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King Atom (84 D)
05 Apr 12 UTC
I Just Realized...
I have enough credits to graduate as a Sophomore...

WHAT DO I DO NOW?
68 replies
Open
Emac (25 D X)
06 Apr 12 UTC
Meireles
What a thunderbolt! It brought back memories of Ryan Giggs beating David Seagate after a long run up the pitch in 99.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgHi3D7OjNs
http://www.soccer-blogger.com/2012/04/05/video-raul-meireles-goal-vs-benfica-chelsea-champions-league-april-2012/
0 replies
Open
Algy (100 D)
06 Apr 12 UTC
April 8th game
we should think a bout the deat down before bedtime if this doesn't go through
4 replies
Open
Algy (100 D)
06 Apr 12 UTC
hey guys
theres a game called guys that would be fun to join:)
3 replies
Open
Thucydides (965 D (B))
06 Apr 12 UTC
PE thinks property exists (as opposed to not existing): discuss
source: facebook
4 replies
Open
Tettleton's Chew (0 D X)
04 Apr 12 UTC
Debt Education for the uninformed
To most people the "national debt" is unfathomable. They need to be educated. The debt is actually millions of individual pieces of paper of various denominations called Treasury Bonds. Who buys and sells Treasury Bonds (the national debt) is quite revealing.
2 replies
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Algy (100 D)
06 Apr 12 UTC
slow news night
alright im getting out of slow news night and whoever the anonymous person who is starting trhat one should switch to the other one that will be coming on in about 3 minutes
1 reply
Open
Algy (100 D)
06 Apr 12 UTC
5 min games now
so hey im thinkin that right now everybody who wants to play a five minute interval game should just join the ones which are up there and then we can get a game going. itll be fun!:)
0 replies
Open
Myself538 (100 D)
05 Apr 12 UTC
New Variant
This sites not as much fun as it used to be. We really need to add another variant. That should spice things up. Any Comments?
13 replies
Open
Riphen (198 D)
06 Apr 12 UTC
Xbox Live Arcade Diplomacy Game
Just a idea i thought of while on my xbox. Anyone else think it is a good idea? If it had 7 player matches and functionality like this website (with 1 day or more turn systems + plus live games) I think I would pay at least 10 bucks to purchase it as long as it was simple but still got the diplomacy feel.
1 reply
Open
dubmdell (556 D)
06 Apr 12 UTC
I wrote a song for you Ava!
Inspired by Sarg's comments in this thread:
http://webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?viewthread=851524
I wrote this song for Ava! I used my friend's twelve string for instrumentation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGkA1eJ2llk
4 replies
Open
Fasces349 (169 D)
05 Apr 12 UTC
Trolling is now Illegal?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/04/arizona-bill-criminalize-online-speech_n_1404038.html

If your in Arizona your no longer allowed to legally troll people. Good thing I am in Canada, and you Americans say we don't support free speech...
14 replies
Open
Draugnar (15 D (G))
05 Apr 12 UTC
If you were to run for President, what would your theme song be?
You know, like Hillary was supposed to have New york State of Mind play when she campaigned in NYC... What would play and would it vary depending on where you were stumping?
17 replies
Open
NigeeBaby (3254 D (G))
05 Apr 12 UTC
You know you've finally made it when .......
.......you're in the top 96% of all players :-)
I feel for the 344 people below me, they must be rubbish !!
I was a 'political puppet', now I'm a 'casual player'
15 replies
Open
krellin (21 D)
05 Apr 12 UTC
FANTASY BASEBALL MANAGER!
Need 1 or 3 more manager!! ASAP. Hit me or Acmac up for league and pw info.
6 replies
Open
rdrivera2005 (1244 D (S))
04 Apr 12 UTC
New Game
My last full press game have finished (and not in a good way with a 6-way draw after a CD) and I want (need) a new one.
28 replies
Open
fulhamish (4035 D)
05 Apr 12 UTC
The Disowned Army
I knew one of these brave men. Unfortunately the proposed ''pardon'' will come too late for him, good news nevertheless.
http://www.forthesakeofexample.com/
21 replies
Open
dubmdell (556 D)
04 Apr 12 UTC
Guitar
Any guitar players out there?
24 replies
Open
Lando Calrissian (0 D (S))
01 Apr 12 UTC
THANK YOU BRANTLEY GILBERT
gameID=84842 go go go
6 replies
Open
MadMarx (30174 D (G))
03 Apr 12 UTC
ABI Championship Series
Still going:

