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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.

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31 Aug 11 UTC

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Build Your Dream Nation 2

While Obis mainly composed of the leaders of your nation, lets take it one step further. Lets see how far we can get in writing constitutions :p

I'm off to bed, might start on this tomorrow

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29 Aug 11 UTC

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Donator Markers

Are the thresholds public, or should I just keep donating until it turns gold?

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29 Aug 11 UTC

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What would happen if...

I don't know, but I've always wondered... What would happen if a state told a federal judge who shot down a law to go get bent and enforced it anyhow? I mean, are the feds going to march on Alabama if they enforce their new illegal immigration law? What could they do besides withhold money?

Invictus (240 )
29 Aug 11 UTC

From what I understand, all the judge did was block the implementation of the law while its implications are studied and challenges are raised. This seems to be pretty sweeping legislation and you need time to figure out how it gels with existing rules at the state and federal level. Also keep in mind this law is only partly to do with Alabama. This is part of a wider strategy to compel the federal government to enforce its immigration laws and halt the tide of illegal immigrants coming into the country. The letter of the federal law is closer to what Alabama wants to do than how sanctuary cities operate, so by manufacturing crises like this those who oppose illegal immigration and porous borders hope to force the government to truly adopting a national policy which they support.

In the wildly unlikely event that Alabama openly defies a federal court order then I suppose quite a number of things could happen. If Alabama is stupid then I suppose Obama could pull an Eisenhower and send the National Guard in, but I don't even think they'll push it to a point where money would be cut off. Again, this is a strategy for shifting national policy, so keeping it ruminating in the courts is part of what supporters of the law want.

President Eden (2750 )
29 Aug 11 UTC

I'm sure there's got to be some kind of precedent established concerning this on account of the clash between federal and state policy regarding civil rights to minorities in the Deep South during the mid-1900s. Might want to start by looking there.

Putin33 (111 )
29 Aug 11 UTC

Yes that's exactly right, the right continues to manufacture crises by knowingly implementing illegal laws to target minorities. Alabama isn't even a border state. This is motivated by nothing but hate. Alabama needs money to help rebuild after their tornado problem and they're wasting money on this expensive racist law. Figures. The federal government should stop propping up this back asswards state with federal money. These wingnuts criticize the feds but love taking federal money.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22685.html

Invictus (240 )
29 Aug 11 UTC

It's not hate to want to have controlled immigration instead of allowing foreign nationals to simply walk into our country. It's also not clear that this is an illegal law at all. States like Alabama and Arizona want to enforce controls on illegal immigration as strict or stricter than current federal law, states like New York and California and Illinois want to have much laxer enforcement.

This issue is in the system now and we'll get a truly national policy out of it in the coming years. Whether that's actual enforcement of existing laws or stricter laws or laxer laws remains to be seen, but the situation now cannot hold.

Putin33 (111 )
29 Aug 11 UTC

The Democrats proposed a national policy, it's called the Dream Act. Republicans don't even want to bring up immigration. They bitched and moaned when Reid wanted to make it a priority, backing out of energy compromise bills in retaliation.

Invictus (240 )
29 Aug 11 UTC

They didn't propose it when they had 60 votes in the Senate and could have passed it.

The Dream Act is amnesty, not a plan to prevent further illegal immigration and not a plan that would effect any illegal immigrant who came over as an adult. The issue is much broader than that and has to address securing the border to prevent more foreign nationals from coming in illegally and finding out some way to handle the millions already here.

SacredDigits (102 )
29 Aug 11 UTC

The National Guard could, and has, come in to enforce the federal law if the President orders them to do so. That has its own difficulties, especially since the National Guard is spread pretty thin these days. It happened in both Little Rock and...Birmingham? I want to say Birmingham. The ugly part of illegal immigration that no one wants to deal with is how the immigrants get jobs...largely under the table domestic and/or agricultural work. Someone hires them, and they wouldn't keep coming over if they weren't getting hired. But the solutions almost always try to prevent them from coming, not preventing the number one reason they come: jobs. There are people that have been caught hiring immigrants several times and still manage to keep hiring more because it's a slap on the wrist, not even that. And if you insulate yourself by not directly hiring them but hiring a contractor who hires them, you're basically bulletproof.

