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Hellenic Riot (1574 D (G))
21 Sep 17 UTC
Replacement Ghana Needed
3 replies
Open
podium (498 D)
15 Aug 17 UTC
(+1)
Fantasy Football Time
Let's get this thing started up again.
We had a great group last year. Maybe we can recruit a few more players this year.
Post here if you want in.
Think Aug 27 or Sept 3 are good to host draft. We can discuss other dates if you wish.
88 replies
Open
infinitybutts69 (914 D)
22 Sep 17 UTC
In search of fun folk for a Friday evening fight
gameID=206945

Start your weekend off with the sweet taste of victory, why dontcha?
0 replies
Open
brainbomb (474 D)
28 Jul 17 UTC
(+12)
Webdip Sci-Fi Simulator 2 Sign Ups
It is 2094. Earth is a ruined planet. You and your fellow colonists must choose a planet - settle it, trade, deal with bandits/aliens/inclement weather/droughts/famine/disease/ and intruige. You hire people to assist (droids, experts, and merceneries), manage your economy and make your name in the universe. The signup is open to anyone. There is no maximum number who can play. Phases shift every 48 hours. Game will begin Aug 1st......See inside for more details....
2854 replies
Open
JamesYanik (548 D)
19 Sep 17 UTC
Protests turn to Riots at Georgia Tech after Shooting
https://www.rt.com/usa/403757-georgia-protests-student-death/
JamesYanik (548 D)
19 Sep 17 UTC
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/18/us/georgia-tech-student-killed/index.html

there are some questions that still need to be asked. the police don't have issued tasers, which i guarantee is going to be policy proposed in georgia after this. but a bigger question, a suspect with a knife who is clearly agitated is trying to provoke police into shooting... how much of a burden do we put on the police to deescalate the situation? why not shoot for the legs? was there a suspected narcotic at play (which would explain the body shot instead)?

but another twist to the story here is that OF COURSE instead of having just a nice peaceful vigil, violence has to erupt, people with masks seen, 3 arrested, and 2 police cars torched.

so not only is this entire situation moving towards politicization, actual questions and reform aren't going to be talked about





oh, and i almost forgot, this is your daily reminder not to turn this TOO political

https://puu.sh/xDngQ/857f5e3e92.png
https://puu.sh/xDng9/4bc09ba0fa.png
Stressedlines (1530 D)
19 Sep 17 UTC
(+1)
IN general, police are not trained to shoot for legs. As someone who has been shooting their whole life, a leg shot is very iffy, even at the range they were at You have to be calm, exact, and hope at the last moment the target isnt moving said leg. Chests cant swivel the same way, and that is why they are trained to target that area. It is a high % shot, that is a stopper.

I am not a police officer, just been thru a lot of military training with MPs, and they are trained similar.

Also, you dont use a non-lethal response (taser) vs a lethal weapon (knife) That is not ever going to happen, so we can move onto the next argument in this.
Condescension (10 D X)
19 Sep 17 UTC
He didn't have a knife, he had a pocket knife which didn't have the blade extended.
Stressedlines (1530 D)
19 Sep 17 UTC
(+1)
regardless, he was asked to drop it. The problem is that someone called in a Gun and a knife, and that is what they are going to assume he had. This is VERY simple Comply with what the police asked Drop whatever it was, and let this get sorted out Do not advance on them. Dont make excuses for this person, they did everything in the world wrong.

and a pocketknife is still a knife, regardless of whatever wordplay you want to go with. Leg shots however are NOT going to happen, too much chance involved in that one, and the adrenaline pumping on both sides, makes that a tough shot.
Randomizer (100 D)
19 Sep 17 UTC
There were three security guards there and two of them didn't fire. Sure the victim was asking to be killed, but there was no reason that the third couldn't have backed off and waited with the others except poor training.
KansasBoyd (25 D X)
19 Sep 17 UTC
(+2)
Just another peaceful, non violent protest from the liberals.
CroakandDagger (675 D)
19 Sep 17 UTC
(+1)
Thank god only one side is filled up with hate, that's what I always say.
goldfinger0303 (2200 D Mod)
19 Sep 17 UTC
(+1)
While Stressedlines is right that 1) Shooting for the legs is not going to happen and 2) In most cases a cop will not use a non-lethal weapon when the suspect has a lethal one (remember, they only know what the dispatcher told them, and dispatcher said gun. It could've been hidden somewhere for all they know)

However, there are many, many cases of people who wish to commit suicide by cop not getting their wish. There are ways to de-escalate the situation that were clearly, and unfortunately, not used.
Randomizer (100 D)
19 Sep 17 UTC
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/18/us/georgia-tech-student-killed/index.html

Call to police was by the victim. His only weapon was a multipurpose tool which was closed and his hands were at his side in a non threatening position. Police assisted suicide. Then the police contradicted the video to claim a cause.
JamesYanik (548 D)
19 Sep 17 UTC
@Randomzier

1. it was not closed, we can't tell from the video. all we have is a picture after the fact showing it laying open but without a knife blade extended.

