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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Adam Wayne (244 D)
13 Jul 11 UTC
Tournament/League Play
So, maybe you will curse me for starting a new thread about this, but I am curious.

8 replies
Open
Yellowjacket (835 D (B))
12 Jul 11 UTC
Paused Game
I have a game that was paused, but one player hasn't returned for 3 days (he is not the one that requested the pause) and everybody else is ready to go again. How long does etiquette demand we wait? Can we even GET somebody to unpause it?
2 replies
Open
Babak (26982 D (B))
13 Jul 11 UTC
DC Diplomacy Tournament. 9/30 to 10/1 reduced reg fees until 7/31/2011
Website: http://www.ptks.org/tempest.php
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Cost: Early Registration through 7/31: $45 to PTKS members, $55 to non-members.
more info below...
3 replies
Open
DipCastGuys (100 D)
04 Jul 11 UTC
DiplomacyCast tech issues FINALLY resolved, Ep6 is available!
The latest on DiplomacyCast; please read, loyal listeners!
14 replies
Open
abgemacht (700 D (G))
06 Jul 11 UTC
webDip Representative for Diplomacy Cast
Let's get one of our own on DipCast for an interview!
You know the drill: +1 as many people as you like, but you can't vote for the same person more than once.
86 replies
Open
(2113 D)
03 Jul 11 UTC
Smiley Invitational
gameID=62933

200 point bet, Full press, Anon, WTA, 48 hour phases. Please post interest here.
59 replies
Open
Furball (237 D)
12 Jul 11 UTC
500 internal server
this is happening much more often, dman it.
0 replies
Open
The Czech (30128 D (S))
12 Jul 11 UTC
Gunboat I-5 Comments
10 replies
Open
zultar (3790 D Mod (P))
12 Jul 11 UTC
(+1)
Please join me in the 3rd game of Newton's 3rd Law: Action and Reaction
1 reply
Open
obiwanobiwan (250 D)
12 Jul 11 UTC
I LOVE The Smell Of Idiocy In The Evening!
And how much greater a stench it is when it wafts in from just near my own backyard...
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2011/07/south-california-proposed-as-51st-state-by-republican-supervisor.html

That has to be the DUMBEST state idea I've ever heard. Period.
76 replies
Open
Invictus (240 D)
11 Jul 11 UTC
Communism with Yuri Yarmin-Agaev
http://tv.nationalreview.com/uncommonknowledge/post/?q=YzYyODNhYzcxNGMxYTk1OTRjYzk3ODM3NzQ5NjZjZDU=
21 replies
Open
Yonni (433 D)
12 Jul 11 UTC
Need a sitter
I have one game (a gunboat) that I need a sitter for. Can anyone help me out, please?
I assume there is no appropriate way to contact the people in the gunboat to request a pause.
1 reply
Open
abgemacht (700 D (G))
12 Jul 11 UTC
Google+
Absolutely amazing. Having a 7 person video chat right now!
52 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (250 D)
11 Jul 11 UTC
A
Just a thought--since we have so many apt and opposing personalities on the site that frequently debate topics, anyone interested in a more formalized session? Format ideas and the rest inside--and definitely open to ideas here--but basically it'd be sort of like the forum equivalent of a live game: 5 minutes for posts on the topics given, and then 2 minutes for a rebuttal, one person goes after another...we'll select for an impartial debate moderator...points awarded by moderator, and so on?
43 replies
Open
TiresiasBC (418 D)
12 Jul 11 UTC
Please, if you have the time, consider being a sitter for me!
The games are gameID=60453 and gameID=61014. I'm having sudden time commitments and am neglecting both games dreadfully - messages not responded to, barely entering orders on time, etc. The other players deserve better. Does anyone reliable want to sub for me until I get back on my feet? I'll greatly appreciate it!
2 replies
Open
TiresiasBC (418 D)
12 Jul 11 UTC
Looking for a sitter!
The games are gameID=60453 and gameID=61014. I'm having sudden time commitments and am neglecting both games dreadfully - messages not responded to, barely entering orders on time, etc. The other players deserve better. Does anyone reliable want to sub for me until I get back on my feet? I'll greatly appreciate it!

