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Jamiet99uk (1307 D)
03 Dec 17 UTC
(+10)
MAFIA XXXIII ~ CALL OF THE WEST ~ GAME THREAD
((Please do not post in this thread unless you are a participant in the game))
Page 174 of 212
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TrPrado (461 D)
14 Dec 17 UTC
But I will say, I’m becoming considerably more confident that bozo is scum.
TrPrado (461 D)
14 Dec 17 UTC
FUCK. I meant to copy the case with CTRL-C, but accidentally hit shift. Thank god I had an earlier version copied. I’m using a google doc now.
RagingIke297 (142 D)
14 Dec 17 UTC
(+2)
**Co-Gm Anecdote:

Shift-X, shift-C and shift-V get me all the time. Notepad is the worst when that happens. You do not pass go, you do not get to undo, go directly to upset and depressed.
Foxcastle (100 D)
14 Dec 17 UTC
No Ctl-z to undo? That usually works for me...
TrPrado (461 D)
14 Dec 17 UTC
Almost done. It’s very helpful that bozo has basically stopped posting over time.
reedeer1 (100 D)
14 Dec 17 UTC
I just caught up reading. I am going to write up a comprehensive explanation for each of my reads today, but I have to do some stuf now.
I will also answer the questions that were posed to me.
TrPrado (461 D)
14 Dec 17 UTC
Alright so I'm finally getting around to writing my bozo case. Little slow, I know.

D1:

The biggest rebuttal I assume will be made against the case come from parts of bozo's voting record, specifically the fact he was on CB all of D1. As I mentioned a little bit ago, however, I don't think he deserves full credit for that. His reason for voting CB:

"A lot from CB already, he is doing a good job directing the early discussion, could be good scum play."

Uhhhh, scuse me? This was page 14, and justified a vote he wouldn't change all day based on what? Literally him talking a lot and it "may be good scum play." The wheels on the bus go round and round, as they say.

He then engages in backward justification. At one point rd says he is suspicious of votes on CB, and bozo responds:

"My vote for CB was because I thought he was spending a lot of time explaining his own play style."

He's trying to suggest here that his reason for voting for CB was something other than what I recently pointed to as his stated reason for that same vote. Backwards justification tends to be a scum activity. And rd points out the same thing, and bozo responds:

"@rdrivera: I did not want to give CB too much information at the time of my vote to see how he reacted. However, I believe the reason I gave would be consistent with scum play. CB is giving more early reads than he has done in the past, influencing the players that are getting discussed as possible scum."

Bit to unpack here. First, he says he wanted a reaction test, but then also goes on to give a SEPARATE reason for thinking CB was scum, that he doesn't fit with CB meta. So he's gone from:
CB is scum because he's talking a lot, to
CB is scum because he's explaining his meta, to
CB is scum because he doesn't fit with what I'm familiar with as his meta.

He's oozing backwards justification here, and reaffirms his vote based on whatever he can grasp onto. He was correct, but being privy to that knowledge for the whole day isn't absolvitory.

N1:

ghug pointed out bozo probably doesn't deserve credit for the CB vote, but still argues bozo is town. In response, bozo argues he DOES deserve credit (lmao). He then looks at the following list:
Players CB voted for:
ghug
rdrivera
SpiritoftheRadio
yavu​zovic
Tom
New England Separatist
sevenbrokenbricks
Ezio
damian
​himself

The five players CB said, early in the day, were the only players he would consider lynching:
Lama
Foxcastle
sevenbrokenbricks
New England Separatist
brainbomb

The players CB scum read when he was under pressure:
rdrivera
DO
Ezio
yavuzovic
​myself (bozo)

and concludes:
"That's 14 different players (not counting himself). I think it is safe to assume CB randomly threw is some of his fellow scum in these lists, so I do not think there is too much to be gained by looking at CB's suspects."

Well someone did end up analyzing a bit here. Vash pointed out N3 that:
"Demon only shows up on the lynch once as a scum read that CB never voted for."

Also interestingly, bozo himself fits the same criteria, and is the only other player to do so on the "scum read under pressure" list. No analysis, eh?