2. police reports said he seemed very close to a mental breakdown, and the fact that he had written several suicide notes supports this. if you're dealing with someone who is mentally unstable, the "non threatening position" is a VERY volatile state.

3. he approached the officer when she said NOT TO MOVE. many times in a row, he was told to drop the weapon and not to move. the fact that he did not do this was one of the worrying signs for the police, especially since the suspect was immediately identified as mentally unstable

4. Schultz was about 8 feet away from the cop when the shot was fired, i'm using the video for reference, maybe it's 9 feet, but it's not very far at all. in self defense classes with guns, there's something known as the 21 foot rule. if someone is within 21 feet of you with a knife, they're more likely to be able to approach and stab you before you can unholster and draw your firearm. there's also a rule that's less well known, but still is taught at 10 feet. if someone is moving towards you and is within 10 feet away, they can close the distance and attack you if you miss or do not hit on center mass with one shot.

5. straight out of the CNN article:

"Georgia Tech Police officers responded to a 911 call at 11:17 p.m. Saturday reporting a suspicious person on the Atlanta campus. The caller said the person -- described as a white male with long blond hair, white T-shirt and blue jeans, possibly intoxicated -- was holding a knife and possibly a gun."

Schultz set this up. it was very obviously suicide by cop, but Schultz added in not only a reference to gun and knife in his call: which increases the risk, but ALSO said that the person was possibly intoxicated. if the police get to the scene and see someone who is acting more mentally unstable than intoxicated, they might suspect narcotics are in play. the unresponsiveness of Schultz in the video can also corroborate this at first. with many drugs, even a shot to the chest won't bring someone down. the phone call made by Schultz to the police ensured they came armed, and were unwilling to get close to Schultz.
Randomizer (100 D)
19 Sep 17 UTC
Schultz, according to police, kept asking the police to shoot him.

Police already had guns drawn and aimed, so response time was less. It was well lit and since it was a parking garage entrance there was clear room to back up.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
20 Sep 17 UTC
(+1)
That is a really shitty situation.

But lets discuss mental health if that is what this is. Any suicide is a tragedy. preventative healthcare should have been available to help reduce the frequency of suicides.

You may want to focus on policing, and there are clearly some situations where police responce is problematic. But ideally we avoid getting into a situation where people who need medical help get killed by police instead.

Society will be better off if police can spend their time dealing with malicious people rather than with mentally ill people. Increase spending on trained mental health professional. Have a serious discussion about suicide, and how we as a society treat people who have - for whatever reason - been unable to function in our society. Humans are not naturally city dwellers, we should not be surprised there are social illnesses created by our very fast cultural development. Look at history over the last 500 years, social structures have changed more in that time than any other time in human history. We don't evolve that fast, but we have evolved brains which can respond flexibly to different environments, which makes us one of the most adaptive species on earth.

Still we're not perfect. As a society we should take responcibility for the environment we created. And minimise the circumstance where tragedies like this one occur.

If you want to talk about police militarization and training, find an example where you don't have a medical failure at its' root.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
20 Sep 17 UTC
On the other hand, the rioting is unsurprising. Police are a highly political, gun control isn't something people want to talk about, but in a society with free access to firearms it is inevitable that police will be trained to deal with armed suspects.

I am very lucky to live in a society where, for the most part, we don't see armed police because it is not necessary. The majority of police is done by unarmed police, and only special responce units are even trained in their use (for use against organised crime and para-military terrorist - who for the most part have been included in the political process in Northern Ireland, so have put down their arms - and destroyed them; and thank you to general John de Chastelain).

Ireland does have the same shitty issue with mental health care, but we don't have any recorded incidents of suicide by cop, probably because it would be rather hard to achieve when all the police you're likely to meet are unarmed.
KansasBoyd (25 D X)
20 Sep 17 UTC
Great posts.

Increased mental health care is far better solution than banning guns, but unfortunately not a solution that the liberal mass media and left wants to push and march in the streets over.

Curing the cause of the problems is a far better, far sighted/broad view solution than trying to fix the responses.

But what do I know. I have crazy, narrow minded views like racism exists everywhere and not just one isolated group.
Stressedlines (1530 D)
20 Sep 17 UTC
at least this is a civil conversation going on.