Draugnar (0 )
30 Aug 11 UTC

But even that is just a threat. what if the state called the feds bluff. Do you really think the National Guard would fire on the capital of a sovereign state? I doubt any members of the NG who belonged to that state would and it might even cause some serious tears in the fabric of our union if the NG *did* initiate hostilities.

And I only used Alabama as an example cause it was recent. It could be Arizona or it could be California refusing to let the feds arrest people for growing and selling pot within the boundaries of California law. The point is we have a lot of potential hot topics and states getting pissed at the feds, be it old issues like pot and immigration or new ones like Obamacare.

Putin33 (111 )
30 Aug 11 UTC

Making children prove their immigration status or else be prohibited from getting an education is particularly loathsome and barbaric practice. And these gulf states don't even have a significant number of immigrants living in their states. Mississippi (who tried to do the same thing but thankfully was blocked by a unity coalition of labor, African-American, and immigrant rights groups) only has an immigrant population of 2%. This is pure hate. The gulf states can't stand being shown up by Arizona for being the center of reaction in the United States.

Draugnar (0 )
30 Aug 11 UTC

I have no problem with making children (or their parents) prove the child is legal. Hell, schools are funded with tax dollars. Illegals pay no taxes. Therefore any child getting an education in a public school who isn't here legally is stealing from us.

Putin33 (111 )
30 Aug 11 UTC

That's completely wrong. Undocumented people pay taxes without any expectation of benefits.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2008-04-10-immigrantstaxes_N.htm

Putin33 (111 )
30 Aug 11 UTC

"They didn't propose it when they had 60 votes in the Senate and could have passed it."

They never had 60 votes in the Senate. And how is that an excuse anyway for the Republicans sabotaging energy policy in order to voice their protest against bringing up immigration bills? And the Dream Act is not "amnesty" under any definition of the word, so you don't know what you're talking about.

If you support this shit you really lose all credibility as someone who is reasonable or moderate. Only the extreme fringe supports these kinds of apartheid passport laws.

fortknox (2059 )
30 Aug 11 UTC

With the initial question, there are 3 forms of government: Judicial, Executive, and Legislative. They each have equal power (hence the 'balance of power'). If the state legislative tries to overturn the state judicial, then the governor can step in, or it could go to the supreme court, etc...
I doubt the use of force (national guard) would be necessary, but the President does have that authority if he deems it necessary.

Thucydides (864 )
30 Aug 11 UTC

this is like the nullification crisis i think

Draugnar (0 )
30 Aug 11 UTC

I can't open the link for some reason (it spins forever and ever), but I notice the title says "many" not "the majority". My research shows that the "many" is still a minority considering only about 2 million immigrants, both legal and illegal, filed tax returns last year. Considering there are an estimated 12 million illegals alone, that means most likely fewer than 10% of illegals pay taxes. So your argument fails epically and empirically.

And their expectation of benfits is that they will find their paying taxes gives them a path to citenzship under the United Socialist States of America's new amnesty laws.

So, I can do a google search as well.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/illegal-immigrants-paying-taxes-621300.html

Oh, the page finally came up (geez that took forever) and I read through it. Nothing surprising. Those who work for legit employers and lied about their employability have it taken out of their checks. some file, some don't. Most being construction and farm hands who don't get checks but are paid under the table don't. So your many is still a relatively insignificant amount of income (1.5% of SS's income despite being 3% of the population).

Putin33 (111 )
30 Aug 11 UTC

Wrong.

http://reason.org/news/show/122411.html

2/3 of undocumented workers pay SS, medicare, and income taxes. They are legally disqualified from getting food stamps, medicaid, medicare, and housing assistance. All they can get is ER care and education. That's it.

