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@D, it's early yet in the voting; we won't know how representative it is until the liberals come out and vote later. My personal vote would be a B. In one case, it was the cheaters' first offense and so was let go. In another, well, that one was never resolved.
Two unanswered querries from me going back 3 weeks and months. Plus a response saying please don't send reminders. :-( Rather given to be honest. But then again the guys are doing it in their free time so perhaps one shouldn't expect too much.
Sadly I stopped playing games in the site because my experience is neither A, B or C. Look at game 69445 (i can put it up here bc it was judged already). Some VERY obvious cheating, right? took 2 months to have the cheaters banned. All the players except the cheaters complained. Please look at it, don't take my word for it. No excuses whatsoever for not banning those guys right away IMHO.
Answer from the contacted mod after 3 weeks: "I said I was looking into it. Please be patient." Answer from the contacted mod after one and a half month: (First, a lot of information about his private life....mmm...disturbing) "We have to investigate everything. We have to talk with multiple people. We have to prove things." (LOTS of more information on his personal life. His life is a mess, i can feel his pain... really... but this should not be in a personal mail to me!! And btw, he should not be put to decide nothing at all with his life in the emotional situation he is in right now!!!) (Assuring 3 times that the accusers never should receive notice on the exit of an investigation) Former experiences with mods have been really cool, both when agreeing and when not. But this, with the personal mails, were far far this side of the line.
So, I vote F. The site failed to address cheating. entering a gunboat in this site you have around 20 per cent chances of being ambushed by a multi or meta. Most of the times you don't even complain (for complaining I first do a preliminary research of the other players, I take lots of time to send the mods all the data about current and past games to put up a conclusive case so they don't lose too much time).
"Plus a response saying please don't send reminders. :-("
This shouldn't be happening. Can you please send us an email with the cases you think weren't solved.
Of the 7 emails you sent, 6 were solved without issue. The 7th is the one you described. Frankly, you were less than polite when dealing with the mod handling the case, demanding something be done. I'm not surprised he got a little snippy.
B for me. I got one cheater playing three positions at once. In another earlier game, I was sure they were cheating, but now am not so sure. And the mods didn't ban them (yet) so whatever due diligence was made, it appears to be consistent.
I don't get why anyone would be belligernet with the mod handling their case... I may get belligerent in the forums on ocassion if I think someone is expressing the wrong opinion for someone in authroity (I know, I know, you are one of us, but youstill represent poawer, like it or not). But I've found the mods to be nothing, if not polite, when doing their job. They have taken every email I've sent and handled it professionally. I can forgive speed issues knowing how woefully understaffed they are and how they are *all* volunteers, and I think they have done a great job where any of my requests have been concerned.
Of course, I think everyone of my cheating accusations has been confirmed and is usually something where the multi isn't even creative in his player names and, of course, I don't really do live games or gunboats and that seems to be where the big cheating problem resides.
With all the complaints about live/gunboat games, you'd think those clubs that started up would be a lot more popular. I don't understand why they keep failing if so many people really want reliable games.
I know it sounds elitist, but I think playing organized games from the forum is the best way to play. You still ocassionally get a Mr. Crispy/hlfbaked (which still boggles my mind cause Crispy actually could play), but games like the one hellalt just setup in another thread are less likely to have NMRs, CDs, or cheats. I can see how it is hard to get live games setup that way. But longer phase gunboats should be just as easy to setup as normal or public press games are and be much more reliable.
abgemacht, you add insult to injury. Frankly, shame on you. I dare you to explain in which sense can the game I signaled be misunderstood or put into an investigation of 2 months, and please explain my fellow players when had I written something deserving the treatment I received from the mod.
Game 69445. (abgemacht thinks it needs 2 months of proper investigation to see if there is some cheating). GO AND CHECK IT.
Here my offensive mails: 1) gameID=69445 players: #31589 : Aruthas #38711 : TedMosby #38636 : Empathy007 Empathy went suicide against russia and then germany just to give room to turkey (tedmosby) and italy(Aruthas). He died helping them. Then TedMosby had the game won but stopped -he was there all the time though, just barely moving to help italy against germany but without taking the last easy centers to win). TedMosby eventually withdraw letting italy invade him to give Aruthas the game. Please please ban this three players, it is terrible to go 3 hours playing just to lose to some stupid metagamers/multiaccount. The site does not need this people. Thanks. PS: Empathy only have another 2 games, both... helping Aruthas. For TedMosby, this is his only game. He got into another but it still has to begin. 2) (two weeks later) so? No punishment on obvious cheating? 3) (after 10 more days) ....... 4) (after another week and the same mods acting on other more recent cases, even getting into the D33 thing and acting in many waaay less important things) After 4 mails and more than one month, i would love to know why have you not done anything, XXXXXXXX.
