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I define a stab as any broken agreement or deception which leads to a change in ownership of one or more centers. In this thread I'd like to start by opening it up for inpt on how you react to being stabbed. This is NOT a thread about stabbing (just about being stabbed). I'll post my thoughts later in the thread.
Depends on the position. Obviously, trust is lost, so if they say something like "yeah, I stabbed you, but I'm still willing to work together", I'm not going to agree to moves that let them take more of my territory, even if that may cede the advantage to someone else.
If the stabbing places me in a position where I have a minimal chance of survival, my goal is simple: absolutely SCREW the person who stabbed me if at all possible. If that means throwing my centers to another player while I kamikazi on the stabber, so be it. If they whine and bitch that I could have helped them set up a stalemate position, but my perception was that my head was going on a pike anyway once that happened, then there is minimal motivation for me to aid them.
Hell, depending on my level of annoyance I may choose to throw the game to someone else even *if* there is a reasonable chance for survival. One of the things about this game is that the people you play with are *unpredictable*, so if someone assumes that I'm just going to take a stab and be a nice little puppet, watching them froth as things completely unwind for them is the best satisfaction I can get out of the game.
I've also seen the word "stab" being used in the context of simply attacking, I adhere to Jacob's definition. Phase 1) i made an enemy. This is often a good thing. If it happens too early in the game, I play the victim. I talk to other players, ask them to look at the order history, ask them to pity the grave injustice inflicted upon me and ally with them. This works. Phase 2) You keep talking to the stabber. You play desperate. You've been stabbed a billion times in this game, his was nor even the most painful. Make friends, ask for a defensive move (support hold a unit) on his side. That's when you aid the new ally made in phase 1 to gain a terrain that could have been protected by the unit support holding your unit. In fact, to be sure, you attack that very unit with the unit it's supposed to hold. Phase 3 (optional) You explain the stabber that you haven't really stabbed him at all, you just counterstabbed. You explain you're even, that the initiative to stab wasn't yours and you restart your relationship with each other. Since people don't change, you usually cycle into phase 1) again, but sometimes in phase 4) a lasting alliance.
I start foaming at the mouth, steam slowly starts to woft out of my ears, my eyes start to bulge a bit, my body starts to shake, just a little at first, but violently within a few minutes, my muscles start to bulge and my skin starts to take on this green tint that is not quite natural. I then fly into a rage of revenge and put every ounce of energy into killing that person, turn everyone else on the board against my stabber as I hold that person up as public enemy number one, the epitome of evil. There is no tactic I will not resort to, even if it insures my own death, as I seek retribution. Hell hath no fury as MM scorned.
MM's Golden Rule: Do Unto Others As Others Have Done Unto You
So far when stabbed I've been able to counter quite effectively, basically through what Jacob has already said. Look to form new alliances (even with your enemies), stay respectful with the stabber, if the tables start to turn he may be willing to make a more generous peace offering. Try to find a way to stay alive, and then, if you can't.... THEN go into kamikaze mode.
Most times I've been stabbed were 'bad' stabs (imo). They did not guarantee crippling me and let me get vengeance. The only good one I've been the victim of was at the hands of PSMongoose, (gameID=64683) who stabbed me via proxy using only one of his units in tandem with all of another nation as a puppet to absorb my wrath while he steamrolled to victory.
Depends on the situation, sometimes i keep talking to the stabber and make some nice deals. Other times, when the situation is particularly hopeless I curse them out in an attempt to throw them off, which actually does work on occasion.
Sometimes I let another player stab me into an alliance.
Case in point: as France, if I open Maginot Atlantic (Bre-MAO, Par-Bur, Mar S Par-Bur) and England opens to the Channel, it can sometimes be profitable to simply offer England Brest (provided he takes it with a fleet and not an army) in exchange for Belgium. A clear and natural E/F follows.
Being stabbed is hard. Really hard. I tend to have a reaction similar to MM. I get angry and plot every way that I can destroy the perpetrator of the stab. The problem with this is that 1)it rarely works, and 2)It closes the door to the stabber being able to pick a different line of attack.
I recommend staring your reaction by taking these two simple steps: 1) Do NOT respond at all until you have calmed down. 2) Compliment the stabber on making such an unexpected and brilliant move. Stroke their ego a little bit.
i don´t understand those who stab knowing they will lose, I was once defending with a german against england . I was russia. The german stab me and cost me 3 sc 2 to germany and 1 to england . then england started attacking him , I have attacked on the other side and he got erased
I don't know what you are talking about, Jacob, it works for me all the time, maybe you're just not doing it right? Perhaps you're not getting Mad enough, you'd be surprised how effective a bit of well-place anger can be.
In my experience, people rarely respond well to anger. A well-placed compliment can really surprise your foe and make them realize that you are still rational despite their duplicity. Once they realize that, they may be more open to considering future plans which do not include crushing you mercilessly. Often I've been able to turn around a bad situation in this manner.
Unfortunately, some goes can be quite implacable and are immune to the most flattering of compliments. In these cases it my be best to follow stratagos' plan above - kamikaze into them until they realize they should look elsewhere for more centers. The problem with this line is usually the best you can hope for is owning a key unit in a stalemate position.
One key to being stabbed is to just keep communicating. As long as you still have a unit you still have a chance! Another key is to try to get the person who stabbed you to see the bigger picture on the board. It's your job to paint the picture for them that portrays other countries as a bigger threat than you.
I used to be a pretend like the stab didn't even happen and keep working to build a relationship player, but recently I have been trying to incorporate a little anger into my game and it really has worked wonders. You should try it, Jacob.
I think the thing everyone is leaving off is to contact the guys neighbors and make a case on how the stab threw the game into disarray and that an attack on him is necessary to balance everything out again.
Alex, the TD of the Boston Massacre, is trying to get some games set up for Dec 10/11 at Pandemonium Books and Games in Central Square in Cambridge. If you're in the area and have never played F2F before, I highly encourage you to come. I'm going to try to make it. PM me for Alex's contact info.
Hernando/trinity/alppu the Cheater! The fall of civilization -2, gameID=66394.
Sadly this game ended before Hernando/trinity/alppu was exposed as a cheater. Nothing like playing for two months only to find out after the game has ended that the winner was a cheater! Thanks to the mods for sniffing him out.
This thread is just to see how many people will come and slaughter me. Waiting to start an actual thread, and I don't want the subject to be purely political. So, bring all your emotional rants about evil capitalism here, and I'll promptly shut this off and start a new one with a different topic.
A couple of weeks ago Kokusai Asset Management in Japan unloaded nearly $1 billion in Italian debt. The exodus of money from Europe is crippling a decrepit socialist system in Europe that survives on continual infusions of credit from outside Europe.