Lets leave the gun-control part of of this, as nobody is changing anyone elses mind on it, so we can move onto the metal health issues.

Access to illegal guns are easy enough, even in Europe I know in Germany guns are quite easy to buy illegally as they come across from Eastern Europe.

This individual wanted to die, and thought to make a political statement doing it. If I want to die, I am going out alone, and on my terms, not a cop.
CroakandDagger (675 D)
21 Sep 17 UTC
No, don't go out on your terms, you have so much to live for.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suicide_crisis_lines
orathaic (1009 D (B))
21 Sep 17 UTC
@"Increased mental health care is far better solution than banning guns"

It is not one or the other. Those are solution to different problems. You want to solve the mental health crisis and reduce the number of suicides, do X. You want to solve the gun-crime/death by homicide/cop, do Y.

IF you see it as a problem that police are forced (in situations like this) to assume an armed and dangerous individual, then you need to address the under lying availability of guns in your society (maybe form well regulated militias, and ban gun ownership/use outside of militia training and practice).

This may be an intersection of two problems, but it isn't a question of which solution is 'better' it is a question of which problem you want to tackle.

@"Curing the cause of the problems is a far better, far sighted/broad view solution than trying to fix the responses." - Agreed. And part of the issue here, is that death by cop is an effective way to commit suicide in the US.

If you can re-train cops to de-escalate situations then that is fantastic. And maybe that is what Scout Shultz would have wanted. Maybe there are less lethal person-stoppers than bullets (which would wind a person if you hit them in the stomach/chest and put them down but not kill them). Maybe tasers would have been more appropriate in this cases. I don't know.

Reducing the need for militarized police, and even armed police, would help address several political issues, such as the complaints BLM have raised. And this situation would never have happened. But either way, you're talking about very serious changes to your culture (whether you look at mental health care, or gun violence - both by police and on police). I don't think the US has the capacity to have a conversation about either topic.

Though at least individual states can implement reforms of their mental health care responce, needing only a state wide conversation. Which is much more practical.
KansasBoyd (25 D X)
21 Sep 17 UTC
"It is not one or the other"

Never even remotely hinted that it was.

" And maybe that is what Scout Shultz would have wanted."

The reality that not one, but three suicide notes, would be evidence that Scout got exactly what he wanted.

Banning guns would have a very small impact on gun violence seeing as the large majority of gun violence is committed by criminals possessing guns illegally already.

The areas of this country that have the largest amount of gun violence already have some of the strictest gun regulations in this country.

Guess what though? Criminals don't care about the laws.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
21 Sep 17 UTC
@""It is not one or the other"

Never even remotely hinted that it was.
"

You said A is far better than B. Which entirely suggests you see A as a solution not B.

They are both good solutions, for completely seperate problems.

@"Banning guns would have a very small impact on gun violence seeing as the large majority of gun violence is committed by criminals possessing guns illegally already. "

"The areas of this country that have the largest amount of gun violence already have some of the strictest gun regulations in this country."

This is so twisted. Because legal guns are easy to acquire there are lots of guns going around on second hand markets which are harder to regulate. IF guns were heavily restricted, you would find it much harder to acquire illegal guns.

And the areas with the highest gun violence decided to enact strict gun control laws because the violence was so high. Has it worked? I'm going to say, kinda - see: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/nyc-historically-number-shootings-2016-article-1.2933098

But it is very hard to measure as the strict gun controls are not the only factor at play here. So i don't think there is enough evidence.

But if you anted to get guns off the streets of your most violent cities, you would face the major problem of having to reduce gun availability 'just over state lines' or outside of city jurisdictions. Because you can't curtail the movement of people and start putting up checkpoints for people carrying guns into or out of cities... so long as the majority of the US has guns widely available, this will continue to be a problem.

@"Guess what though? Criminals don't care about the laws."

Now imagine guns can only be acquired in Mexico, and mexican gun runners are secretly trying to smuggle them across the border (because lots of criminals in the US would, as you put it, not care about the laws). Then you are entirely free to set up special armed task forces to intercept those smugglers.

That said, I suspect the US will never chose to give up the gun, because it is deeply tied to your national identity and independence.
KansasBoyd (25 D X)
21 Sep 17 UTC
"You said A is far better than B. Which entirely suggests you see A as a solution not B. "

No. it is exactly what I said it was. A far better solution.

Not the only solution. Had I meant it was the only solution I would have said A is a solution and B is not a solution.