So your narrative of "illegals" paying nothing but taking services is 100% untrue. But carry on Dobbs.

Putin33 (111 )
30 Aug 11 UTC

"the Internal Revenue Service began issuing identification numbers to enable illegal immigrants who don't have Social Security numbers to file taxes.

One might have imagined that those fearing deportation or confronting the prospect of paying for their safety net through their own meager wages would take a pass on the IRS' scheme. Not so. Close to 8 million of the 12 million or so illegal aliens in the country today file personal income taxes using these numbers, contributing billions to federal coffers. No doubt they hope that this will one day help them acquire legal status — a plaintive expression of their desire to play by the rules and come out of the shadows.

What's more, aliens who are not self-employed have Social Security and Medicare taxes automatically withheld from their paychecks. Since undocumented workers have only fake numbers, they'll never be able to collect the benefits these taxes are meant to pay for. Last year, the revenues from these fake numbers — that the Social Security administration stashes in the "earnings suspense file" — added up to 10 percent of the Social Security surplus. The file is growing, on average, by more than $50 billion a year."

fortknox (2059 )
30 Aug 11 UTC

Those paid under the table, though, are given a very unfair and low pay. Yes, this takes jobs away from other americans who would demand the standard pay, but giving these illegals amnesty gives them the ability to demand the standard pay and the job market is now level.

Draugnar (0 )
30 Aug 11 UTC

@Putin - Funny how your source says 8 million, yet my source says only 2 million total between *all* of the immigrants, legal and iillegal, filed. I wonder whose source is correct.

I actually think, in some ways, we are on the same side. I don't want the illegals turned away. I want them on a path to citizenship (I disagree with the TPers and extreme right on that) and I want the farm and construction companies that hire illegals to pay heavy enough fines to make hiring them not worth it so they will instead pay a fair wage. Put a few major players out of business in each industry and you'll see the others fall into line.

Then we get the current illegals who don't have *other* serious legal issues (sorry, I don't want murderers, or drug mules, or the like from Mexico) on the path to citizenship.

centurion1 (1478 )
31 Aug 11 UTC

problem is if you like your oranges and fruit for cheap ass prices you cant pay them human wages.

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30 Aug 11 UTC

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My policies for tackling UK unemployment

See Inside

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30 Aug 11 UTC

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Immigration

Since Draug's last thread was directed towards government but mentions immigration, I figured I'd make another thread for immigration so we can have that discussion separately.

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30 Aug 11 UTC

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Over/Under on Noda lasting a year

And yet there's no clamor to beat up Japan regarding currency manipulation. Noda is the manipulator-in-chief.

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MrcsAurelius (3051

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30 Aug 11 UTC

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World diplomacy needs one more! 50 min to go. 1 day/phase

Cmon guys we need one more! Please join, and earn the gratitude of 16 others!
gameID=66458

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30 Aug 11 UTC

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gman's law

Inspired by Fortknox's version of Godwin's law and by http://webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?threadID=760957#760957 I have formulated my own for this forum.

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24 Aug 11 UTC

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Apparently I'm "Wrong."

Just because I'm against gays, doesn't mean you all need to get offended or yell at me or anything...

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30 Aug 11 UTC

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Thank god for the mute button

Enough said! Some players are anally verbose

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30 Aug 11 UTC

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Obvious 2v2 Scenario

Check inside.

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27 Aug 11 UTC

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Aussie Rules Football

I've watched a couple of games now and would like to know more about it. It seems like a very interesting mix of football (soccer), basketball, and American football; but WAY better than football (soccer) and basketball.

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30 Aug 11 UTC

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My Partial Role...

Basically, I'd like to rewrite history...and I need help. If this thread doesn't go to the trolls, I'll explain but knowing this site...
Anyways, I'd just like to create a fiction novel based off of what history maybe SHOULD have been...and of course how I think it WILL be...

