I might be from the same school as acmac10, but ive got a great story about North Korea in the NYC conference.
During the whole conference North Korea had been acting the part by alienating e eryone and just being obnoxious. At the end of their speech they said, "all hail the glorious leader Kim Jong Un". You could hear the facepalms from across the room.

lol benkim...

yeah i did model un in high school and i was north korea in the general assembly.

i also played the part and alienated everyone lol and even had a few of my own ridiculous measures.

you can still do it in college?

Yeah....at some schools it might not be widely publicized, but it's still there...

i remember north korea /facepalm, that sucked we got there a day late though

None of these North Korea stories sound encouraging...lol...

Then again, it IS North Korea, so I guess encouraging isn't part of the deal...

yeah my ethos was - okay i am going to BECOME north korea.

i did my best to mimic their behavior even if i myself thought i knew a better way to achieve what i thought were their aims.

since so little can be known about the inside of their machine, the best you can do is reproduce their output

Sounds like you all read NIS briefings in the morning.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/08/25/all_quiet_on_the_northern_front

I used to do Model UN in high school. My school at the time was pretty good. I went to Nationals when we were China (U.S. the year before). That was cool, we got to use the actual UN building and rooms. For some reason, I never pursued it when I went to college.

I used to go to the same school as acmac10. We had a little diplomacy group there, and the funny thing is that almost all of the members did Model UN as well (me included). And the teacher/supervisor led Model UN as well!

I did it for three years in high school. My school did not take it seriously at all (though I was semi-serious about it) and used the trip to binge drink and skipped most of the meetings. We did the one at Harvard and I was Algeria, Bolivia, and Norway. Very enjoyable times, though it would've been more fun if they chose my subject for discussion (idk how everyone's was, but for me there were two topic areas, we only ever finished one during the conference, and it was a two man delegation for each committee) So the fact that everything I researched was for naught irked me a bit.

I wasn't directly involved in resolutions (because my school left a day early every time >:() but I think its better that way. I like to be more of the mediator in the process of drafting a resolution (hence, Norway was perfect for me haha)

Advice though, don't be a dick or be foolish like one of the above North Korea stories. Spin it as a serious propaganda piece. Not outrageous, but definitely anti-USA. And always be seen with China. So basically, do as Thucy said and become North Korea

yes, because obviously we must be South Korean government officials if we criticize North Korea in any way, shape or form

i do youth and government, but saw the model un group at cona in north carolina

No, you just spout their propaganda for them.

except not exactly

Well, we should all be floored by this one. Putin33's rising to the defense of the most pornographically repressive government on Earth. Because anything critical of North Korea is evil imperialist propaganda, and any information from the Hermit Kingdom is unbiased fact.

More to the point, I wanted to do Model UN in college but was profoundly creeped out by two members when I went to the first few practices. Probably for the best since Mock Trial is much more in line with the intended career. Model UN always looked neat, though.

And if anyone can blather on about nothing for ages just like a real UN diplomat, it's obiwanobiwan. Good luck!

Well, we should all be floored by this one. Invictus bitching about anyone who says anything but malicious lies about the enemy of America du jour. Because everybody must be a blind unthinking automaton when it comes to cheerleading for US foreign policy. The victims of our bombs and invasions be damned.

Opposition to the wickedness of the North Korea regime should be one of the rare things that unites all people. It is you who are the unthinking automaton here, Putin33. How any kind of self-respecting leftist could make common cause with a dynastic cult-state that spends its money on nuclear weapons while its people starve is beyond me.

America's not perfect by any means, but Jesus it's better than that hellhole.

Is America surrounded by enemies? Was America bombed to the stone age? Is America being systematically targeted with lies and propaganda in order to manufacture a crisis over and over again?

No, no, and no. But any disputing lies, no matter how ridiculous, is unacceptable to you.

I'm sure you said the same thing about Iraq and every other country we've targeted.

Blah, blah, blah. Iraq is a hellhole. Syria is a hellhole. Libya is a hellhole. Russia is a hellhole.

Is China North Korea's enemy? Is Russia?

Yeah, the North was bombed fifty years ago after they invaded the South. And the Union destroyed Atlanta and the British burned the White House. And Japan was nuked twice and Russia was ravaged by Germany and Germany was occupied for forty years and the Mongols sacked Baghdad. The fact that a territory had a war fought on it in the past cannot justify the imposition of a cartoonishly oppressive dictatorship as exists in North Korea.