Shame on you abgemacht for implying I was rude against the mods and that because of that i deserved the treatment i got on my personal mail. I had a different image of you.
And if 6 of 7 were solved without issue is because of MY EFFORT; i gave you always all the data, links to previous games, and explaining of the accuse.
Explaining in detail illness, marital problems, problem with kids and different economical reasons for feeling down is not proper response. In the same time he used to write me the long ranty mail, he could and should have banned those clowns, period. Neither him nor you ever took a look into the match, anyone opening it can immediately see it was a meta. After this response of you I see I was right on my decision to stop playing here while the cheating problems and the mods attitude don't get addressed. PS: The mails are complete, copy-pasted. Only changed the name of the mod.
@Kind.of.slow - All three got banned. It got handled. So what fi the mods took some time to get it done. It got done. As far as D33 was concerned, I believe they were concerned because that was a more public issue that affects the way the site is viewed by new visitors. although I could be mistaken. And it wasn't like they had to investigate D33. He confessed to his metagaming and took his punishment.
This is like comparing a murder investigation to a car theft. The car was stolen after the victim was murdered, but the cops came across it at a routine traffic stop and the thief took off and they gave chase. So yeah, the car thief got caught before the murderer. that doesn't mean the priorities were wrong. It means the circumstances of the two cases were different such that the thief was easier to catch is all.
Same thing here, only this thief initially walked in and turned himself in (and I give D33 props for that) then was stupid enough to break another law (setup another account) while the cops/mods were watching him.
So, the murderer got caught and executed. the thieve got caught and did his time. And their priorities were just fine. It's just some crimes are easier investigations than others.
Draugnar, I understand what you say. Let me point out however that you should look at the game, because it is true what you say and some investigations are easier than others. THIS GAME was the easiest investigation you can get, is like 10 seconds, maybe 15. About D33, he did not recognized publicly that he was the troll, it was the mods airing all the thing, remember? AND this was not something affecting any game, he did not have the second account in any game with his own account, he did it just to start some trolling in the forums (and he was succeding at that). I really think is more important to ban the cheaters than to punish someone that is just trolling in one thread (which should be handled properly, of course). My opinion, of course. Anyway, you guys check the game i was talking about. It is a flat out lie to tell me they are looking into it (for 2 months!!) while it is obvious for anyone, in 5 to 10 seconds, what was going on. And while it was not resolved, I had to receive completely disturbing and uncalled details about some mod personal life just to tell me to shut up and stay put. Mixed with some lies. And now, another mod comes in and says I deserved it. I posted my messages, for anyone to judge. PS: As I see it, and I grant I might be wrong, the most affecting thing on the way the site is viewed by new visitors is the cheating. Mods unloading all their frustrations and personal real life shit on your inbox is also a no-no in my book.
First, your game... What is obvious to you is circumstantial evidence at best and not enough to convict on. The mods needed more, I'm sure, and had to gather it. As a network admin involved in security at former employers, there are things admins/mods put in place when a suspicion is aroused. On our networks we didn't keep them up because they were a bruden to the servers and the network traffic. I'm sur ethe same applies here. So you put those things in place and start monitoring, which means some turns have to run before you can actually get to the smoking gun and not just the circumstantial evidence.
I know for a fact that the mods *always* give the suspects a chance to answer the accusations, so that takes timne as well. I know this because they have said so, even in this very thread.
With D33, he had already admitted to metagaming, so the tools were already in place and they were monitoring him. Therefore, as soon as he multi'd they quickly new it.
So your outside perceptions are one thing, but reality is something quite different. How would you like it if you came upon a person with a knife in them bleeding to death, so you grabbed the knife and pulled it out and tried to stop the bleeding. then a cop comes up and you go straight to prison without a chance to explain that you didn't actually commit the crime. You were found over the body with your fingerprints on the knife and blood all over you. You were guilty to all outside observers. By your logic, you shoudl go straight to prison or, if the person dies, straight to the electric chair to fry for murder.
