Lack of power, even more so.

We Americans are 'free' - but only so long as we behave ourselves in ways pleasing to our masters. Get out of line and you will be pepper sprayed, beaten, jailed, audited, surveilled, and maybe even killed. But so long as we are permitted to watch sports, sitcoms, American Idol, and talking head news programs that define the range of acceptable thought, most will not care.

Those protesters are "free" to sue for damages are they not?

Is that really the kind of system you want? The law enforcers are free to do whatever they want, and if there is a problem it is all settled by a lawsuit after the fact - with the taxpayers (not the government workers actually guilty of wrongdoing) picking up the tab for any legal judgments or settlements? Where is the personal accountability in that?

what other system do you want? No police so police would be unable to do this? A second officer for every police officer to watch him/her to make sure they don't do anything stupid? Several officers are being held accountable.

Here's what is ridiculous about this. There is NOTHING special about the crackdown on the Occupy movement. The truth is, as soon as police are called in, there is likely going to be incidents like this regardless of message? Don't believe me? How about the incident in College Park MD last year? Kids were being pepper sprayed following a game against Duke in Mens Basketball. There was video of a kid getting the shit kicked out of him after offering no resistance whatsoever and after committing no crime other than being drunk. A woman was killed after the red sox won the world series with a rubber bullet in the eye.

Bottom line, OWS "required" police assistance to be broken up. That almost inevitably requires injuries for the reason that violence is a prerequisite to control and break up crowds. These are acts of individual officers, and the situation not the command. If anyone is to be blamed it is the cities that decided to use force to break this thing up, but it is hardly an ideological crackdown

"what other system do you want?"

Something much more like what was at work in the early days of the republic:
http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm

This whole situation is so stupid. Police are overreacting to a group of protesters that have no means of actually getting the reforms they want passed, giving the protesters the moral high ground and the pretense of a conspiratorial cover-up when in actuality it's anything but. *sigh*

I live in New Orleans, which is awesome because every last NOPD cop has seen at least one Mardi Gras, which means that NOPD isn't a bunch of trigger-happy swingdicks when it comes to crowd control.

I don't need to look at your link to know that "law enforcement" was like in the early days of the republic. As a minority I would strongly reject any form of mob justice as practiced in the late colonial and early republic. We aren't living in 100 people towns full of white people required to respect our "betters" any more

And under the founders, that link is very correct, law enforcement as seen today is not consistent with their vision. Then again the realities of our time are very different than theirs.

Tolstoy, why don't you suck you thumb while you act like a little kid.
No where can you simply stop traffic because you don't like the way things go.
Didn't you ever serve in the military and go through the CS riot gas chamber?

The funny thing is there are not any lawsuits because there is a clear law on the books.
The police followed all proper procedures.
Where do you children live? My God no wonder the country is going bankrupt with people holding idiotic philosophies like this.

Another one eats the mute button.
I simply don't have time for fools and lazy occupy idiots.

Please tell me where people who "aren't satisfied" with their lives can bring society to a standstill without facing any repercussions? No where of course.

Idealists who have lost contact with reality are as useless as the proverbial tits on a bull.
If you break a law you pay the consequences.
If you don't like the law then do the hard work of changing it.
If you are too stupid or too lazy to change the law and still complain you are about the lowest form of life known to exist.

You are responsible for your own life so get after it instead of sitting on dead but making excuses for not having what you want.
If you have a college degree and you can't make it in he world's biggest, freest, most vibrant economy it is because of your own like of character, ambition, discipline and creativity.

Now let the excuses from the spineless worms flow.

You are an elitist asshole Tettleton.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiS-k1IFWl0&feature=player_embedded
http://host.madison.com/news/local/crime_and_courts/lawsuit-filed-by-parents-of-grant-county-boy-accused-of/article_95e9d05e-10c2-11e1-bd3c-001cc4c002e0.html

I break the law whenever I buy and smoke pot.
I don't whine when I was caught.
Grow up children.
Life is a game played by adults.
If you want to protest and you are told if you don't move you will get pepper sprayed then don't whine like a European when you get pepper sprayed.
Be an adult American for once in your life.

"I don't need to look at your link to know that "law enforcement" was like in the early days of the republic."

That is good. I suspect most people perusing this threat might not be as knowledgeable as you, though - hence the link.