How was North Korea's shelling of those South Korean islands awhile back a crisis manufactured by American lies? Or when the North sunk that South Korean ship? Or the North Korean government's insistence on acquiring nuclear weapons? Or even the steady flow of refugees desperate to get out of Kim Jong Il's insane fiefdom and into China?

You're a fool and don't realize how lucky you are to not live under the horrific kind of government you so naively support. I hope you're alive to see the collapse of that regime and the exposure of their terrible actions.

Lol Putin I for one will never understand why you tarnish your credibility by standing up for NK.

It's one thing to correct someone making a caricature, it's another thing to not admit it might be the worst government on the face of the earth.

It's like a fascist that won't admit Nazi Germany sucked ass - no one takes his other ideas seriously, good or not.

"Yeah, the North was bombed fifty years ago after they invaded the South. And the Union destroyed Atlanta and the British burned the White House. And Japan was nuked twice and Russia was ravaged by Germany and Germany was occupied for forty years and the Mongols sacked Baghdad. The fact that a territory had a war fought on it in the past cannot justify the imposition of a cartoonishly oppressive dictatorship as exists in North Korea."

Except the difference is those wars all officially ended, whereas North Korea is faced with a massive army, backed by the world's only superpower on one hand and the world's second largest economy on the other. North Korea has repeatedly pleaded for a peace treaty and normalization of relations. But the sex slave loving Japanese government and their American masters won't allow it.

"How was North Korea's shelling of those South Korean islands awhile back a crisis manufactured by American lies? Or when the North sunk that South Korean ship?"

You mean the crisis where it was finally admitted that the South fired first? And then the media lied and said North Korea killed "civilians" and then later admitted they were marines?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O33sfN00oDk


Or the crisis where the "North Korean torpedo" was inexplicably found in a shallow area of water that a fishing trawler "just happened" to find (but massive warships with detecting devices couldn't find it for over a month)? The incident whereby while the US and South Korea were beating the war drums, the North offered a joint investigation to look into what happened? The incident where the "evidence" of the North's involvement was torpedo fragments made in Germany, that stalwart friend of North Korea (the official propaganda on this is that North Korea "disguised the attack")? The same incident in which the South Korean defense ministry had said it was a self-inflicted accident for months before they suddenly decided that the North was responsible?

Yeah those incidents. Thanks for proving my point.

"Is China North Korea's enemy? Is Russia? "

They're not friends. China ceased being an ally in 1988 (when they participated in the Seoul games despite the North's call for a boycott of the military dictatorship. 4 years later they completely normalized relations with the South). China allowed sanctions to be placed on North Korea in 2006 and 2009, hardly the action of an "ally".

So Japan doesn't want a peace treaty because they want sex slaves? How does that make sense at all?

Forgive me if I don't buy a Russia Today Youtube video as Gospel. This is the same shoddy excuse for a channel that gives airtime to truly wacky conspiracy theorists and gets its money right from the Kremlin's coffers. It's Pravda with Fox News graphics. Even then the report only says some South Korean shelling crossed the claimed maritime border. It was always the story that the North Korean attack was as a result of South Korean drills. In what world does firing some shells into the water justify the North's actions, which killed people. Even the Russian foreign minister said this, for goodness sakes, "It is one thing to fire at the water even though these waters are disputed, quite another to fire at the land, at human settlements. People died. This is the main point."

As for the ship, I'll admit that there are open questions here and my interest in dissecting it is quite minimal. I would, however, like to apply a bit of logic to why it makes more sense for the North to have done it than... whatever you seem to think. This occurred just months before Kim Jong Il made it clear that his son would succeed him (again, a communist can support a de facto monarchy baffles me). It's possible that this was a calculated move to make sure that the West knew not to meddle in the transition, either to show that the regime was ready to lash out to preserve itself or to show that without the Kim family the military might just decide to start a Second Korean War. Or, more troubling, maybe it was the military making a play so that it gets a bigger say in what the post Kim Jong Il government looks like. That all makes a lot of sense to me, though they're far from the only possibilities. Surely palace intrigues in an isolated and paranoid government explains the situation better than... well... the neighboring democracies picking a fight with a rogue nuclear power?