Legal guns are used in only about 3% of crimes.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/oct/05/joe-scarborough/msnbcs-joe-scarborough-tiny-fraction-crimes-commit/

The major flaw in your theory is that your theory assumes that banning guns eliminates the supply of guns that are already on the streets.

It doesn't.

Just because a ban of guns happened, do you really think all the street gangs, drug dealers/cartels and other criminals will say "oh wow, I guess we should just hand these over now"? Lol

It is already illegal for them to possess the guns they have in their possessions, so what difference will putting them on double secret probation make?

BTW, the US Govt already tried to stop the flow of illegal guns into Mexico and the cartels there. Know what their plan was? They allowed the sale of 2000 firearms to happen and the guns to go to Mexico where they would confiscate them.

The results? Hundreds of Mexicans killed by these weapons and one Border Patrol agent with less than half the guns retrieved and zero high level cartel arrests.

Placing a ban on something is one thing. Enforcing the ban is a totally different thing.

A ban of guns will only punish the legal and innocent owners of guns.
KansasBoyd (25 D X)
21 Sep 17 UTC
"Now imagine guns can only be acquired in Mexico, and mexican gun runners are secretly trying to smuggle them across the border (because lots of criminals in the US would, as you put it, not care about the laws). Then you are entirely free to set up special armed task forces to intercept those smugglers. "

Good idea. Cause we are already so good at intercepting and stopping the flow of drugs into the country lol

Let's give those task forces even more things to look for.
KansasBoyd (25 D X)
21 Sep 17 UTC
As you said yourself, scale matters.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
21 Sep 17 UTC
"It is already illegal for them to possess the guns they have in their possessions, so what difference will putting them on double secret probation make?"

Well if you were going to transition to a low gun society, yo'd probably want to bring in an amnesty for anyone wanting to hand in illegally held weapons. Where they aren't punished if they give up their weapons within a certain time period, and the punishment after that is much worse.

Probably people other than me with more experience would be better at talking about a transition plan (though Ireland did go about transition from having many paramilitaries to decommissioning most of those weapons and having those groups engaged in the political process...). My main argument is that in societies which already have very few guns, this kind of interaction with police doesn't happen. In fact you don't have police accidentally killing innocent people at all.

And yes, actually being able to target illegal guns effectively would be a major concern.
KansasBoyd (25 D X)
21 Sep 17 UTC
"Well if you were going to transition to a low gun society, yo'd probably want to bring in an amnesty for anyone wanting to hand in illegally held weapons. Where they aren't punished if they give up their weapons within a certain time period, and the punishment after that is much worse."

They already do that in many major cities where you can turn in guns no questions asked unless in exchange for sports tickets or gift cards or something like that once or twice a year.

There is also probably very few societies who have the armed criminal possessing illegal guns. In most major cities, the gangs are actually far better armed than the police are. Armed with weapons obtained illegally.

While no one wants to see the police kill innocent people (fewer actually than what the media brainwashes people with) the number of those incidents is an incredibly small percentage of police interactions. Probably somewhere in the .00001 percent range. Life is human and while the outcome is terrible mistakes happen and will never be eliminated. And before someone completely exaggerates my comments, that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to improve.

But taking guns away from the police is not the answer when there are the number of illegal guns we have on the street in dangerous people's possession.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
22 Sep 17 UTC
'But taking guns away from the police is not the answer when there are the number of illegal guns we have on the street in dangerous people's possession.'

worked in ireland after our civil war...
KansasBoyd (25 D X)
22 Sep 17 UTC
"worked in ireland after our civil war... "

And that was what, 1923???

Not quite the same nearly 100 years later and with hundreds of gangs more heavily armed than anything seen back then.

Also Ireland has a total population that might not crack the top five metro populations of cities in this country.

Remember, scale matters.


26 replies
brainbomb (474 D)
21 Sep 17 UTC
(+1)
Booty Shorts
Is it acceptable for me to wear these all year or only in warm times. And since global warming isnt real- can I just wear these during un-winter
10 replies
Open
brainbomb (474 D)
19 Sep 17 UTC
(+2)
Whos butt do you have to grab to get a game going on this site?
Ive tried to post invites to two different dip games this past week and as far as I can tell theres 5 forum games going, the mod team keeps offering only elitist top GR 100 games or huge pot games nobody outsode the upper ten % could join. So basically is anyone still playing fuckin diplomacy here or what?
21 replies
Open
Namejeff (10 D X)
20 Sep 17 UTC
Rubix Cube
Who here knows how to solve a Rubix cubes
13 replies
Open
CdnPearson (268 D)
20 Sep 17 UTC
Webdip points question
If a player abandons/leaves a game and no one takes over their position, is that player still included in draws to end the game? Do they get a split of the webdip points from the game?
5 replies
Open
Zach0805 (100 D)
19 Sep 17 UTC
Hurricane Maria
Hurricane Maria became a Category 5. Dvorak T 7.4(If you get that thumbs up), Pressure 925, Winds 160.