ABIC-G1: http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=76750
ABIC-G2: http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=76751
12 replies
Open
Lando Calrissian (0 D (S))
30 Mar 12 UTC
Craven Country Jamboree
Anyone ever heard of this thing? Looks like the best thing on earth.
http://www.cravencountryjamboree.com/?s=5
2 replies
Open
Sargmacher (0 D X)
05 Apr 12 UTC
Very Good Position 2 Replacements Needed
13 Center Kenya: gameID=82036

7 Center England: gameID=74851
7 replies
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King Atom (84 D)
04 Apr 12 UTC
I Just Thought I'd Reiterate
From a Picture 2 years old...I present to you, a new meme!

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/q592/KingAtom/Thatlldo.png
35 replies
Open
Sargmacher (0 D X)
05 Apr 12 UTC
Good Position Replacement Needed
Please can someone replace Near-East in this game: gameID=83780

The position is good and has room for growth. Please don't let our game be ruined by this 1 CD. Thank you in advance, lovely person!
6 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (247 D)
04 Apr 12 UTC
Those Times When Someone's Opinion Is...Just Wrong...(NFL QBs?)
...as I'm sure mine often is? ;) Well, here's a multi-million dollar example:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/joe-flacco-thinks-nfl-best-quarterback-005500221.html
Yeah...I like Flacco as a QB, I honestly do...but in a league with Peyton, Brady, Eli, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees...for starters...no. NOT the best in the NFL. But...who is--rank the QBs?
53 replies
Open
President Eden (2358 D Mod)
05 Apr 12 UTC
message to all special games hosts who contacted me recently
Apologies in advance for being a prima donna and taking forum space for my personal needs here, but I legitimately let a couple of invitations fall off my messages page without replying in time because of being ridiculously busy.
1 reply
Open
abgemacht (458 D (G))
02 Apr 12 UTC
Is there a Chemist in the house?
I made a model for H3++, but I don't know what that's called.
H3+ is a trihydrogen cation, but is there a distinction between how "ionic" a molecule is?
Thanks!
orathaic (1004 D (B))
02 Apr 12 UTC
i'm more of a physicist than a chemist, but how does H3++ stay together? it seems like it would be unstable, but i don't really understand the quantum mechanics well enough to work out the bond energy... (or have any intuitive idea of how it would work) leaving me with some basic chemistry which tells me WUT???
Siddhartha (1231 D)
02 Apr 12 UTC
Chemistry student right here!
H3+ has two proposed structures: linear and cyclic. Upon analysis (using MO theory and other jargon) you can find that the cyclic structure is a little bit more stable than the linear structure.
Is that what you meant?
abgemacht (458 D (G))
02 Apr 12 UTC
I don't think H3++ is stable either, but, mathematically it's easy to find a solution for, so I'm using it anyway for verification purposes.

Of course, not being stable, it's hard to find a name for : /

@Sid

I'm modeling the cyclic structure. As I mentioned in the OP, if there were 2 electrons, I would call it Trihydrogen cation. But, in the case of only one electron, is it still Trihydrogen cation? Trihydrogen dual cation? It must have a name and, if not, we should be able to make one up that makes sense.
Siddhartha (1231 D)
02 Apr 12 UTC
oh, H3++... I thought you meant H3+.
Let's see... We could draw an analogy to how we name transition metal cations and call it H3 (2), pronounced "trihydrogen (two)". The number in parentheses stands for oxidation state. For practical purposes, you would probably just call it "trihydrogen two plus" though.
abgemacht (458 D (G))
02 Apr 12 UTC
For what it's worth, the paper I'm comparing my results to says that you *may* be able to produce stable H3++ by photoinduced ionization of H3+. While interesting, they never refer to it by anything other than H3++, so it's ultimately unhelpful.
abgemacht (458 D (G))
02 Apr 12 UTC
"trihydrogen two plus"

Thanks. Sounds a little silly, but that's the best I've got so far.
orathaic (1004 D (B))
02 Apr 12 UTC
ok, i guess at low enough temperatures then even a tiny binding energy will be stable, and you can get the single electron shared between three protons. What use t would be is an entirely separate question, and not really relevant here...