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Yellowjacket (835

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30 Aug 11 UTC

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Apparently I'm "wrong" too

Just because I'm against King Atom, doesn't mean you have to get all offended and yell or anything.

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29 Aug 11 UTC

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Gin Rickey

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=66656
30

, 24 hour phases, points per center, 10 days to join

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28 Aug 11 UTC

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Feeling Cheated?

Looks like the number of forum cheating accusations has greatly increased. Just to let all of you noobs out there know, the rules have much to say, why don't you read them. If you have a cheating accusation, send it to [email protected] and complain to the mods. This forum is for trolling and other pointless conversations, not to hear you all bitching. Thank you.

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Thucydides (864

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21 Aug 11 UTC

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The Writing Thread

Herein we consolidate all other writing threads. Post your writings for viewing and criticisms here.

236 replies

WardenDresden (239

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24 Aug 11 UTC

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Warden's Story

I'm not sure what limits there are on words per post or anything, but below you will find my short story entitled: Flame's Rest. I'll break it up into 2 posts, as the finished product is 3 1/2 pages in word double spaced. Please comment with any advice, critiques or even shameless bumps. :)

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27 Aug 11 UTC

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Wow. Is there a mod on?

I need to talk to a mod plz? I am about to be unable to win a game because of either Meta/Multi and I am gonna be pissed.

9 replies

Mod

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27 Aug 11 UTC

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Donator icons

Hi guys, I added the donor icons but there were 30 or so people who donated with a different e-mail address than they're using here. If you should have a donor icon but don't e-mail me at [email protected] telling me which e-mail address you donated with.

Thanks again to all who donated, we've just got the 2 year lease for the dedicated host, and everything seems to be going well :-)

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29 Aug 11 UTC

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Live Game

Live Game on 7pm GMT-zone. 10 minutes per move, 50 to join.

Join now!

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Dan-i-Am 88 (358

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28 Aug 11 UTC

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Hey France. . .

FINALIZE!!!!

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obiwanobiwan (248

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29 Aug 11 UTC

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Horton the V, Green Eggs and Hamlet--SEUSSPEARE! (Mix-And-Match Writing Thread!)

So, if you haven't seen it...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3w2MTXBebg

I found it funny (of course) and so did my friends, and we got to wondering...what WOULD happen if the two masters merged? SO--Shakespeare and Dr. Seuss...what would THAT look like? ;) (Feel free to mix other authors, too!) :D

8 replies

thatwasawkward (4790

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26 Aug 11 UTC

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Sweeping generalization about a contentious issue.

Broad statement of subjective opinions masquerading as objective fact. Implication that those that disagree are not only in the wrong, but are subhuman. Stop "thinking", humanzees! Listen only to me! My thoughts are kind of a big deal.

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28 Aug 11 UTC

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My Collaborative Writing Thread

Modelling after the other thread, but easier to follow...
Submissions of 150-500 words. And we'll begin by setting the scene.

We'll figure it out as we go along...

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28 Aug 11 UTC

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Manchester smites you

8-2 and 5-1....Crikey.

Wenger won't survive the season, I think.

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23 Aug 11 UTC

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Partie de haut niveau en français (French InGame Messages)

Bonjour tout le monde,

J'aimerais créer une partie en français avec des joueurs de bon calibre.
Détails plus bas...

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28 Aug 11 UTC

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Accordinly, I Am A Good Leader.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/266520/the-colbert-report-mon-aug-8-2011

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28 Aug 11 UTC

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Cheaterd

Please, investigate the game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=66064 it looks like there are multiple accounts of a same person here. Many users AFK, or making way too stupid moves to belive. I'm talking about a whole America and Turkey with India. Please, investigate, cause the game goes fail because of that.

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27 Aug 11 UTC

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To those of you in the path of hurricane Irene...

...who's preparing for this storm?

37 replies

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