Im waiting for the "Global Warming's fault" comments.
20 replies
Open
brainbomb (474 D)
14 Sep 17 UTC
Jar Jar Binks appreciation thread
Post your favorite Jar Jar moments herr
11 replies
Open
Anneal (316 D)
18 Sep 17 UTC
(+1)
How to play Cuba in Empire4?
Cuba is not very defensive and shares very few alliance options. More in response below.
5 replies
Open
brainbomb (474 D)
15 Sep 17 UTC
(+1)
Rhyme Time III
Welcome my old friends, to the shitshow that never ends. Diplomacy is tedius and gunboat you cant coordinate - join along and mast- (woops) Rhyme Time all your press is poetic! To join this game YOU MUST BE PATHETIC, Have a shitty RR moist from diuretics.
11 replies
Open
Fluminator (511 D)
14 Sep 17 UTC
Let's talk about STDs
There's been a lot of political tension on this forum lately. Let's talk about something else instead.
What's your opinion on the different STDs?
33 replies
Open
MajorMitchell (984 D)
19 Sep 17 UTC
RIP Cassini ..the little space craft that flew to Saturn
What a wonderful triumph of Science and Engineering.
15 replies
Open
Condescension (10 D X)
14 Sep 17 UTC
New game for lefties
I'd like to make a game for lefties only.

Oh wait, that's just the top 100 game.
38 replies
Open
Aegon I Targaryen (100 D)
20 Sep 17 UTC
Live gunboat
Lets get a game going. Set one up to start in 5 mins gameID=206769. If it doesn't work out I'll make another to start 10 mins after
4 replies
Open
brainbomb (474 D)
19 Sep 17 UTC
Brainbombs fall classic III
Looking to start a 2 day/phase semi-anon full press classic.
7 replies
Open
Smokey Gem (204 D)
15 Sep 17 UTC
The best weapon against an enemy is another enemy.
is Nietsche correct ??
9 replies
Open
zultar (3900 D Mod (P))
11 Sep 17 UTC
(+2)
Top 100 GR complete anon game 2-day phase DSS
Hello all,

I've been asked to post a completely anonymous top-100 GR game. It's 2-day phase DSS to start in 9 days. If you are interested, please PM me with your overall GR. Please do not post in the forum. If there are questions, let me know.
21 replies
Open
Durga (1187 D)
18 Sep 17 UTC
Non-Anon, 4 day phase, SoS, HDV
Hey I'm hosting a game because what could be better to do than play dip when you're buried in work and don't have time for anything? gameID=206645

PM me for password if you're in. It's gonna be chill and fun, if you've never played with me I encourage you to join.
7 replies
Open
Stressedlines (1530 D)
16 Sep 17 UTC
what if rome does not fall
If corruption and internal fighting do not bring it to its knees, where would the world be today?
2 replies
Open
brainbomb (474 D)
05 Sep 17 UTC
Hurricane Irma Category 5
Irma is the largest Atlantic Basin hurricane in NHS history.
439 replies
Open
Condescension (10 D X)
17 Sep 17 UTC
Class warfare GR game
I am interested in playing an anonymous, DSS, public draw vote open press game, with one player in each of the following categories:
11 replies
Open
Condescension (10 D X)
17 Sep 17 UTC
Secret Hitler
Would anyone be interested in playing Secret Hitler over the forum? I'd be able to GM.

It's similar to Mafia, but better in every way. You should be able to find the rules online.
52 replies
Open
NManock18 (0 D X)
16 Sep 17 UTC
Question
How do you leave a game that's in progress?
6 replies
Open
Valis2501 (1915 D (G))
16 Sep 17 UTC
(+1)
Boston Massacre starts today
Shoutouts to all the webDip members who could make it, and especially to Abge and RLH and 2WL for their thankless efforts in organizing.
8 replies
Open
brainbomb (474 D)
16 Sep 17 UTC
(+1)
Juggalo March on Washington
https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/351013-the-best-signs-from-the-juggalo-march-in-washington%3famp
11 replies
Open
ubercacher16 (443 D)
14 Sep 17 UTC
(+2)
New game for...
New game for those who share the same general political ideology as me.
62 replies
Open
NManock18 (0 D X)
17 Sep 17 UTC
Variation
Can people post links to website that they use to design their own webdip variation? Thanks!
1 reply
Open
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