Actively encouraging no deep dive into connections is scummy. He gets torn to shreds over it, but treated like an idiot more than as scummy.
He then analyzes the list of people not on any of the others, corrects that bo should be on the vote list, and clears everyone who was absent from the other 3. Ghug townreads him for this.

D2:

As I previously pointed out, bozo falls in the line of thought that ghug claiming the gun means he’s likely town. You may be thinking:
“Well if bozo were scum he’d know ghug didn’t actually have the gun.”

While I understand this logic, I will provide a comprehensive list of the people that also used this logic:
bo_sox48
DemonOverlord

When ghug retracts his gun claim, bozo and Demon assert that if there is a gun out there the real holder probably is hiding it, and that ghug is still probably town for being so bold about fake claiming a gun. When Ezio is shot, bozo and Demon accuse eachother of shooting him, signalled by yavuzovic (though bozo asserts yavuz is still town). When yavuzovic reveals he himself had the gun, bozo says he thinks damian’s claim is suspicious because he finds it hard to believe that driver would switch scum with Tom.

After discussing with damian, bozo votes for yavuz because of some theory about brainbomb making yavuz think it’s a good idea. He then goes from here to full-on calling yavuz suspicious. This is shortly following him coming up with arguments about how yavuz could be town swapped with Tom, but he is simultaneously seeing a rush onto yavuz.
(I’m also just realizing bozo has been a much more active poster than I thought he had been, which is worrying in and of itself.)

At EOD he pushes the yavuz wagon over the bo wagon, specifically citing the tracker claim. He also encourages people (including bo at that point) to switch from Demon onto yavuzovic.

N2:

Bozo’s suspicions of Demon are walked back considerably. He claimed at EOD that he believed Maniac was probably correct about Demon, so this shift in behavior seems a bit out of left field.

D3:

Bozo now retracts his suspicions of yavuzovic with the brain flip. He is absent most of the day but makes it clear he feels Demon is not scum, but hedges a read on ghug.

This is a complete retreat of D2. Town tend to shift reads, but this is lacking in any explanation. He was absolutely determined that ghug could do no wrong D2, and that DO was the Devil Herself.

He’s gone for most of D3, but when Demon and ghug both claim doc, bozo votes ghug and brings it to 8-7, slightly closer to a tie.

N3:

He congratulates everyone who voted for Demon, then reaffirms people to vote for ghug. He tells snowy that he no longer thinks yavuz is scum, but hedges his read. He mostly interacts with HR.

Missed D4

N4:

Brings up a N1 argument that one of the people CB stayed neutral on was probably scum, from the list of:
Maniac, guak, snowy, Vash, and Vecna
He pushes guak in particular.

He also brings up EOD2 and the posturing of the scum with regards to yavuzovic, but he doesn’t do any helpful analysis. So he’s using up space to try and seem a lot more helpful than he’s actually being, which, again, is scummy.

D5:

He decides to focus on uber and reedeer, and asks reedeer why MamaLama was lurking. Becaus OBVIOUSLY he would be privy to that information…
He also votes for guak for lurking.

He is now going for yavuzovic based on Vash’s case, even though all of the information is stuff bozo himself has brought up quite a bit of these points and has gone back and forth on yavuzovic several times, and most recently still felt yavuz was clear.

I also find it highly hypocritical that he puts a lot of focus on lurkers, but his participation has SEVERELY dipped from the start of the game. That on top of all sorts of other scummy behaviors (unexplained flip flops, severe hedges, backwards justification, etc.) leave me in the mindset that he is likely scum himself.