@KoS - Send the emails (I would assume you have evidence to back up that accusation of mod misconduct) to Kestas and the other mods. Let them review it. But don't bring it here. It undermines the reputation of the site and damages it when others see these aspersions of yours.
This was not my intention. I was merely trying to point out that most of your cases were handled without issue. I wasn't trying to belittle the time you feel service was unsatisfactory.
Your initial email I think was fine. However, your subsequent emails had a very demanding tone to them. That does not justify the behavior of the mod in question, but it doesn't help the situation either.
I may be mistaken, but iirc, this incident happened when the mod in question was the only active mod on the site. This may help to explain (if not excuse) his behavior.
If you are concerned, you can always ask me, as the site Admin, to launch a formal investigation into one of the mods. If you are not happy with my response, you can always contact Kestas.
I just want everybody to take a breath at this point and take a step back. I agree with Draugnar that some of these comments are now taking us off course and the issues should be dealt with with abge behind the scenes, not publicly. Moreover, the original thread was for a survey of cheating accusations, not for specific grievances. Let's get back to that.
If you are reading this and have submitted a cheating accusation, please go to the first page and vote.
The cheating accusations that I've sent to the Mod have been responded to, if only to say, "it's being looked into/handled." I appreciate how hard it must be to catch cheaters, and the fact that the Mods take a very "due process" approach to the situation and give the accused a voice in the matter.
In the most recent incident I reported the culprit actually came in the forum and basically confessed to cheating, and I've yet to receive an email telling me that there has been a resolution. Sadly, it probably won't matter as this same individual stated that if banned he would simply re-register under a different name and continue to cheat.
It's gotten so bad, to be honest, that I am starting seeing cheats everywhere and jumping at shadows so to speak.
I did report 2 players that joined a game I am playing in currently. They joined within literally 1 minute of each other with what appeared to be a predetermined alliance. The one player confessed to me and another player in chat, the other made up an obviously phony excuse. Even with this evidence the mods didn't intervene. They told me that the players were most likely messing with me. I didn't understand this but the three of us remaining (it was an Ancient Med game) ganged up and beat the snot out of them. So I guess it worked out.
So after three days of voting, we have 22/24 people who think the mods are doing a fine job, and 13 people who agreed that we should not post cheating accusations in the forum. It seems like the mods are doing a fine job, but it seems that a modified response to the accusers who smooth things over greatly.
Was running through some moves on Realpolitik. Why is a fleet in GoB allowed to support a fleet from Norway to St. Pete(NC)? The GoB fleet doesnt touch the North Coast. Is there a different reason for why this is allowed?
Hi, Sorry to everyone in the Second Series of my informal gunboat games but could everyone please vote cancel? As per the discussion led by Babak and ulcabb in threadID=803223, it has been decided that all the games must be cancelled and the tournament restarted.
Sorry about this inconvenience. Thank you for your continued understanding through President Eden and Mr. Crispy's replacements.
First Drugs...Then Terror...Now We Have A War On...Christmas??? (Really???)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tks1vqfvO9I&feature=related Jon Stewart--as usual, very funny, very on-point...10/10. Bill O's response: "Well obviously Mr. Stewart is going to Hell..." ...0, fail. But besides all that--does anyone here actually buy this "War on Xmas?" I mean...really? As Stewart says in the vid..."We can't win!"
To Celebrate The End of the Semester...Abortions! Atheists! Heaven! OH MY!
Sorry, I just had to share this...amazing response to that assertion by the Christian fellow... And you know, I've actually wondered about that before, what you do about aborted babies if you're Christian...Dante sticks them in Hell--albeit not to badly--but still...if you agree with the black gentleman...well...how do you justify opposing abortion on PURELY THEOLOGICAL GROUNDS (secular ethics, that's another matter.)
Well, all my friends like Doctor who, so I've taken to watching it...and a friend told me DW was still in B&W in 1966...while Kirk was fighting that hilariously-rubber-suited Gorn in color already? On the other side of the coin...we seem to borrow some TV shows and ideas from Across the Pond...why is the BBC behind tech-wise and US TV behind "idea-wise?" (Are we...or is this just me?)