"They're not friends. China ceased being an ally in 1988"

First off, I only asked if China was North Korea's enemy, since you said it was surrounded by enemies. Even if you're right about them not being "allies" (which I don't think you are) you could hardly say they're enemies when China is virtually alone in NOT condemning the North for the shelling of that island and, more broadly, being just about the only country in the world that treats North Korea normally rather than as the den of lunatics everyone else sees.

I'm beginning to think that you just don't follow this part of the world very much. China is the only friend North Korea has in the world. Leaving aside the solidarity the Korean War created between the states and how they ideologically rhyme, it's just blatantly clear that China is all that's propping North Korea up. Why did Kim Jong Il go to China so many times as the transition to his son started? Why did China not condemn the North's actions for the shelling of that island when virtually the entire world was against North Korea? It's because North Korea is strategically useful to China as a buffer against the US-friendly South Korean government and as a "bad cop" in all manner of geostrategic scenarios.


It's pretty simple, Putin33. You're such a socialist that you'll support any socialist government, no matter how oppressive, no matter how far they stray from the Marxist dogma which I'm sure you can quote chapter and verse. You're so opposed to the West generally and the United States especially that you assume that if the West or America takes a position on an issue then it must be wrong and evil. How else can you defend a regime like North Korea with a straight face or claim that independence for Southern Sudan is the result of some plot by the United States against the wishes of the southern people?

Thucydides put it best. By sticking to the party line on something so blatantly bad as North Korea you lose all legitimacy on topics where you may have good ideas. You're obviously intelligent, but you're also an irredeemable idiot and hopefully that will become steadily more clear to people on this forum.

I wonder about Putin sometimes I really do.

What is it you are trying accomplish, on this site and in life generally, if I may be permitted to ask such a question?

Also, socialism is a pretty "western" idea if there ever was one, which is pretty funny if you think about it.

North Korea cost China Taiwan. If think China is a great ally of North Korea you are sorely mistaken. Taiwan is the single most important issue re: Chinese foreign policy. Nothing else comes close. China blames the DPRK for the 7th fleet being placed in the Taiwan strait in the 1950s, and is aggravated that they're the ones who always seem to have to put out the Korean fires. Yes China lost many lives defending North Korea from the barbaric US invasion, but that was a long time ago. Times have changed. China wants to be a mainstream country. The Korea issue is an albatross around its neck. China has very very good relations with the South. It has no need for a "buffer state" there. South Korea, incidentally, is highly anti-American at least among the younger generation. There's an easy explanation for that, because the US backed the South's military regime while it was shooting kids who were protesting. They also found out that the US was responsible for the division of the peninsula and that the Rhee government instigated the fight in the 1950s.

Yes the Korean leadership meet with the Chinese leadership a lot but that has nothing to do with coordinating strategy but rather they have to do this because Japan and the US don't have relations with the North. Who else are they going to talk to? They have no choice especially since the US government opposed any direct talks.

"Also, socialism is a pretty "western" idea if there ever was one, which is pretty funny if you think about it."

It's only funny if you buy Invictus's idiotic rant about how I hate everything western. I've defended the progressive aspects of western civilization and admire it a great deal. To Invictus that means I have to get on the American empire train.

In November 2009 the South sank a northern ship and none of you cheerleaders said boo about it. That's because the South gets way with murder all the time and yet it's always described as the North's fault. With the shelling incident, the North warned the South repeatedly about the artillery drills. The South fired over 2,000 shells after the North's warning before the North retaliated with 170 shell firings. The South returned fire on North Korea with 80 more shell firings.

If any other country was the victim of a planned artillery live firings of up to 4,000 shells in territory they consider their own then you would have justified it. The only reason you don't is because it's North Korea, and North Korea can't ever possibly be a victim.

And the larger point is that the media systematically *lied* about this incident. First saying the North fired without provocation, then saying the North killed civilians. You don't care though. It's more important to simply engage in your typical "North Korea is crazy, and anybody who ever questions anything said about North Korea no matter how legitimate the questions is crazy too". That's all you have to go on, appealing to the fact that North Korea is a pariah state in the public imagination. Evidence be damned.

@Putin - If you don't like "the American Empire" so much, why don't you immigrate to somewhere else? I'm seriously wondering why you continue to live here. Please answer this question. It isn't rhetorical, but is a legitimate inquiry as to why you haven't move to a nation more suiting your political agenda(s).