Sorry for posting twice, but I realized the vital part of my subject got chopped off in the regular view. I'm not used to starting threads on the forum.
0 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (250 D)
09 Jul 11 UTC
Putin Explains It All!
Well, ladies and gents of WebDip, I have opinions--so do you. That being said, my opinions are just that, opinions, and *I* don't have a clear, 100%, fail-safe answer to every single matter of running a nation.
LUCKILY, however, we here at WebDip DO have such an esteemed, enlightened individual, who, as has been evidenced time and time again, is correct no matter what. So, I give him the floor: Putin--please, explain how we might all prosper in a Perfect Putinist Polity!
83 replies
Open
Baskineli (117 D (B))
03 Jul 11 UTC
New game - anonymous WTA
Anybody in for a 48 hours anonymous WTA?

About 300-500 D's buy in.
31 replies
Open
Conservative Man (100 D)
06 Jul 11 UTC
Conservative Man = Back!
Do you remember me? Anyway, I might not be back permanently. I may play some games, but I'm mainly here to ask you guys a question, because I know I can trust you guys to be brutally honest. So anyway, the question will be inside, and it will take a while for me to write; it's pretty long.
161 replies
Open
zultar (3790 D Mod (P))
10 Jul 11 UTC
(+1)
Can a mod please cancel this game? Two CDs and probably multiaccounter or metagamer
141 replies
Open
(2113 D)
11 Jul 11 UTC
☻☻☻☺ EOG
Terrible performance, Germany. And Turkey, to an extent.

gameID=63502
(2113 D)
11 Jul 11 UTC
S01: Well, Russia this time. Glad we finally got this game going. Hopefully we get this game going. Supporting Turkey to Black for S01, hoping he doesn’t move to Arm. If he does, I’m in deep trouble. But what’s diplomacy without some risk? Hopefully Austria gives me Gal and that will ensure Rum. Well, that, and for Germany to give me Swe. And France is not present. Again. Wonderful.

A01: Well, I’m glad we’ll likely cancel because of France. Not a good start for me. Take Rum from Sev, trust turkey.

Builds: Well I’m glad Turkey and I are on the same page. Key lepanto by Austria and Italy. No fun there. And Italy has removed his cancel vote. Why? Why Italy… *sigh* Got to build A St. Pete because of England will have to pick a side in that fight sooner or later – they won’t stay friends for long with that French CD.

S02: Interesting builds from Italy. Why the fleet Rom? It is, in every way, worse than Naples… I’ll move to Finland, and hope that England wants to be friends, so I can help him against Germany. We’ll see about that though. F Kie isn’t exactly inspiring.

A02: Well that’s an embarrassing misorder. But I’m glad Italy is being stupid and attacking Austria in the face of a Juggernaut. And the English support to Swe from Den isn’t inspiring. But it looks like Germany wants war with England, so maybe I’ll get into Swe anyway. At this point, I’m deciding that I refuse to draw with either Germany or Italy. It will. not. happen. Don’t waste my time by making me play a game with CD’s.

Builds: Well again with the English support to Swe. But Germany didn’t take it. I’ll work with Germany against England for now. I probably can’t stick with him after I take Scandanavia though – I’ll need to turn on him if I want to grow. And it looks like *AUSTRIA* is quitting now. Jesus Christ. ETR is the only result I will accept from this game. Oh, never mind. There he is.

S03: I’ll move to Boh and Gal so I look like I’m going after Austria. But it will really give me a better way to attack Germany. Oh, now that you’re losing your gains you vote draw Italy? I don’t think so. Don’t like that fleet build from England, but it’s to be expected I suppose. At least that army will have nowhere to retreat to and will have to disband. That will be very nice. As long as Turkey doesn’t stab me, my plan will go very well.

A03: Slightly confused by Germany’s moves. Will try to take Vie, although it will put me in a worse position to stab Germany. But I don’t necessarily have a problem with that. I’d build A sev and shore up my southern border. Hope I can take Vie, but I don’t think I’ll be able to.

Builds: A War, the support a move to Sil and pru, while moving Swe > Bal, Nor > Swe, Fin > Nor. Germany has a build, but with England’s help, I can take him out, I think. I feel like a Turkish stab is inevitable, but I just hope it’s not now. Very glad I didn’t move Swe > Bal, which I thought about. That would have been disasterous.