But what is the binding energy? do you imagine an electron sitting in the middle (well in a cloud of possible positions with the middle as it's average) and have the three protons orbiting? each repelled by the others and closer to the electron so feeling a greater force of attraction than repulsion?? is that what is meant but the cyclic model?? (sounds more like a spherical model to me; ie having a spherical symmetry)

on an other side-note, what are you modelling it with?
abgemacht (458 D (G))
03 Apr 12 UTC
The three atoms form the vertices of an equilateral triangle. I'm not exactly sure where the electron is, but it doesn't really matter, as all I'm trying to do is a non-self-consistent electronic structure calculation

"on an other side-note, what are you modelling it with?"

I'm not sure I can easily answer this question.

My work is based on the Density Functional Theory using the Kohn-Sham equations. I do a muffin-tin domain decomposition (Slater) and use Green's Functions (Self-energies) to calculate the discrete schrodinger equation H(E)Psi=EPsi.
orathaic (1004 D (B))
03 Apr 12 UTC
yeah, the idea i'm imagining does make an equilateral triangle, though it it has any rotational modes then you'd get something like a sphere/circle...

the rotational modes being less stable i guess, intuitively, and i still have no idea how to do the math on that... poor me, i really don't deserve to call myself a computational physicist.

Hmm, i also know nothing about vibrational modes - like in linear molecules you can get a stretch in the molecule along the axis of the bond, that would make your equilateral triangle which expanded and contracted... no idea if that is possible, but it's a cool thought.

As for the electron, i'm pretty sure i'm right in saying that three protons don't just sit together in a nice pretty triangle without the electron, and the symmetry of the system forces the average position to be in the centre of that triangle - but as that centre point could be an anti-node of the wave equation it may not be occupied at all, thus the average in that case doesn't seem particularly important... it could also be a node, with a huge probability; but again my intuition fails and my quantum mechanics is very weak, so i've no idea how to either guess or calculate the solution.
(the case with two electrons is much more complicated and i wouldn't even be able to claim as little as i have)
abgemacht (458 D (G))
03 Apr 12 UTC
"(the case with two electrons is much more complicated and i wouldn't even be able to claim as little as i have)"

Yes, which is why I'm doing verification with 1 electron first : )

Luckily, it works just fine with H and H2+, both of which do exist.
orathaic (1004 D (B))
03 Apr 12 UTC
yeah, and looking at the wikipedia article, H3+ is stable in the interstellar medium, and thus pretty common in the universe. Which makes it pretty useful to understand, i guess. Once you figure out the H3++ that is :p

sounds really cool, pretty i can't imagine how i'd write a blog post about it...

i mean, a way to use it to educate, of at least interest people... Still i appreciate the thought food!
orathaic (1004 D (B))
03 Apr 12 UTC
do you have the correct answer? i mean from spectroscopy of the ISM you should get data about the electronic, vibrational and rotational modes of H3+, (is that called Ramen spectroscopy, i was really bad at that class...) but if H3+ is common, and high energy photons have enough energy to ionize it, then you'd expect H3++ to also show up in the spectroscopy data if it is stable enough to survive any length of time...

or of course you could look in a lab... but i mean to ask, are you simulating to make a prediction of what should be seen, or trying to use a model to understanding the experimental data what has been seen?
abgemacht (458 D (G))
03 Apr 12 UTC
Yeah, I don't know about all that. It's awfully low-level stuff to spark general interest.
abgemacht (458 D (G))
03 Apr 12 UTC
I'm able to get answers with under 0.5% error compared to the analytic solutions for everything I've tested. Of course, I could be more accurate if I wanted to make a more refined mesh. I haven't compared to actual experimental results; I plan to for Benzene, though.

