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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Jeff Kuta (2066 D)
30 Nov 17 UTC
Meanwhile, In Oklahoma...
And some people wonder why others don't trust the police.
8 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (57 D)
30 Nov 17 UTC
Trump endorses ultra-right UK racist hate group
"Britain First" is a white nationalist organisation active in the UK which promotes violence against Muslims and immigrants, whose founder openly advocated for a "religious war" on the streets of the UK.
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JamesYanik (548 D)
06 Dec 17 UTC
PR works well for democracies, FPTP for representative republics, especially when there are states with their own laws and customs.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
06 Dec 17 UTC
@"CroakandDagger
No deal is better than a bad deal. Kudos to the DUP."

No deal means WTO rules apply, sudden shock to the British and Irish economies. (Big deal for Ireland, both Republic and Northern, because of the amount of cross border trade - Massive deal for Britian, because your biggest trading partner is the EU).

Without either a commonwealth, Chinese, Indian, or EU trade deals the UK's economy is fucked.

This 'no deal is better than a bad deal' just seems like insanity. Any EU deals no longer applying to the UK is shite. WTO trade rules applying to the UK will screw your economy. And the Irish are the one EU member state who is most at risk from that - which is why the rest of the EU is backing us up on our position.

Basically the UK has just been shown to not be in a strong position. May was happy to make a deal on the Irish border issue, but it sounds like the DUP didn't get a copy pf the plan until monday morning... And they absolutely don't approve... Even though collapsing May's govt would risk a SNP-Labour-Lib dem coalition, which would not benefit the DUP even sligthly.
JamesYanik (548 D)
06 Dec 17 UTC
(+1)
@orathaic

you do understand that at this point, the EU's position on Britain is one of blackmail, right? Come back and give up a bit of sovereignty, or else we're going to impose trade barriers, sanctioned with the WTO.

On a separate note, it's interested how many people criticize Trump on wanting to put up tariffs, but are perfectly fine with the EU forcing people to choose between a common market and sovereignty control, vs. a restricted market and sovereignty.
CroakandDagger (670 D)
06 Dec 17 UTC
The UK is an import economy, WTO tariffs will do more good than harm to us if implemented.
Jeff Kuta (2066 D)
06 Dec 17 UTC
@JY: The United States is roughly equal to the entire EU in terms of population and GDP. Most European nations have decided to band together in order to have more power as a Union. Playing by a common set of rules is a good thing. Britons are used to the English, Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish nations behaving more or less in concert. Geography matters.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
07 Dec 17 UTC
@"you do understand that at this point, the EU's position on Britain is one of blackmail, right? Come back and give up a bit of sovereignty, or else we're going to impose trade barriers, sanctioned with the WTO."

The default is the automatic WTO rules... This isn't blackmail, the UK choose to stab itself in the foot. And everyone knew the EU would act to preserve it's integrity (all power acts to preserve itself) - they are only to see the UK's economy tank, if it means other countries will avoid leaving the EU... But then everyone always knew that is how the EU would act.

I don't see it as blackmail... And specifically talking about the Irish border, which the UK created in 1923, i can't help but feel that centuries of colonial policy coming back to bite them in the ass is somehow well earned.

@"On a separate note, it's interested how many people criticize Trump on wanting to put up tariffs, but are perfectly fine with the EU forcing people to choose between a common market and sovereignty control, vs. a restricted market and sovereignty."

Shared sovereignty, something the UK choose to go into. And the EU hasn't said they will not agree a trade deal, they have every reason to go ahead with a low tariff trade deal; we just haven't gotten to the point of negotiating one yet. The EU is simply pushing the UK around, because they are the ones who put themselves at a huge disadvantage.

Of course, i'm firmly of the opinion that the UK should negotiate a Brexit deal, and then let the public have a vote on said deal.

@Croakand... How does all your imports costing more do you any good?

CroakandDagger (670 D)
07 Dec 17 UTC
Because it discourages trade with the EU and they will lose us as customers if they don't agree to a FTA.
JamesYanik (548 D)
07 Dec 17 UTC
"The default is the automatic WTO rules..."

the default is a free market

the manipulation is the WTO.

saying "do this or else be subject to these rules" is blackmail essentially.