S04: I hope Germany doesn’t see this coming. If that fleet is for England, then he’s gone – I’ll have Mun and Ber by the end of the year. If it’s for me, then… well. That could be a problem. (A problem in that I’ll only get one of his centers…) Very reassured by Turkeys’ builds though. But I need A Sev asap. Regardless, Austria will no doubt be thrilled by my moves. In other news, Aragon kicks so much ass. (I’m watching LOTR now.) And Orcs are disgusting.

A04: Whoops, I think I forgot to put a break there. Oh well. I think I have to build A Warsaw if I want to take out Germany. This is tough. I’m very open to a stab. But Italy has two builds, and hopefully will get Turkey occupied.

S05: Hope I don’t get stabbed by Turkey, like I keep saying. I think he knows that if he stabs me, Italy will have my help against him, which he doesn’t want. And He’s a year’s sail away from the Black Sea. Time to prod Denmark and Berlin and see what I get. I may lose Munich this turn, but I’ll gain Den and Ber likely. I’d expect Germany to move to Ruhr and Bur so that he has three to put on Mun in the fall. I’m taking that gamble. But I’m not sure it will work out.

A05: Well this is awkward. I’ll take two of Germany’s centers, but Italy looks to take Warsaw, for some reason. But it also looks like Germany might quit. Sigh. That is *NOT* why I want to get centers. If he CD’s I won’t solo this, but I will draw it. But like I said, not with Italy. Well there are his orders. But that doesn’t change anything other than that I’m willing to solo it now, if I can (Which I don’t think I can.) Will support a move to Hel from North, although I highly, highly doubt that England will do it because there’s nothing else to do. Entirely support holds though, beyond that. Really hoping for two builds here. Leaving Munich unprotected.

Builds: Well I expected a support hold of Rum from Turkey. But I see why he didn’t. Little to lose from a Turkish stab now, though. “ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY CAPSLOCK INTO MORDOR.” I’m glad England messed up his orders though, that really saved me. But I really don’t see why England wouldn’t help me take out Germany. If he could just reposition his fleets, he could gain a lot…

S06: Move to Rum in hopes of support. Glad to see the Gal disband. Will try to take Kie and Den, despite England’s moves.

A06: I really need to get a build here. Everyone seems to think they’re entitled to mine. What is this, some kind of socialist utopia? I worked hard for my centers, and I don’t want you money grubbing land lubbers to take them! I’m looking at you England. Course, if I ever do get a build, the first thing I’ll do is take back Norway from St. Pete, so…

Builds: Damnit, I was afraid of that. I *had* Swe > Norway ordered and I changed it. Damnit.

S07: Damn, I’m pissed. That was really, really, stupid England. I bet it’s because I don’t have my draw vote up. And I’m not putting it up, so long as Germany and Italy are in this game, unless I absolutely have to. This could have been a three way draw, and now it’s going to be a four or five way. What a waste of points. And what’s worse, it will be a four or five way with stupid people who don’t cancel when there’s a CD. What a waste of a game. If you people are going to be this stupid, don’t join my games and waste my time. Draw if there are CDs. And eliminate as many people as possible before you have to stop the potential soloist – that way there are as few drawers as possible. At least it looks like Turkey will eliminate Italy.

S08: Moving to black in case Turkey decides to stat. Will force the recapture of St. Pete. Hopefully that will make England turn on Germany and I can worry about other things. I still can’t believe England was that stupid – we could have had Germany out of the game easily, without any threat of me soloing, but instead, he’ll be around for the draw. Sigh.

A08: Yep. Turkish stab. Tempted to do whatever I can to throw the game to him, but I think I still have a shot at the draw if England isn’t an obstinate fool. I will be throwing this game to the best of my ability should England not let me keep St. Pete. Or make any hostile action towards me at all, for that matter.

S09: Only hope for me at this point is Germany coming to help me fight off Turkey.

A09: I hope that army is for me Germany. And England and Germany need to get over their trust issues and send all their armies to the stalemate line, and now. Hopefully, Turkey will draw after Italy is out. I’m still angry that Germany is in it, but some things can’t be helped.

