@Figle Right, I'm reffering to PPSC games only here.

I understand Rommel's argument. Considering it was PPSC, I don't blame them for going for the points and not worrying about place.

Now, *I* would stop the solo, too, and I side with smiles on that issue. But Rommel's position makes sense from a points perspective.

And Lando hit it on the money. The issue was that a few players simply didn't understand gunboat -- alliance signals, the need for extra strategic vigilance to stop a solo threat -- which ended up costing Lando and smiles. And I am sorry for that.

(Also, @smiles: I figured that you would convoy Greece to Naples and go for all four Italian centers the turn I stabbed. *shrug* I didn't like stabbing at the time I did, but I didn't have a choice. You played very well.)

I'm not saying that these guys necessarily played wrong, I'm saying that PPSC is AWFUL because it encourages people to play this way.

Nah, I knew your stab was coming Eden, there was just nothing I could do. You played well too. :-/

Heh. Not speaking from my position in the game, I do wish someone had come up and helped. Germany shouldn't have eroded your position and England shouldn't have ignored Scandinavia.

and Russia should have never let you into the black sea... Im stupid...

That's what I disagree with. If you don't like PPSC, DON'T PLAY THEM, simple as that. I like the idea that people will squabble for second places, and it helps people with goals other than draws to arrive. Though I admit, I only played a few WTA games in my Webdip career, all when I was quite noob...

Well, as I said Rommel, I was doing someone a favor by taking over. I play exclusively WTA, for exactly this reason.

@Smiley - While I disagree that PPSC is an awful way to play, I wholeheartedly subscribe to your way of thinking about wins/draws/etc. If one player has a clear chance of the solo win, I do everything I can to band the other players together to force the draw. The rare exception is when another player has made it clear that they will not cooperate in this venture (the annoying player type you have been describing above).

All this to say, I guess, it's not PPSC that's awful. It's a certain type of player. Granted, they are most often found in PPSC games. But, if I could alter the phrase, "Don't hate the game. Hate the player." PPSC games have their place and they are easily avoided. ;)

I think PPSC is a more fair way of allocating points. I think the winner should get ~3/4ths though. Someone deserves SOMETHING for an 18-16 split, if they tried their hardest to stop the solo. To get jack is... unfair.

But PPSC promotes bad behavior, which is why I don't like it.

But in itself, PPSC is a good system, but the people who play it are what sometimes ruin it.

You can't say it's a good system, because that begs the question. What is the purpose of the system? To allocate points fairly or to promote good behavior? I would argue both. PPSC does an acceptable job at allocating points (Not too much better than WTA, I think) but it promotes despicable behavior.

I don't think you can determine that it's a good or bad system, then. Whose word decided what behavior is "good"? By the same token that you can't just say it's a "good" or "bad" system, you can't just arbitrarily say some behavior is "good" and some is "bad."

I would argue that neither is superior. They are different variants. No one is the "original" one or "better;" they have the same objective under a points system (earning the most points), but different distribution means that provide different strategic objectives. In WTA, you obviously play win-draw-survive-defeat; in PPSC, a strong survive trumps a draw.

I personally like WTA more because I like the objectives better, but that is my personal preference.

Interesting reading. Im on the side of smiles/faceman/lando/President on the proper way to play. I dont mind PPSC in live games, though, because the caliber of most live games (at least that I have somehow found) is lower, so even in WTA you will see people mucking around on their own behalfs. But maybe thats just the games I have found,

Most important to me is thanking Face/Smiles. You did me an incredible boon by sitting, and I am sorry you got annoyed. I couldnt care less about the result, and you helped five other people enjoy their night. Thank you!

For those who put it all together -- the emergency is now somewhat resolved, and I appreciate the pms of concern.

I was wondering what happened for you to need a sitter and call for a pause! You don't have to say if you don't want to. I hope whatever happened is going to be alright.

And thanks for filling in, smiles -- I didn't know you were sitting until this thread =P

My wife needed to go to the hospital. We are both still there, but she is asleep and just being kept for monitoring now. The reason I actually had time to deal with this was because my car was with a friend and they needed 20 minutes to get to me. What people did in the days before cellphones.......

Anyways, Thanks again to smiles.

Oh, man. Hope she's doing well and I'm glad things are... okay? Sounds like things are okay. I hope they are, and if they are I'm glad.

Nice work smiles. ;]

they are indeed, thanks. Just chilling on a couch with a laptop in the evening. Reminds me of my college days. If you and your friends are still hunting trouble, I might be interested.

By the way -- very well played by you. Kudos on the win. Though lord knows, if I had been there (ha -- just having fun, I highly doubt I could have done any better than smiles).

Nah, some of them are still high schoolers. Mommy made them go to sleep. =P We'll be around tomorrow if you happen to be online, though. Can always use more players! =]

And thank you! I feel like I was the benefactor of shoddy Western play (excepting, of course, poor Lando, who dealt with more suicide attacks than the whole of the Middle East in the past decade), but it is what it is. I dunno at which point smiles took over, but both of you played pretty well. Whoever put up the defense against my stab was really sharp, if Germany hadn't inconceivably intervened then I don't think I'd have won the game -- might have beaten Austria, but Lando and company in the West would have eventually figured their crap out and stopped me, I'm sure.

eh, man up and stop playing gunboat, : )

I took over the turn you stabbed. :-/

@ smily face guy - ok really random but even with your (:-/) face I still feel that you are happy because of your name

Hahahaha. That's funny. It's OK, I'm a pretty happy guy.