That's like asking if gin or vermouth is more important in a martini.

(grin) gin

No, it's like asking if heads or tails is better on a coin.

Completely relative.

it depends mostly on what country you are.

Maybe I shouldn't add this question to my "what type of DIplomacy player are you quiz"...

I agree with akilies. It depends on which country you are.

To a degree, it's a matter of your country - but even more than that, it's a matter of your situation.

Germany fighting England: Fleets are more important; Germany fighting France: Armies probably are more important.

Too situational to give a straight answer.

Fleets. No question. Almost universally, no one I've ever played with builds enough fleets.

are fleets really that valuable if you're playing as austria and trying to fight off russia?

it is entirely possible to build too many fleets no matter what power you are. Austria can always use more armies and doesn't need fleets until it is already an established power.

To add to my previous post- Armies can possibly be more vital(cept for england) because you are mostly connected to other countries by land. Because fleets can't go inland you could pick up the perimeter SC's but not really make conquests more inland.

@ Rumley- How many fleets is enough???

and i think i have a good amount in my game "bird of paradise"

I usually build (Even as Austria) about half and half. As England, I usually try not to build more than three.

I actually contest that fleets are less important for England as anyone else. You only need more fleets than either Germany or France has. (Or Russia, but what Russia ever gets a bunch of Fleets up north?)

Well your first mistake was to not convoy an army to Norway vs an impossibly stupid Russian opening to Livonia.

Your second was in Winter 1902, when you built two more fleets. You didn't need any more, unless you planned on attacking France (Which you obviously didn't.)

In 1904 you finally got it right and built some armies, realizing that once you took out Germany, unless you planned on stabbing France, your fleets would be worthless.

This game is a perfect example of why I say that you don't need that many fleets as England (Unless you want to attack France)

Usually four fleets is enough to effectively control the med or the atlantic. Sometimes you might end up with six as England and use a couple to tie up Sev.

France and Russia are probably the only countries that might need more than four since they have access to both the Atlantic and the Med.

There are exceptions to every rule though of course =)

The only exception is Russia... I usually don't build fleets as Russia... If Russia wins by water, they are doing something very, very wrong.

@rlumley

What? No.

A Russia that is allied to Austria (and even Turkey) needs to have a heavy fleet presence in the North to have a hope of winning. What are you smoking mate? :P

He is just flaunting his poor Russia skills. lol

I say that austria needs a lot of fleets, if it wants to completely dominate. Look at my past victories as Austria for proof.

I don't like Russian alliances in the South. As Turkey, I'll only ally with Russia if I take Sev and as Russia, I only ally with Turkey if he takes Sev.

But generally speaking, I build maybe one (Maybe two) fleet(s) in the North or south, in addition to the two I start with.

http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=10846
http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=11598 (This was a CD takeover sometime around 1902)
http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=8890 (I built a lot of fleets in this one, but only because armies would have been worthless - I was at a stalemate line.)

In looking at my wins, it's interesting, of nine, I have three with Russia and three with Austria...

Those are my three wins as Russia, btw. I guess I forgot to type that part.

My strategy as Russia is generally to go after either Germany and Scandinavia or Austria and Turkey, (until late game) you only need a couple fleets to make that happen. Usually in the other sphere I ask the other countries to support moves into them to disband those fleets.

Really, not an answerable question.

But you can't defend without armies, and you can't attack without fleets.

Notice how all of your answers point back to my "It's situational" statement? :3

Could someone check my stats, (I did them quickly).

There are 19 seas; 42 coastal regions (27 of which conatin Scs) ; and 14 land locked areas (7 of which contain SCs) . 9 fleets start the game as opposed to 13 Armies.

Some seas are critical, North Sea, Black sea and western med.

Fleets have a convoy function helping armies cover vast areas in addition to their other funtions of movement and support.

based on the above it would appear that fleets are more important generally, but as we all know, so much comes down to specific situations.

It's a pointless discussion. Fleets are pretty much useless without some armies as well. England might do ok for a while with all fleets and the one starting army, but they aren't likely to ever get a solo with that.

The way I see it is that fleets can help your armies but in the end fleets can only do that, be support units. Eventually you will have too many fleets and no need for them while armies (in my opinion) can always be used for something.

@rlumley- thanks for taking a look at my game, after i built my navy up i regretted building so many fleets, especially cause they now have no use, and as i am fighting a land battle against turkey i could use a bit more land force.