant anti-rape message for as long as their has been such a thing as rape.

Also I'm sure even without you, your loved ones have heard the message enough.

@youradhere and Eden - Again I point out it only comes up with my loved ones anyhow (and hasn't in a while as all the women in my life are now pushing 30 or well over and know what to do). I agree we shouldn't be publicly pushing it, but to push the idea of self defense and being proactive completely under the rug for *any* situation is irresponsible.

Telling old people over and over to not sign things if they feel at all confused doesn't lay the blame on them when some smooth talking jackass scams them out of their life savings and it doesn't tell the scammer that he is less to blame. But it does offend our elderly to hear it constantly from the news and other sources. This is a good analogy in that this info should come from trusted sources and not be constantly thrown at them.

Found it!

"Of topic....so tell me, Mafiaalligator....woman walking down the street...big tits, wearing tight shorts and a sports bra. You gonna look? By the way...her nipples are hard..."

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/005/545/OpoQQ.jpg

Hahaha. Awww. I mean, I still think the benefit of pretending krellin doesn't exist except when I make fun of him, outweighs the enjoyment I'd get from reading that. But sometimes I regret having him muted.

@PE "I'm pretty sure that from the moment a young girl learns what rape is, she's going to want to learn how to protect herself on her own accord. "

In Mafia's world of silence, the only way a girl learns about rape is to become a victim of it. Perhaps you haven't noticed his extreme silence agenda?

@Mafia -- Question: How old are you, and do you have daughters?

I have taken my daughters to martial arts, and I have informed them quite clearly that is some perv approaches them they are to kick and kick hard with practiced targeting skills. You think I have somehow done a disservice to my daughters? If so, you are a moron, and know nothing about raising daughters in this world.

So what this all boils down to is the assumption that rapists will stop raping if you convince them that it's their fault that they rape? Or rapists will stop if they believe that most men think rape is bad?

We will never stop rape because some people are just born twisted. Cracking down on sick jokes won't make a blind bit of difference. If the concept of long prison sentences or (if only...) rapists dangling from the end of a rope doesn't convince them society thinks its a bad thing, having someone tell them they don't like their joke certainly won't.

It easy to be an armchair liberal with no "skin in the game" and talk philosophy and ideology. MOST of us, though, live in the real world, where there is real violence, and it comes unexpected, no matter how nice you are, and no matter what pretty butterfly thoughts you walk through the day having. I'm a grown male adult, and *I* take precautions - keep my eyes open - when I walk through a dark parking lot at night, or a parking ramp, or whatever. It's called (I know these words are abhorent to you...) COMMON SENSE.

NOT talking about a think does not make it go away, and you have done NOTHING to prove that your silence will be effective in solving any problem. But it sure as hell can be demonstrated that ignorance makes people easier targets.

@youradhere --- Ahhhhh...typical moronic lib response. You don't have an answer to what I say, so you attack. Why don't you try addressing the *specifics* of my statements instead of trying to insult...at which you fail horrendously.

But Octavious, it's more than that. Rape isn't just like serial killings where it's pretty rare and only perpetrated by a handful of irredeemably crazy guys. Rape is EXTREMELY prevalent. As many as 1 in 6 women have been raped. Does that mean there's a handful of twisted sickos who's existence we can't do anything about, are just very very very busy? Or does it mean that maybe it's something deeper. I'm not talking about saying "Oh that joke wasn't funny." and then suddenly a serial rapist says "My god, you're right, rape is bad!" now the thousands of women he would have raped in the future are saved! Hurray!
What I'm talking about is raising awareness of the countless ways in which our culture endorses rape, and calling attention to that bit by bit. It's definitely a long term game. We aren't going to see results next year. But it's the only thing that's going to work. It's not about convincing a handful of rapists it's their fault. It's about denormalizing rape, it's about not implicitly endorsing rape in our culture. That's a big difference.

"In Mafia's world of silence, the only way a girl learns about rape is to become a victim of it. Perhaps you haven't noticed his extreme silence agenda?"

...the fuck? That's not correct in the least. Nothing has come up regarding, for instance, how to handle adult parents teaching children about crimes like rape. That's a necessary part of parenting, imo. And when that comes up, sure, maybe mom and dad offer some life tips for how to avoid getting in dangerous situations, but I *highly* doubt that once li'l Susie learns what rape is that she's not going to want to figure out how to prevent it happening to her without someone telling her. And in the meantime, the emphasis on self-defense *at the neglect of other crucial angles of the rape question* is undoubtedly harmful.

"So what this all boils down to is the assumption that rapists will stop raping if you convince them that it's their fault that they rape? Or rapists will stop if they believe that most men think rape is bad?"

No, what it boils down to is that while it's unfortunately most likely inevitable that rapists will exist, American culture (can't comment on others, but I imagine this applies to Western culture at large) could certainly use some reform to make rape less acceptable than it is now, because it is undoubtedly more accepted than it needs to be.

The argument from sentencing deterrence doesn't work at the moment, btw. That's another aspect of reforming the culture - sure, if we actually hung every rapist after a just trial, rape prevalence would likely decrease, but the fact is that the judicial system in the USA has a rather terrible record with rape.

"some people are just born twisted."

So evil is genetic?
Let's just kill all the evil people and all that will be left will be the good people?

Or evil is acquired randomly at birth?

Yes, this is an 8 page thread consisting mostly of me being extremely silent on rape.

@PE -- Actually, read again -- I believe Mafia advocates SILENCE on teaching people to protect. So, if there is a local rape, and I want to discuss it with my daughters, I must do it in a way as to be NON_threatening to my daughters, so as to not suggest they protect themselves. THAT is the logical extension of what he is advocating. I'm sorry if your logical ability fails, but if he is going to take an extreme stance ("You should NEVER tell someone to protect themselves") then there are real ramifications to that sort of ABSOLUTE statement.

Try again, PE

@Draugnar: Personally, I don't disagree with you. But that needs to stop being the primary narrative surrounding rape.

@Octavius: I don't think of it that way at all. I believe that people are shaped in large part by their environment. Sure, there will always be sociopathic rapists who are twisted and beyond any hope. I'm not trying to reach them.

I'm more concerned about people formed in an environment that implicitly places the blame for rape on the victim. I'm more worried about the fratstar with roofies, who might not be a rapist if those who surround him weren't implicitly ambivalent about rape.

Like Mafialligator said earlier, it's not about posting flyers everywhere to convince rapists, "oh, maybe rape is bad." No one suggests that progress will be easy or quick. It's about actively attempting to change our culture in order to divorce sex and power, which is ultimately the root of rape.

@Krellin:
What's your technique? Do you do one stroke for each time you type "moron" and "lib"? One extra hard every time you capitalize an unimportant word?

@youradhere -- You seem to be the one fixated on self-satisfying. I suspect you are getting off on the rape discussion. Maybe you should attempt to engage your brain and actually reply to a comment instead of fixating on your personal activities. Moron.

"that needs to stop being the primary narrative." Who said it IS? Do you have data to support this claim? Of course not...And please demonstrate HOW the narrative is harmful? You have no data to back up this claim, either

OK, so go read threadID=862505 and see how you want it handled, Thucy... It should have you all up in arms.