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I worked well with Italy until around 1911 to eliminate Turkey, but apparently he got impatient with my waiting out the draw and moved on me. Russia decided to take a piece of me at the same time, which ultimately meant I was disinclined to help him with Italy turned on him.
I mostly forted up the rest of the game.
I assume I wasn't eliminated - or, specifically, why otheres voted draw - because France and Germany weren't thrilled by a 15 SC Italy, since neither of them were in a position to take a piece of me, and Italy wasn't in a position to ensure I wouldn't be letting someone past his lines on my way out.
You were the last draw vote, jmeyersd, so you tell *me* - I had my draw vote up for awhile, and Italy had his up for game-years. I *expected* a move on me several times, but with you crowding the border, it would have been a risky move on his part
EOG: I had fun playing defense during this game, but I was just hoping alliances would collapse so I could get back on my feet. Unfortunately that never happened. I'm also not sure while Babak left Austria in the draw.
@stratagos: I voted draw when I saw France had voted. I was offering support to Italy into VIE for several turns. Admittedly, I might have discounted the possibility that Italy was worried about me breaking through too quickly, but my perspective was that Italy needed that support to break your defense more efficiently. And I was certainly no solo threat, especially after I disbanded my 3rd fleet. But I guess I can see why Italy thought differently (maybe). I'll be interested to see his take on it.
I voted draw because Italy had had his up for years without making any real moves against Austria. I had hoped he would have taken you out but I was honestly more worried about Germany seeing Italy move all east trying to take me out. I saw him as a bigger solo threat. I will write more about the game as a whole later.
Anyway, I enjoyed this game but felt I kind of had it easy. 1901 a vacant channel, no move to BUR or RUH from Germany and both E and G show supports to my first year moves. Things were looking up. Went after E as he was most open and got lucky that he didn't bother defending me. Likely PE hedged his bets and figured I was going to WAL and that he might build and defend me. Instead I got LON and Germany got NTH.
England feel quickly and I got a good position in the North Sea. germany has stabbed by this point and he and Russia seem to have something going on. I set up a quasi-stalemate only to have Italy shoot for Marseilles and succeed. Things were starting to unravel for me.
Somehow I got Italy out but Germany was in Paris. Also somehow Germany and Russia started fighting. To the extent I got my home SCs back and made good inroads to Germany. I thought I had a chance to solo.
Germany's outstanding defense and Italy's new aggression made me go set up a quick stalemate at MAO, one that italy likely didn't expect, and also try and make peace with Germany.
Germany and I trade some centres and get ready to set up a stalemate. Italy lets go so I redirect some fleets in case germany and his three fleets try anything. This was my biggest point of concern.
Italy comes back and I set up a stalemate again. This time I press draw since I can't figure out for the life of me what he expects to accomplish.
Babak, I am looking forward to reading your thoughts. You moved at me and retreated on three separate occasions. What was the thinking behind each?
Lets see... early going, I was not thrilled to see myself as Italy and decided to play defensively and to indicate as best I could that I wanted to be Austria's ally. Thankfully, despite the F Mar build, France moved on England and I could get an army into Syria. Frank did an amazing job holding me back for several game-years where he just simply out-guessed and out-played both me and Austria. Eventually Austria and I broke him down. I had an eye on the French/German situation all game and tried to balance things out. My move to Mar was intended to slow France down and it worked.
I was very happy with Austria, but then after 1908 and like 17 turns of me supporting him into Sev, he just kept supporting Russia and Germany. I did not want a 5-way draw, so I felt the only alternative was to attack him to eliminate him. There were a few chances around 1913/14 where I could have gone in for a few extra centers, but I started to fear the French growth again - so I pulled back. By the time Germany could stand up to the French fleets, he also had too many armies for me to defend against. I felt it a huge risk to take the 4 Austrian centers with the German so over-powering me on the border... I simply had too many fleets down there and not enough armies.
in the end, had G or F given the breathing room, I would have been willing to get rid of stratos (sorry) but the risk of a German solo seemed too high.
good game guys, but indeed too bad it was a 4way instead of a 3way ;)
Lando - to answer your specific question, my concern was as always - the potential for you or Germany to solo. My intent was to balance things. When I saw you had an upper hand in the north, I felt I had to push at you so that you'd be forced to pull back.
One of the occasions (I think I moved one turn too late) I really thought I might be able to shoot for Iberia... my only small glimmer of hope for a solo (the last 3 I needed) was to take Iberia and Mar.
In the end, I kept my draw vote in just as a precaution, not realizing you all would interpret it as me wanting a 4way. But look at my army locations... in order to attack Austria, I needed to also pull back from Piedmont and that would have given you a potentially significant hole. I would also have to risk losing Ukr/Gal/Tyl and that's even without risking Austria giving Germany timely support.
Yeah, I recognized your dilemma which is why I voted draw and didn't just wait and force you to do something. I couldn't tell at the end what your final pull-back was about, though. Maybe a signal to not draw but I took it as one to draw.