The same reason the far-right doesn't emigrate even though they think Obama's government is a Nazi/socialist/monarchy of gay Muslims. Because it helps no one to surrender. The rest of the world needs a strong progressive movement in the US to bring about changes.

Yeah okay Putin respond to this:

How come Kim Jung Il doesn't step down and let someone else run the country?

What youre talking about are trifles. What were talking about is dictatorship and shit governance. Im not particularly interested in juvenile "who started it" question related to the Korean Family Feud.

I am interested in how well the government of North Korea treats its population, which is not well, especially compared to its neighbor to the south.

This does not make SK perfect and every sane person acknowledges that.

I however challenge you on the following point:

Please name a position or opinion you hold that is not in line with your broader ideology.

I.e. show us that you are more than a bot.

I will give you an example.

I hate dictators - the side of the line they fall on is not of great importance to me.

Saudi Arabia? Despots. I'm ashamed we're as chummy with them as we are.
North Korea? Despots. In this one case I am glad my government takes the line it does, because it so RARELY does the right thing.

I am an advocate of generally more government - but I find certain functions of our government to be a bloated waste of existence. Example: the Department of Homeland Security.

I am also a person who believes religion is not some kind of fucking plague like some people believe. I do not, however, shy away from condemning shit heads like al-Qaeda terrorists, Christian fundamentalists, Hindu nationalists.... etc.

I find the government of Italy to be a shitty government, despite being rightist, but I find the government of the UK to be a good government, despite being rightist.

I find the government of Russia to be a shit government, despite being leftist. I find the government of Norway to be a good government, despite being leftist.

I supported Sri Lanka's efforts to eliminate the Tamil Tigers. I do not and did not support its methodology which included restricted press freedoms and massacres of civilians.

I support Palestine, but not Hamas or Israel's present government...

etc.

So can you provide some of these to us?

Putin how you can call yourself progressive and still support some of the least progressive people on this planet boggles my mind.

I am all for calling America an empire or whatever, it basically is, you are right. I agree with you a lot. But like I said before - come ON. Just BECAUSE someone is anti-american doesnt mean they can do no wrong or deserve your defense. you taint all progressivism when you do this.

"What youre talking about are trifles. What were talking about is dictatorship and shit governance. Im not particularly interested in juvenile "who started it" question related to the Korean Family Feud."

"Juvenile"? Was it also "juvenile" or a "trifle" when the west invented nonsense about WMDs in order to attack Iraq? You question my progressivism but you find nothing particularly alarming with governments making shit up in order to beat the drums for war.

"I am interested in how well the government of North Korea treats its population, which is not well, especially compared to its neighbor to the south."

Right, it's easy to construct a facile narrative without any regard for context, history, geopolitical conditions, or anything else. You're more interested in making yourself feel good and morally pure by supposedly opposing every "dictatorship", if that means providing cover for invasion, bombardment, and whatever else then so be it. Your hands are supposedly "clean", right?

"Please name a position or opinion you hold that is not in line with your broader ideology."

I took a lot of shit for defending Israel. Actually you people can't get your talking points straight. Sometimes I'm called a flip flopper or contrarian and now you're claiming I'm a bot who simply regurgitates whatever I'm expected to say based on ideological boxes.

I'm a leftist. Leftists generally support drug legalization. I'm opposed.
I'm a Marxist. Marxists generally strongly oppose Israel. I defend Israel's anti-terrorist posture and believe the Palestinians don't give a damn about imperialism, as we've seen re: Libya.
I'm very critical of Islamism. Actually people on here have said I'm anti-Muslim based on the France/hijab debate.
Typically Marxists are against gun control. I'm in favor.

Anyway the simple answer to all of this is that you, as a supposed progressive, don't understand the concept of internationalism and don't understand the concept of what is the principle contradiction. Is the bigger threat to the world American imperialism? Or is the bigger problem that North Korea, a poor developing country with an impossible security environment, doesn't have a Swedish human rights record?

It's easy for people who benefited from hundreds of years of plunder and empire to sit back and lecture poor newly independent countries about not being as pure as the snow is white. Especially a country that had its own painful course of development involving slavery, segregation, eradication of indigenous peoples, and all the rest. Imagine if the US came upon this planet with the baptism of fire that North Korea had, artificially divided because of US geostrategic interests, with every significant human settlement destroyed (and afterwards there is no peace treaty), faced with a massive military buildup within miles of their capital, etc. Imagine what the US would do under such conditions.

