gameID=60003, gameID=44321

yes, when england doesn't take norway by force, it happens all the time.

I have no clue why an England would want to deposit an army in Belgium in a gunboat. You're more or less stuck, because if you're in Eng, France is almost always building a boat in Brest, and ENG and NTH can do nothing to help the army standing there all by itself.

I tend to agree. In a gunboat, England's natural tendency to open to Scandinavia is made all the more stronger by the fact that Norway is England's only guaranteed 1901 build.

* Tsk, excuse my grammer. I should have said "...is made all the stronger..."

The nation that gets no builds flies under the radar. The nation that pulls off the elusive triple build (Germany and France come to mind) tends to be the biggest target.

It happens, you can come back from it, but it's not necessarily the best route to a solo victory. If in doubt, always try to secure Norway when you're playing as England I'd say. Yes, position and your diplomatic standing is important, but you need some momentum, some growth if you want to be a serious player on the board.

The problem with gunboat in general is the ability to influence people to your way of thinking. Yes, there is diplomacy (I've argued it time and again where people say there is none), but the idea of being a 1 SC power that comes back to win the game just isn't going to happen. Even being a very weak position (CD takeover lets say) and coming back to be the strongest in a three way draw is nigh on impossible in gunboat, but the sweet talker can almost always use their weakness against the other players.

Did he stop for some Yorkshire Pudding?

This is just after the time of Dickens... Perhaps it was some figgy pudding.

@Draug

Do you know the Yorkshire Pudding opening? It's when all units move to Yorkshire in the first turn.

So, something like the Diplofool opening in Germany where all units bounce in Kie or Ber but Kie or Bur doesn't even move.

Well, something like that for Germany is a death sentence. What I learned from the lovely DipCast that I've been listening to is that the Yorkshire Pudding can be used if E or F are unreasonably afraid of you and you want to show you aren't a threat, so that they attack one another.

Maybe I need to start listening to DipCast...

Hey, Draug, from 1SC to win is actually possible in a gunboat. And with England! Check this out: gameID=34872

@jesus - that's amazing!

If someone opens weak -- bouncing on themselves -- why wouldn't you just consume the weak neighbor? I say kick 'em while they're down!

Then you become too strong and everyone starts to fight you.

So...let's say Germany bounces on itself so as to be non-threatening. As France, I am then supposed to NOT attack Germany, so as to not be threatening....

Meanwhile...everyone else is building, looking at the silly people trying hard not to be threatening, and just waiting to come gobble them up. I'm not sure how this philosophy works....I'm positive that I am missing some important component to the concept.

@Krellin

As I said, bouncing your units as Germany (or almost any other country) is usually a death sentence. England is in the unique position that they're a pain to get to, so if you don't see them as a threat, it might be worth focusing on other, closer targets.

That's why you play a standard game. Unusual openings are used more rarely for a reason; they often won't work (Note well that 'often', there are always exceptions). England is actually at an advantage in gunboats I find. It's difficult to invade easily, and nearly impossible to co-ordinate a sealion without speaking. It's much easier for France and Germany to move against each other and try and convince England to side with them, (using Belgium). (Again this doesn't apply every time, but it's not unheard of either.)

I accidentl bounced myself with Lon-Nth and Edi-Nth in a game a little while back. But it wasn't the total disaster I expected. France still wanted an alliance and we proceeded to carve up Germany. I did quite well after that and shared in the draw. I think the saving grace was that my bungled opening meant that I was not a threat.

@Abge -- Got it - the argument is specific to England. sorry about my oversight.

The game posted by Jesus is just fantastic to look at.

Seriously incredible.

In this game, England got no builds until 1906, and ended up in a 4-way draw http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=58907

That required a lucky CD

@Jesus:

I remember that game. it was really awesome watching the Czech come back from that as Russia focused on carving me up instead of holding his northern front.