I mean, the PURE free trade advocates are only one step off of the unbridled globalist agenda here folks, I thought I'd get more shit from ND about this stance...
orathaic (1009 D (B))
07 Dec 17 UTC
(+1)
@C&D

Discouraging trade reduces efficiency. Buying from the cheapest source means whoever has the biggest advantage at making a product or service gets your business, which ideally is whoever is most efficient at that.

By cutting the UK off from EU business you do encourage entrepreneurs in the UK, who don't currently have a comparative advantage, to setup shop and make new things (goods/services), but the net effect is a reduction in efficiency.

@JY, no, in the absence of WTO rules, the EU could place tariff levels at whatever amount they wanted. Could basically cut UK exports into a fraction of what they are today... The Irish and British had a trade war in the, eh, 30s i think, it did no-one any good, but definitely hurt the Republic more than the larger economic player. This time the UK is the smaller one.

But WTO rules restrict what tariffs can be put on, so the EU can't strategically target British industries... Unfortunately this is still a worse position to out yourself in than being part of the common market. Not the EU's fault that the UK choose to go down this route.
Jamiet99uk (57 D)
07 Dec 17 UTC
Someone who understands the theory of comparative advantage. How refreshing. +1 Ora.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
08 Dec 17 UTC
I mean, you have to account for the transport cost, and in a fossil fuel era, the externalities brought with emmitting CO2, but yes. Comparative advantage - you should do the thing you are best at...
Octavious (1536 D)
08 Dec 17 UTC
@ ksako

There you go. An agreement has been fudged in a late night meeting in the finest traditions of European diplomacy. As was always going to be the case.

An interesting point for keen diplomacy players. The DUP made a big point of repeatedly saying they never "saw" any agreement prior to telling May no. When questioned by the BBC last night (or it may have been the night before) on whether they had been told what it was they avoided the question. So, what we gather is they never saw anything written down but they knew full well what was going on. It's all smoke and mirrors and theatrics.
ksako8 (1004 D)
08 Dec 17 UTC
I am very unclear on what has been agreed. Does the UK leave the SM and CU in name only?
Octavious (1536 D)
08 Dec 17 UTC
What's been agreed seems to be to not properly agree the details until later, but to smile and shake hands regardless. Extra creamy Christmas fudge :)
Octavious (1536 D)
08 Dec 17 UTC
But the highlights include a vague idea of how much will be paid, an undefined "role" for the European Court of Justice for 8 years, and (bear in mind I may have misunderstood this bit) what seems to be the end of a default hard Brexit if talks fail.
ksako8 (1004 D)
08 Dec 17 UTC
The latter I saw as well. Surprising. Brexit in name only?
CroakandDagger (670 D)
08 Dec 17 UTC
The Institutions were always going to betray the People over Brexit. Not really a surprise, but still disappointing.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
08 Dec 17 UTC
@CandD,
1) the referendum wasn't legally binding.

2) Leaving the EU but staying in the Common market and customs union, is still leaving the EU - yes you still have to apply almost all EU regulations, and you don't get a say in how those are applied; but it is a British Exit.

3) The people were not given a choice on what terms would be available after Article 50 was triggered, no-one voted for 'pure free trade' or 'WTO rules', or a 'EU free trade agreement' - because those were not optiond.

4) the govt doing its best to negotiate something is thus not a betrayal. Because what the public voted for is unclear.

Now IF you want a truely democratic decision, the Govt should continue negotiations, and then hold a second referendum on the actual deal. Something i seriously doubt will happen.

orathaic (1009 D (B))
08 Dec 17 UTC
@Octavious, the wording (even just of the irish border issue) was super vague.

This line: "In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the all- island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement."

Basically says that unless the EU agreed to a trade deal - which doesn't require a hard border between NI and the RoI - then the UK will continue to follow the rules of the common market. But then it goes on to say (in my reading) that it will only follow those rules (and any new future EU rules) where they support North-South cooperation or the all-island economy (for example, there is an all-island energy market, which makes sense for an Island with limited interconnectors to trade electricity across the Irish sea...).

But it is vague to the point of suggesting the UK will only follow EU rules where they are important to maintaining the economic realities on the Island of Ireland... Which, well imm not sure what that means in practice.

@CandD: This is actually a commitment to live up to obligations which the British government made to Ireland in the 1998 (good friday) agreement - you know, the peace process which has seen the majority of paramilitaries give up and destroy their weapons? 100% not betraying the people. Even if you'd prefer to ignore the fact that 6/32 parts of Ireland are still part of the UK.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
08 Dec 17 UTC
@"financial settlement will be drawn up and paid in euro."