As per his partner, the name that came up the most in this reread has been yavuzovic, which COULD be pretty damning, though I’m skeptical that all the scum would be so dumb as to tie themselves so obviously together. It may be likely a lurker such as uber or guak, but now I’m not particularly confident of anyone other than bozo.
RagingIke297 (142 D)
14 Dec 17 UTC
(+1)
@Foxcastle, where have you been the past 10 years of my life while I've been re-typing things unnecessarily?
TrPrado (461 D)
14 Dec 17 UTC
You see? I said I’d get it done within 48 hours.
One thing I don't get. You cite bo's actions for not voting for yav. But what about Demon. She literally thinks bussing is stupid and on the other days only voted for scum when it was apparent that the town wagon would not be lynched. Day 1 she voted for damian, and while she did vote fror ghug Day 3, that was only with like 11 minutes left after the HR and Spirit wagons had stalled out.
TrPrado (461 D)
14 Dec 17 UTC
So what pushes her to vote bo EOD2?
TrPrado (461 D)
14 Dec 17 UTC
Her opening vote was also on ghug. I would like evidence of the notion that she was as opposed to bussing as you claim.
Yeah, that case is trash. The only thing that seems scummy at all is the day 1 justification stuff. Many people were arguing with me about the logic of the driver swap (Flum being one of them). And you never pointed to why this stuff makes more sense as scum than town. And your big lynch pin is that he....changed his mind sometimes.....wow. Also bozo did reanalyze his list a few days later, did he not?
You mean the vote in the joke phase of the game, that was moved an hour and a half into the game. Also demon has made so much fun of HR for the game he bussed all his teammates and then got lynched himself. Because bussing is actually really fucking silly unless done on a god like level.
Look at this amazing bus guys:

"
Day-1 47:44
page 2 oh great now you're flirting, gross

##vote ghug

can we lynch him so i can focus on the game without him bothering me the whole time"
Anyway, I have a final exam to take. And another in the morning so...peace for now.
Fluminator (1500 D)
14 Dec 17 UTC
I do have a hard time reading bozo because as I said earlier he never shows human emotion.
But I get the feeling from many posts that he’s genuinely trying to work through this game and figure out who scum are. Some of his posts where he’s still trying to work out what happened several days ago seem to be posts clarifying things for himself, and not posturing.
I also felt like him subtly bragging about how he knew it was possible ghug was faking the gun as a towntell. If he knew all along, he wouldn't feel proud enough to brag about it.
I'll read your case more closely soon though.
TrPrado (461 D)
14 Dec 17 UTC
Vash:

It’s considerably better than your case lmao
TrPrado (461 D)
14 Dec 17 UTC
He changes his mind without explanation. It was a significant part, as I pointed out townies change their minds too, but they have reasons.. And it’s not the biggest part of it.

His trying to clear ghug with the gun, and his backward justifications were considerably more significant. The ONLY people who made his specific argument about how ghug couldn’t be scum were also scum, and even after the shot, bozo bent over backwards to say ghug was still town.
TrPrado (461 D)
14 Dec 17 UTC
Vash:

He also reanalyzed it the same night, contradicting himself on the matter. And your analysis of Demon using it condemns him just the same.
TrPrado (461 D)
14 Dec 17 UTC
The scum team fits neatly into a bow with bozo.
Foxcastle (100 D)
14 Dec 17 UTC
Have only skimmed this last page, will do a full read and make considerations in a few hours.

@RagingIke... Feel free to reward me with a game item, if you feel that the next ten years of your life are going to be better for it ;) Another gun could be a lot of fun at this point!
TrPrado (461 D)
14 Dec 17 UTC
Demon also voted for CB D1 at one point and advocated his lynch.

If you think she’s anti-bus, you’re sorely mistaken.
rdrivera2005 (3533 D(G))
14 Dec 17 UTC
I scumread Bozo all game in the last one and he was town. I am townreading him in this one so maybe he is scum. I found him scummy D1 but decided to not tunnel him this game. And after that we have other obvious target.
On his defense, I also strongly townread Ghug on D1/D2 even after the faking gun. And so do Damian that gave him a gun. His Maniac shot was what changed his faith.
rdrivera2005 (3533 D(G))
14 Dec 17 UTC
And Demon is strongly anti-bus, but this time she didn't have much options to avoid bussing.
TrPrado (461 D)
14 Dec 17 UTC
She has had several options against bussing. She chose to bus.
Fluminator (1500 D)
14 Dec 17 UTC
Has bozo been scum before?
TrPrado (461 D)
14 Dec 17 UTC
Not to my knowledge, but I’ve only played with him once.
TrPrado (461 D)
14 Dec 17 UTC
Just checked. He’s never been scum.
Bozo has always been town and always gets mislynched for doing some daft thing (like tying a vote right at EoD). He always immediately makes me want to lynch him, and he hasn't yet this time, but I'm conflicted if that means he's town and has learned to not be daft or if he's scum and has had the daftness couched out of him.

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