A10: I hope you realize to tap Gal with Sil, Germany…

Builds: Well my only ways into the draw at this point are St. Pete and Berlin. I’ll move to St. Pete and hope England lets me stay. Really, I don’t think Germany has any choice but to let me into Ber. If he’s smart, he will – he doesn’t have the armies to hold off Turkey. He need to build A Kie and let me into Ber. That’s the only way to hold the stalemate.

S11: Well, I’m thinking Turkey will solo this because Germany is an idiot. He needs a support hold of Munich that can’t be cut. Which is Ber. But I’m tapping Ber, and will continue to until I have no centers left. If you let me in, I’ll help you draw. If you don’t, Turkey will win. It’s pretty simple, really.

A11: Well Turkey is not playing very intelligently, or he would have won last turn. Maybe he’ll figure it out this turn. Or maybe Germany will. Probably not. I can’t believe Germany is that stupid. This is why you should have picked me as an ally, England.

S12: Well this is Germany’s last chance to realize he needs me for the draw… My guess is… not. Germany’s moves here *should* be, Mun > Bur, Kie > Ruhr, Ber > Kie, Bal support Pru > Ber. Because without me, he doesn’t have enough armies for the stalemate. But I’m guessing he keeps trying to hold Munich like an obstinate fool. This is absolutely infuriating.

A12: Well Germany might get his draw after all – because Turkey is an idiot. But it does look like I’m out, at this point. I can’t believe this. Both Germany *and* Turkey have no clue how to play this game. This is just unbelievable. Germany got his draw, despite his stupidity. Turkey could have had the solo, but doesn’t know how to solo a game when someone is trying to throw it to him apparently…

S13: And for some reason, Turkey isn’t drawing. Does he realize it’s a stalemate? Actually, judging by how he failed to solo, he probably doesn’t know what a stalemate is. Sorry. I’m a little pissed. You may have gathered that.

A13: OK, I have no idea what Turkey is playing at. This is pointless. Just end the game so I can post my EOG so you realize how stupid you all have been. Although this is actually really funny. Because Germany may have risked the stalemate. That would be hilarious if Turkey broke through.

S14: Germany’s lucky that that was an autumn phase and he can rebuild his army. That would have been hilarious had Turkey gotten it. Well I was more or less just calling Turkey an idiot when I said he didn’t know what a stalemate is, but maybe he actually doesn’t…

A15: Yeah… Turkey doesn’t know what a stalemate line is.

FINALLY!
(2113 D)
11 Jul 11 UTC
I am SO disgusted by this game.
The reason i pulled down my cancel vote, is because Germany wasn't canceling, and hwen i pulled it down it appeared UK was moving against him and getting the better of him. I agreed to cancel and was the right thing to do, i didn't want Germany trying to get frances territories and get a free win to get fucked over by england then just take the cancel option. I had every intention of canceling the game, i however didn't want to give germany the option to cancel once he realized he wasn't getting a solo. Last match I gave up a 3 build germany due to a DC france, so I don’t think my honor in canceling should be questioned here. And the fleet in rome is my dyslexic ass fucking me over.
zultar (3790 D Mod (P))
11 Jul 11 UTC
Anyone up for another LAG?
jmeyersd (4230 D)
11 Jul 11 UTC
S 01: Wahoo. I haven’t played Austria in a while – my first choice for this game. SER, ALB, GAL. I’ve long since decided that Austria is cooked with an aggressive Italy, so you just have to commend yourself to God and pray for friendliness. No point covering TRI/TYL. But if Italy is reasonable, A can manhandle T/R. Would like to see move to arm from T. I’m feeling like I should be watching a space-themed movie of some sort – it seems to be a recurring motif in these eogs. France, don’t make me destroy you…



F 01: France, it is with great regret that I must inform you that I have mentally destroyed your existance. Honestly. Not my day for live gunboats. Grrr. And italy, grrr. Though the other day I saw this played as a Key-Lepanto, which I belive is just silly, but I’m tempted to take a chance on it. Maybe… this could be over very quickly if I guess wrong. But what the heck – this game is ruined, anyway. Let’s experiment. Ser-gre.



B 01: wow, I’m amazed that worked. Still, this is bs. It’s so italian-favoring. But, no choice but to oblige Italy as long as possible. Hope he doesn’t build in ven. I won’t in TRI. I guess italy is experienced, probly smiley, as he was in that same game with the key-lepanto. But I really hate it as aus (great for I). sooooooo lopsided. But still better than hostile italy. I also don’t like how my fleet is stuch in alb.