Wow, the UK agree to pay the EU and monies owed in euro, which means that if the Sterling loses value (or should i say more value) against the euro over the next few years, then the bill will effectively increase... Better hope for a deal which protects the city of london's financial status and don't have markets react to the 'No deal is better than a bad deal' rhetoric by massive capital flight and collapse of the value of the Sterling.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
08 Dec 17 UTC
(See: https://g8fip1kplyr33r3krz5b97d1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/joint_report.pdf )
CroakandDagger (670 D)
08 Dec 17 UTC
Deals with the EU are functionally irrelevant when it comes to the Irish border. Do you know why? Because all the British government has to do is not maintain a hard border between northern ireland and the rest of the island.

If the EU wanted to implement a hard border in those circumstances despite the wishes of the RoI then that would be their choice. One likely to further alienate the RoI, sure, but when has alienating a member state ever been a concern for the EU?
CroakandDagger (670 D)
08 Dec 17 UTC
1) No, but it displayed the will of the people quite clearly.

2) Bull shit.

3) Whinging remoaners claiming that "people didn't know they were voting to leave the common market" are delusional. Both sides of the Brexit debate made arguments regarding the common market. Brexiteers said that we'd be better off out of it, and Remainers said if we left we'd be doomed.

4) The government doing its best to negotiate something would not be a betrayal, you're right. I would not describe the current pitiful shower as "Doing their best".
orathaic (1009 D (B))
09 Dec 17 UTC
@4 you over estimate something, either the competence of your own government (minority thay it is not withstanding), or their influence/power at the negotiating table (with what amounts to a bigger economy than China's, the EU trading block is second only to the US; and some figures place it ahead of the US, though after the UK leaves i doubt that will he the case any more).

Traditionally the UK has held a balanve of power with France and Germany at each other's throats, in the last half century it has been a united europe, and the UK's waning powr as the Empire dissolved around it, leaves you in a very weak position compared with the rest of europe backing up France and Germany.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
09 Dec 17 UTC
@"Because all the British government has to do is not maintain a hard border between northern ireland and the rest of the island. "

This is utter tripe.

What happens if, say, the EU bans neonicotinoids (to protect bee populations, for the sake of arguement). Now any produce made in the UK which is grown using a neonicotinoid can't be exported to the EU, and guess who has to enforce those rules?

If the Irish govt allows exports of food from Northern Ireland they want a guarantee that no neonicotinoids were used on said food, so you need a customs post along the border to check (not such a big deal for the rest of the a UK as shipments from a Britian can simply be stopped at existing sea and air ports and checked by the current customs services).

If Ireland didn't implement this, then we'd be subject to EU fines, and thus every vehicle carrying goods across the border would need to be stopped.

And setting up border check points like that would threaten the peace process, cost us lots, and hurt both economies. Nobody wants that to happen, not Theresa May, not the Irish govt, not any of the political parties in Northern Ireland.


295 replies
Qacper (1064 D)
06 Dec 17 UTC
(+1)
Why it is always German player
That never pushes ready in Gunboat games?
Like every single time if there is a player that saves his orders early on and waits 24 or 36 hours without pressing ready? Is there any rule that you should not slow game down? Or it is up to players if they want to iritate all others by making a retreat in full turn, and then disbanding the same army/fleet just after that in next full turn?
10 replies
Open
ND (627 D)
04 Dec 17 UTC
(+4)
Travel Ban
Looks like the Travel Ban is legal. Told everyone! #MAGA
http://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/363183-supreme-court-allows-full-trump-travel-ban-to-take-effect
194 replies
Open
Yoyoyozo (216 D Mod)
06 Dec 17 UTC
(+7)
Happy Birthday Bo_sox!!!
One of webdip's Admins, Bo_sox48 is turning 40 today! Help me in saying happy birthday to him!!!
37 replies
Open
SkiingCougar (671 D)
07 Dec 17 UTC
Account sitter for a week?
Hi, I'm going away for a week from tomorrow and won't be able to enter any moves, if anyone is able to log on everyday to my account and enter my moves for me, please message me.
Thanks
1 reply
Open
Hellenic Riot (1564 D (G))
06 Dec 17 UTC
(+6)
December GR Updated
http://tournaments.webdiplomacy.net/theghost-ratingslist
20 replies
Open
Yoyoyozo (216 D Mod)
07 Dec 17 UTC
Possible cheating loophole.
Is there a congressman I can talk to to run a scenario past about the new proposed tax plan..
9 replies
Open
Smokey Gem (210 D)
07 Dec 17 UTC
Possible cheating loophole.
Is there a mod I can PM to run a senario past..
1 reply
Open
ND (627 D)
29 Nov 17 UTC
(+1)
Landslide Victory
If President Trump and the Republicans pass the tax cuts then they are on their way to a landslide 2020 electoral victory (and 2018). Let's get it done! We can and will Make America Great Again!!!! #MAGA
244 replies
Open
President Eden (2427 D)
25 Nov 17 UTC
More gunboat musings, this time about opening strategy.
I hope some of the many GB players that are better than me have opinions about this, especially if they differ from mine.