"As a minority I would strongly reject any form of mob justice as practiced in the late colonial and early republic."

Does this mean you would prefer the same system of 'professional' government police forces which kept order in, say, Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, Apartheid South Africa, and the Deep South under Jim Crow? Government police don't exactly have a stellar track record when it comes to the protection of minority rights - in fact, they are generally the chief instrument in keeping those uppity minorities 'under control'.

"We aren't living in 100 people towns full of white people required to respect our "betters" any more"

I think social hierarchies are (unfortunately) more or less inevitable with our species, no matter the legal situation or community size. You are still certainly required to respect your 'betters' or face serious consequences in modern America. If you doubt me, I double dog dare you to mouth off or otherwise show disrespect to a 'roid-addled police officer. Or a judge. Or a TSA Agent at the airport.

"Then again the realities of our time are very different than theirs."

Some things never change. Those with power will inevitably abuse it at the expense of those who don't have it. We are certainly seeing that today - I think many of their concerns of 230 years ago are just as valid now as they were then.

"Please tell me where people who "aren't satisfied" with their lives can bring society to a standstill without facing any repercussions? No where of course. "

Actually, I seem to recall the Wall Street Bankster scum stomping their feet and threatening to bring the industrialized world to its knees a few years back if they didn't get their trillion dollar bailouts. Were you telling them to suck their thumbs as they acted like children as well?

It doesn't get any worse than when an individual makes excuses instead of accepting responsibility for their own actions.

Victimhood for the masses!

Instead of rioting for bread they protest for starbucks!

Once more unto this speech, dear friends...

Here I go again...

"The mainstream media was declaring continually "OWS has no message". Frustrated, I simply asked them. I began soliciting online "What is it you want?" answers from Occupy. In the first 15 minutes, I received 100 answers. These were truly eye-opening.

The No 1 agenda item: get the money out of politics."

SORRY--NEVER. GOING. TO. HAPPEN.

"Money" has been a part of politics since poltiics has existed...one might argue--and I would--that without money in politics there ARE no politics to begin with, as one of the main functions of government is to secure, protect, move, and regulate wealth...the degree to which a government migth do any of these varies from form of government to form, but they all require money, and money in terms of political machines and whatnot is always integral and essential to the process.

So, I say again:

I have ZERO sympahty for the "message" oif these people, and utterly reject them, their movement, and their so-called "goals" on their own merits--or rather, their lack thereof.

I WILL fully concede, as any decent person should and msut, that to beat or systematically shut up a group of protesting people who are themselves non-violent is abhorrent and utterly at odds with democratic ideals, and it is for that reason that, while I find them and their "message" personally foolish, I am STILL outraged that those kids at the UC campus were pepper-sprayed like that.

But I must reiterate...to ALL you Support OWS people here...

These goals that these people argue for are either incoherent or, as is the case above with their own, stated goal, "get money out of politics" completely at odds with reality and logic itself...

These kids need to take a basic Poly Sci 101 class, and maybe experience some real-world matters, before they argue from platitudes.

My friends and I actually encountered a tiny, encamped group of OWS people today...

WHY they'd want to occupy our piece of shit Los Angeles-wannabe waterhole is beyond me...but still...

The same platitudes, the same rheoric, and my friends had the same response as I ahve had from the start:

These pople are simply unrealistic, or else utterly idiotic people without a basic understanding of what they're arguing for or about, and are utterly embarrassing.

That being said, they should be free to embarrass themselves all they want, so long as they're not harming anyone...as John Stuart Mill put it, my liberty to swing my fist ends where your face begins, to paraphrase...

@obiwan, and 'money out of politics'

There are other systems, world-wide, which do not have AS MUCH money influencing their political system.

So are you saying these are less worthy systems? That any alternative system is worse than the American system?

Just because 'some' amount of money in politics is necessary does NOT mean the system in America is ideal.

(i'm not claiming i know what the ideal is, but i'm claiming that you CAN devise a better system by advocating for less money in politics)

@Everyone else: is there message that unreasonable?

"Get money out of politics" can only be posted by someone with no concept of what free speech is.
Reduce the power of government and you won't have so much money in politics.
Having government interfere in areas it has no business concentrates power and makes it easier for money to influence society.
Duh!