S 02: this could backfire, fast. Bad builds from italy, unless he’s hoping to bluff turkey, assuming I’m a competent player for picking up on the lepanto. In that case, he’ll want me to go to ion. Itt’s super-risky, but it has the potential to be the greatest gunboat communication/alliance ever. This game is just for kicks now, so I’ll try it. And shoot. I can’t remember who supports who to BUL in the key lepanto, but ser-bul makes more sense. Won’t work, though, as BLA will likely support hold. This is fascinating. Have to support self to Gal to keep out Russia. T can’t cover e med, which is good. I shudder to think how quickly I will swallow me if we hit a wall, though. But we should make progress at sea this turn. Almost worth taking ddown cancel to play this out. Not really – this game is crap sans france.



F 02: damn it, italy. this is why I hate the key lepanto in general. Sooo one-sided. And I don’t get the rom build. Unless it was just a triple-bluff. In that case, extremely well played my green friend. But seriously, you have to stop now. In case you haven’t noticed, there’s this thing called a juggernaut headed for ya. And I don’t much fancy your chances when it arrives. Much as I’d like to think this is just a continuation of your bluff v. Turkey, it’s clearly not, so just going to go all out on you from here on out. Austria is absolutely no fun when everyone picks on you like this. Jugg + unreasonable italy L



B 02: well, not only is this italy a backstabbing little liar, he’s also a rather incompetent one. Serbia seriously had to go to BUD there. (I withdraw the claim that I is smiley) I expected to lose GRE. ALB has to go, ion is far too valuable. Maybe I can make a dash for iberia! But seriously, I’m toast in this game – but sure as hell I’m bringing italy down with me. That was poorly played. Not that I’m the vindictive sort or anything. And we had such potential, too.



S 03: well, break for iberia’s out. That woulda been fun, though. Gotta cover BUD from Russia, hopefully T will stab with ARM/BLA. Unlikely. Will cut adr. If I wants it, it’ll kill his position. I expect T to try for SER. Well, no help from me, my little green urchin. You made your bed. Turkey will likely come out on top out of all this. Whhether he sollos will depend on the west, but the german’s poor play makes me think it will be a cakewalk to victory.



F 03: italy apparently has no desire to stop the jugg. Typical. I guess he doesn’t realize he’s next on the chopping block. Poor sod. I’ll hold ion counting on T bouncing it to retreat to either nap or tyrr. My god that army in tun is pretty pitiful. Maybe g got the memo about the jugg? Still weird moves. R/T are bossing this game, which is embarrasing for the france-less west. If I’m lucky will hold two scs.



B 03: well, too bad that didn’t work out in ion. Italy, I hope you can see what a mess you’ve got us both into. Btw, no way I’m losing ION. If I keep the armies I just sit and wait forever more. Ion at least gives me movement. I’ll let Italy hold VEN for me. Yeah, right. Oh, and smiley is england.



S 04: short orders, lots of time to type. Ion is going to tyrr this year, maybe can snag a center somewhere. e/g broke south too quickly, though. Anyway, my thoughts on the game in general: maybe I got over-excited at the idea of the key-lepanto and left myself too open. Maybe I misread I going to ser and in fact it was just meant to cut support to greece. But the fact remains that there’s just not much for it as aus when i/t/r are all out for blood and a traditional war likely wouldn’t have fared much better. I personally find italian moves on aus idiotic in the opening years except under very specific circumstances. Italy was too slow to read the jugg threat and clearly made up his mind to attack me too early and inflexibly. Maybe I could have lasted longer, but there’s just not much for it.



F 05: wow, italy and germany. Germany, what the hell are you doing. Surely you realize by now that you need english support. Italy, you’re losing ION you know…and do you really think you can hold bud? I’ll try for nap.



B 05: well, I haven’t the faintest idea why turkey didn’t try for trieste – he might be blowing his solo prospects. Speed is what was required here. Silly.



Well, I’m out folks. Glad to be rid of that debacle, tbh. T will swallow I then stab r for the win is my prediction – he’ll have to step up his pace, though. g/e will push russia back.