I don't have much interest in learning about things that have already been observed. I'm trying to make models that can be used to predict the behavior of new devices.
orathaic (1004 D (B))
03 Apr 12 UTC
those analytical answers are approximations aswell right? i mean, the computation is some series with a limit and you only work it out to some number of terms to get the order of your error down...
abgemacht (458 D (G))
03 Apr 12 UTC
Oh, I think I misunderstood you.

Yes, I know about what the correct answer should be based on a couple white papers.
abgemacht (458 D (G))
03 Apr 12 UTC
No, H and H2+ can be solved mathematically exactly.

H3++ is a numerical solution, but accurate within DFT, as far as I understand the paper.
abgemacht (458 D (G))
03 Apr 12 UTC
Well, I mean, sure. My final answer is going to be limited by machine error, but there's a difference between having an analytic solution with only so much precision and having a numerical solution which is inexact before you even plug in for the variables.
orathaic (1004 D (B))
03 Apr 12 UTC
yeah, i mostly understand, but i still think this stuff is really cool, at least when one comes to the conclusion that sometimes systems get so complex you can't work out an analytical solution, and then that nobody can work it out and thus all the maths you ever learned don't contain enough little tricks to simplify it enough, and that nobody knows any better tricks... which is when physicists start inventing new mathematics, (at least that's what newton did, or did he steal calculus from Leibniz?)

and then you realise it doesn't matter, because whether you measure, model or work out an analytic solution, you end up with an error... (and the analytic solution has infinite non-trivial steps, so before computers we had to do these things on paper by hand...)

now that is something i'd like to be able to explain to people and try to make interesting...
abgemacht (458 D (G))
03 Apr 12 UTC
As it turns out, almost every interesting problem can't be solved analytically. Luckily, this is OK for two reasons

1) Similar, non-interesting problems can be solved analytically and can serve as good starting points.

2) Numerical Analysis is very fun.

3) Computer processing power is no longer a rate-limiting step.
abgemacht (458 D (G))
03 Apr 12 UTC
heh

I thought of a 3rd reason while typing.
abgemacht (458 D (G))
03 Apr 12 UTC
Well, I guess this answers that question:

H. Medel-Cobaxin, "About non-existence of the molecular ion H3++"

http://arxiv.org/abs/0805.1796
HITLER69 (204 D)
03 Apr 12 UTC
someone show me how to make LSD :P
redhouse1938 (975 D)
03 Apr 12 UTC
My organic chemistry professor taught the synthesis of XTC as course material. Good times.
orathaic (1004 D (B))
03 Apr 12 UTC
that looks like a really cool paper, and i know that it would go way over my head... (though i think i understood the abstract, oddly enough)

i guess the H3+ has a more stable 2-electron orbital, along with the extra negative charge. I still want to know how you tell me the life-time of the 'non-existant' H3++, i mean, it may be unstable, but how do you work out the ΔE of the bound state, to figure out how long it will last before breaking down into whatever lower state happens to be available? (i'm guessing a good model is still useful, but i don't know about experimental results...)
dubmdell (556 D)
03 Apr 12 UTC
"3) Computer processing power is no longer a rate-limiting step." +1

I skimmed this thread a few times the past couple of days, and maybe I missed it, but why are you researching H3++, and how'd you get the lucky job of doing so??

This is interesting work, abge. I am afraid that I cannot offer much to the discussion as my physical chem profs were so mathematically incompetent, they couldn't finish any problem in class, and I was certainly too lazy back then to teach myself the material. =P
abgemacht (458 D (G))
03 Apr 12 UTC
@dub

I'm not researching H3++, per se. I'm designing a method from first-principle to solve arbitrary nanoelectronic structures problems. I just so happened to find a paper that gave "good" results for H3++, so I was going to include it in my paper as proof of concept. Although, my results for H3++ aren't nearly as good as they are for H or H2+ and, since it's not even a real molecule, I may drop it all together.
redhouse1938 (975 D)
03 Apr 12 UTC
@abge, you said that H2+ can be solved analytically.