I reject simplistic, self-righteous, sloganeering that tries to find excuses for ignoring history and concrete conditions because it feels better to kick a pariah around.

And Russia isn't a "leftist" government. The left is the opposition in Russia. I don't know how many times this has to be explained. How can a protoge of the man who privatized the entire country be a "leftist"?

"How come Kim Jung Il doesn't step down and let someone else run the country? "

He's only been in power for 12 years. There's lot of liberal democracies who've had rulers with longer tenures than he. And he is stepping down soon enough.

Oh I forgot one. Most Marxists are very very critical of Obama and the Democratic Party. I defend both. Thanks.

obiwan... I did Model UN (and JSA - Junior Statesmen of America) for 4 years in HS... in College I joined the club - but after a few months a professor I highly respected told me something very profound and I quit the club.

He said "in HS you need to do pretend things... in College you can go do the real thing".

so go get an internship - go work for a political office - go join and help a community group or a non-profit. you're in college, no need to pretend anymore - you can go do the real thing.

@Putin - try 14 years. He took over in 1997. Just picking nits of course.

"Was it also "juvenile" or a "trifle" when the west invented nonsense about WMDs in order to attack Iraq? You question my progressivism but you find nothing particularly alarming with governments making shit up in order to beat the drums for war."

You assume too much - yes it was and I am against that and ashamed of that.

I thin you assume way too much in fact - I oppose most of america's foreign policy too...


"Is the bigger threat to the world American imperialism? Or is the bigger problem that North Korea, a poor developing country with an impossible security environment, doesn't have a Swedish human rights record?"

No I think it is America, but I am calling you out for defending the government of NK who does not deserve defense.

Again, I want to reiterate - I don't hate them BECAUSE they are an enemy of the united states - as I have said there are also friends of the united states that i detest. this was to demonstrate that it is not whether they are amenable to US interests that decides for me whether they are good. what decides it for me is their concern for their own population.

apologies for mischaracterizing russia as leftist.

a progressive cares about the state of people's actual lives - human rights and standards of living.

if i see a country that has shitty ones and isnt trying to fix them or is indeed part of the problem, well then i condemn that government.

DONT for a second think that means i think western countries and these days china et al are somehow worthy of praise for pulling themselves up by their bootstraps. not at all.

dont lecture me about imperialism because i think i know as well as you that all the wealth of the west basically was carted away from what would become the third world. dont think i dont know that all the material prosperity i have enjoyed in my life in america has its legacy is the worst humanitarian and moral catastrophe in recorded history.

"Bloodshed, genocide, rape and fraud,
written into the pages of the law, good Lord."

"You don't give money to the bums
On the corner, with a sign, bleedin' from they gums
Talking about you don't support a crackhead -
What you think happens to the money from your taxes?
Shit the government's the addict,
with a billion dollar a week kill brown people habit.
And even if you aint on the front lines when NASA yell crunch time you right back at it
Man look at how you hustlin backwards,
at the end of the year add up what they subtracted
Three outta twelve months your salary pay that madness. Madness? Sadness.
What's left get a big-ass plasma
to see where they made Dan Rather point the damn camera.
Only approve questions get asked.
So stand your ass up for that national anthem:

Welcome to the United Snakes
Land of the Thief, Home of the Slave
The grand imperial guard where the dollar is sacred and power is god."

Random observation (@Thucy and Putin): Socialism is indeed about as western a notion as you can get. It is the love-child of materialism, maturing wage capitalism, Hegelian teleological historiography (with a secularized Christian notion of heaven-on-earth as telos), and nineteenth-century forms of self-organized civil society.

As regards MUN, I did a little of this in college and got my tail kicked, and later helped run similar IR simulations for educational purposes. The keys:
--Research, research, research. Know your country and the others in the simulation. Know the issue at hand, where you stand, and where others will stand.

--Don't fight the game, play it. It is tempting, especially with a "spoiler" country such as DPRK, to try to snarl the simulation. Play your country to the hilt, but do so within the parameters of the sim.

Model NATO is way better since it simulates an organization that wields some actual power. Can't say that for the UN ;)

They bother do their share of plundering and killing.

I think you wanted to say both.