Also, there was a time we were fighting over TUN. I let go hoping you would see it as a signal for a three-way. Not much of a signal but I tried.
Lando ... I did wonder why you pulled back. you had a shot and I feared if you took it, then the solo danger woudl be too much. I guess I really needed a sign from germany more than from you.
As for keeping the draw vote in, I really did not expect you BOTH to vote so quickly, I thought I'd have enough time to un-vote if one of you went for it... and I felt it was needed to keep Austria from freaking more than he already was. If he saw me withdraw the vote, he'd probably have gone more crazy against me - potentially handing the game to Germany ;)
I did know that the solo was out of the question after you moved at the right time to block me. had I done it one turn earlier, I mighta had a shot at Iberia.
OK, so it looks like I underestimated people's fear of my solo chances. I wasn't really considering it because France had me totally out-manned at sea, so I would have needed 8 centers to the east without losing any in the west. Maybe I misjudged that., or maybe I just wasn't in the solo-mindset having been fighting for my life for most of the game. My quick recap:
Started an anti-English coalition in '01 with supports to France and Russia. I like this gunboat opening because it typically eliminates the English threat pretty quickly and leaves a relatively weak Russian northern front to mop up afterwards. The danger is getting sandwiched between F/R if you fall behind in growth. It seems to be going to plan but then England collapses much to quickly and France has a massive advantage over me. And his fleets keep coming north. I preemptively take BEL and SWE to get my navy up to scratch.
Try and hold the line with Russia against French incursions...
Italy helps out a lot with his move to MAR. I was surprised F didn't cover that, but not displeased. Take my chance to go on the offensive and maybe try to claim the west, but get distracted by Russia's stab, which thankfully I'm able to counter.
I think this juncture (c.a. '07, '08) was critical. Russia is weak to me, and the east doesn't look like sorting itself out very quickly. I decide it would be powerful if F and I make up and head east, being the 2 biggest powers at that point (I think). I try and signal peace with two army builds, but that's probably not enough of a cue in hindsight. I do offer supports from Paris, though. I'd be curious to see why Lando didn't want to try that out.
My peace offerings backfire and I spend a long time fighting for my life against France/Russia...
Italy's second westward push is a massive relief. I somehow wriggle out of my horrible position and clean up Russia/Scandinavia while France is busy with the green man.
I get delusions of grandeur and try for a solo shot by moving to the Channel. I have grand ideas of convoying BEL-BRE. France anticipates it and the most short-lived stab ever comes to an end.
At the end I held out on the draw vote because I wanted to get it down to 3. I thought that by offering support to Italy into VIE was enough of a signal, and I really didn't consider myself a solo threat. I mean, even if I got BEL from France, I still would have needed all Austria and the Balkans; I couldn't see myself winning a naval war in the north.
jmeyersd... if you go back and look at the board from my position, you'd notice I had so few armies. I would gain the Austrian centers only to lose Sev/Rum/Vie to you before getting any of my fleets into a position to defend on land. I knew you were outgunned in the north, but with the French fleets probably stationed in MAO/Por/Spa etc, I didn't think he'd have enought o fight your navy after you got a couple more builds.
and you two had some friendly builts there near the end which really scared me...
anyways. good on strat for sticking it out to the end. but I do think if you two had not voted drawn, or at least one of you, this game would have eventually settled into a 3 way. I think we'd have made it work.
Hi, Sorry to everyone in the Second Series of my informal gunboat games but could everyone please vote cancel? As per the discussion led by Babak and ulcabb in threadID=803223, it has been decided that all the games must be cancelled and the tournament restarted.
Sorry about this inconvenience. Thank you for your continued understanding through President Eden and Mr. Crispy's replacements.
First Drugs...Then Terror...Now We Have A War On...Christmas??? (Really???)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tks1vqfvO9I&feature=related Jon Stewart--as usual, very funny, very on-point...10/10. Bill O's response: "Well obviously Mr. Stewart is going to Hell..." ...0, fail. But besides all that--does anyone here actually buy this "War on Xmas?" I mean...really? As Stewart says in the vid..."We can't win!"
To Celebrate The End of the Semester...Abortions! Atheists! Heaven! OH MY!
Sorry, I just had to share this...amazing response to that assertion by the Christian fellow... And you know, I've actually wondered about that before, what you do about aborted babies if you're Christian...Dante sticks them in Hell--albeit not to badly--but still...if you agree with the black gentleman...well...how do you justify opposing abortion on PURELY THEOLOGICAL GROUNDS (secular ethics, that's another matter.)
Well, all my friends like Doctor who, so I've taken to watching it...and a friend told me DW was still in B&W in 1966...while Kirk was fighting that hilariously-rubber-suited Gorn in color already? On the other side of the coin...we seem to borrow some TV shows and ideas from Across the Pond...why is the BBC behind tech-wise and US TV behind "idea-wise?" (Are we...or is this just me?)