I just finished my thoughts on the Western countries, I'll discuss the Eastern ones in a follow-up.
7 replies
Open
Smokey Gem (210 D)
05 Dec 17 UTC
Chess Computers ?
Has anyone designed a program that plays chess?
27 replies
Open
Condescension (10 D X)
06 Dec 17 UTC
Play this game
0 replies
Open
WyattS14 (0 D)
06 Dec 17 UTC
New medium pot gunboat (30 bet per)
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=212175
Enjoy
0 replies
Open
Fat backstab (75 D)
06 Dec 17 UTC
Cheating
Science dued has a second account please report him, he is scum
1 reply
Open
hellostu (103 D)
06 Dec 17 UTC
Starting a new game
Hello! Starting a new game with some friends, but we don't actually want to start the game till next week. But we want to all be registered and in the game. I've made the game but I don't want it to automatically start when we are all in. I've never made a game before, is that what will happen? Or can I leave the game open for a few days before I hit the "start" button?

Thanks!
3 replies
Open
Durga (781 D)
05 Dec 17 UTC
(+1)
FP Tournament?
Someone should run a full press tournament that I can participate in soon. Enough 1v1 crap pls
57 replies
Open
c0dyz (100 D)
06 Dec 17 UTC
America Game
Casual fun America game, sign up here
1 day phase, full press, anon players
7 replies
Open
Jeff Kuta (2066 D)
05 Dec 17 UTC
(+1)
Any cake artists out there?
I am the cake boss.
2 replies
Open
c0dyz (100 D)
05 Dec 17 UTC
Liberals vs. Conservatives Game
We did this once and it was pretty fun. It'll be really fun now.

2 day phases, America map, 5v5, draw size scoring.
29 replies
Open
brainbomb (456 D)
30 Nov 17 UTC
(+2)
Cereal
Share your favorite stories about cereal here.
38 replies
Open
jmotest888 (0 D X)
05 Dec 17 UTC
(+3)
Email Registration Fixed
Mods please ban this.

-jmo1121109
0 replies
Open
c0dyz (100 D)
05 Dec 17 UTC
Everybody chill
fuckin just chill out for a sec
4 replies
Open
dargorygel (320 D Mod (G))
05 Dec 17 UTC
(+2)
New Marvel Super Hero
"The Credible Hulk!" You wouldn't like me when I'm angry because I back up my rages with verifiable facts!
0 replies
Open
Smokey Gem (210 D)
05 Dec 17 UTC
gameID=211605 question
Hi this game was paused for investigation..
4 replies
Open
Ogion (4699 D)
01 Dec 17 UTC
Trump will die in prison.
Reports today that Mike Flynn, National security advisor, has pled guilty to lying to the FBI and will testify that Donald J Trump ordered him to work with the Russians to sabotage US elections
Discuss
96 replies
Open
Any mods around - Live game
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=212050

Please, react. :-)
4 replies
Open
Ogion (4699 D)
04 Dec 17 UTC
Seeking substitute
Good position for a California player:

webdipmod@gmail.com
1 reply
Open
FoohonPie (100 D)
02 Dec 17 UTC
(+2)
Greetings from reddit.
Hi everybody, I help mod a subreddit called /r/PBBG. It's meant for persistent browser based games like webDiplomacy.

We're showcasing webDiplomacy this week, and I wanted to reach out to you guys for anything you'd like to add.
20 replies
Open
Maniac (344 D (B))
02 Dec 17 UTC
Advice please: Building an app
I'm considering a new business venture and a small part of that involves me either building or someone building an app for me. I've never done this before, should I go and try it myself or pay the pros to do it?
10 replies
Open
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