Poor, poor game. A touch of bitterness speaking there, perhaps, but poor nonetheless. Not too disappointed in my play – not much I could do. Who wanted to be Austria??
(2113 D)
11 Jul 11 UTC
Fair enough. I had forgotten that you had it up and removed it. You're right, PNT. I'd love to hear from Germany on why he was an idiot, though.
Sorry, jmey about that game, but in all honesty I think if i didn't make a few mental farts like the build in rome, i would have been able to fight off turkey no problem. Which is why i was so aggressive against you. This was my 2nd gunboat and not completely up to date with all of the hidden alliances moves. I will say i did see the juggernaut coming, but did think i was capable of stoping trukey on my own with out austria. I was disappointed that germany didn't cancel, and if me taking back my cancel upset you i apologize, but i would have canceled had germany ever up it up.
Gobba (2209 D (G))
11 Jul 11 UTC
This is England, probably just another idiot. My EOG is relatively short. It took forever to convince Germany I would support him versus R/T. I spent most of my time protecting the North Sea from a potential German invasion, then Russian invasion. None panned out, but if I lost the North Sea, I was lost with my far flung units.

I put the CANCEL vote on in F 01. At least I know when a game should be cancelled.
England, just wondering Germany spent 3 turns walking across the atlantic and into north africa just to kill me. Why did you give him that territory? You were in postion for waaaay longer to take me out.
(2113 D)
11 Jul 11 UTC
No, you played well, Gobba. I was frustrated by your stab, since Germany neither deserved nor needed to stay around. Our border was such that you could have easily stopped me from soloing at any time if you wanted to - I just wanted to eliminate Germany. And with such a powerful Turkey, I wasn't likely to solo either.

But the worst players, by far, were Germany and Turkey. That just infuriates me.

phew glad i didn't make the worst players list hahaha, it was fun smiley. Hopefully well play together again soon.
(2113 D)
11 Jul 11 UTC
Haha. In general, PNT, I agree with jmeyer about ITaly attacking Austria in 01. I'd never attack Austria in 01 unless Turkey opened to Arm. And even then it's questionable. There are two openings, I'd consider. 1. Standard lepanto, 2. Ven > Tyr > Boh, Rom > Ven > Tyr


12 replies
Rommeltastic (943 D (B))
11 Jul 11 UTC
FAST EOG
Anyone want to comment?
13 replies
Open
(2113 D)
08 Jul 11 UTC
Paging...
Sargmacher, askninjasks, Tru Ninja, Maniac, akilies, zultar...

Please check your PMs.
17 replies
Open
(2113 D)
10 Jul 11 UTC
☻☻☺☻ EOG
gameID=63487

Inside
7 replies
Open
JEccles (164 D)
10 Jul 11 UTC
interpretation of rule 5?
"5. The Pause/Unpause feature is not a diplomatic tool
The pause is there to stop players missing their orders, but is not part of the game. As such pausing or unpausing should not be used for diplomatic gain, such as refusing to unpause unless other players will draw the game. If it is being abused staff may step in to sort it out."

27 replies
Open
(2113 D)
10 Jul 11 UTC
Bug in the "Threads/Replies" part of a players profile
I'm assuming others have noticed this, but if you haven't, it takes awhile for a thread or reply to actually appear there. And if you have too many, the page will crash. Does anyone know what governs this behavior? As best I can tell, the number of posts missing is somewhat proportional to the number of posts you've made.
11 replies
Open
Lando Calrissian (1 D (S))
09 Jul 11 UTC
New Gunboat
48 hours, 518 D, WTA, no-press

anyone welcome gameID=63399
7 replies
Open
PunxsutawneyPhil (399 D)
10 Jul 11 UTC
NEW GAME - PPSC, Classic, 15 D
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=63467
0 replies
Open
DJheyzues (100 D)
09 Jul 11 UTC
face to face Diplomacy
I played diplomacy with a group of freinds and found it to be very different then on web diplomacy not only beacues of the obviose things but in how peaople were more willing to launch venndetas against people has anyone else had this happen?
8 replies
Open
Yonni (433 D)
08 Jul 11 UTC
The end of the US space program?
http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/07/08/graphic-the-last-shuttle-launch/
So, with NASA's final space shuttle launch today, where does that leave the US (and international space program)? Is this even something to be sad about or should we be focusing our cash-money elsewhere, anyways?
90 replies
Open
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