-This is the part where I reveal I have a master's degree in theoretical chemistry and allow for a short, but meaningful pause-

That's true, it's some pretty ingenious mathematics, but by analogy H3++ should also be analytically solvable right? It has only one degree of liberty if you assume an equilateral triangle, just like H2+ does, and - also equivalently - just a single electron.

Okay clock's ticking GL.
redhouse1938 (975 D)
03 Apr 12 UTC
*degree of freedom.
abgemacht (458 D (G))
03 Apr 12 UTC
lol

I was getting bad results for H3++ because my atoms were making an isosceles, not equilateral triangle. Fucking geometry.

@red

TBH, I'm not sure. It doesn't help that I don't have access to the paper that is sited for the exact value.

However, I will say this: Solving the Schrodinger equation for 3 atoms is not at all trivial. How would you propose to do it? Within DFT, you can use Plane Waves (approximations), LCAO (approximations), or some sort of linearized muffin-tin scheme (approximations).

Do you know of an analytic form for the 3-body schrodinger equation? I don't.
abgemacht (458 D (G))
03 Apr 12 UTC
Oh, and thanks all for the questions. This turned into a nice practice for my proposal : )
redhouse1938 (975 D)
03 Apr 12 UTC
Can I help you on the access thing?
abgemacht (458 D (G))
03 Apr 12 UTC
Perhaps.

Can you get this paper?

J.W.Johnson and R.D. Poshusta, International Journal of Quantum Chemistry 11, 885 (1977).

I can find it here

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/qua.560110515/abstract

but my university doesn't subscribe to this publication.
redhouse1938 (975 D)
03 Apr 12 UTC
(+1)
Can't seem to get it either, I'll ask my professor tomorrow, don't worry.
abgemacht (458 D (G))
03 Apr 12 UTC
(+1)
Thanks, but don't kill yourself trying to get it. I'd be interested to see how they calculate it, but, ultimately, it's not that important.
Ethanol (1719 D)
03 Apr 12 UTC
hey there. funny to see that the percentage of nature scientist is much higher here then in the world out there ^^

i didnt had the access as well. but with old papers its often like this.
but you could try asking the authors (if still existing) or people who now sit at the same institute.

years ago one had to write a postcard to get access to a paper. so try it the medium old way and write an email ;)
Ethanol (1719 D)
04 Apr 12 UTC
Your lucky, i could get the paper

Where to send it? the webdipmod mail adress?
abgemacht (458 D (G))
04 Apr 12 UTC
Thanks!

Can you send it to abgemacht11235@gmail.com
Gobbledydook (100 D (B))
04 Apr 12 UTC
Oh wow I managed to get it too.
Gobbledydook (100 D (B))
04 Apr 12 UTC
I sent it to you. The University of Melbourne does have a large subscription :)
abgemacht (458 D (G))
04 Apr 12 UTC
Thanks!

I'll let ya'll know what I find out.
Ethanol (1719 D)
05 Apr 12 UTC
okay so you already got it.
University of Cottbus not, but this paper we got ;D


42 replies
Chanakya. (645 D)
05 Apr 12 UTC
EOG:gameID=85172
I Personally didnt liked England, older france and New France for leaving the game , Moreover Italy is highly critisized. I think Austria played good and Germany is very good for me or its Non Aggression!
5 replies
Open
butterhead (100 D)
05 Apr 12 UTC
ava was right!
Mute thread is being used a lot for me now.
30 replies
Open
Hyperion (1060 D)
04 Apr 12 UTC
What does an economic crisis mean to you?
Just curious.. what do you think when you hear the distant term "economic crisis" on television, the news, or from the general population?

I'm just a student getting through my miserable life, searching for motivation in this supposedly upcoming damned world.
160 replies
Open
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