Congratulations to 2018 World Diplomacy Champion, Andrew Goff, and to everyone else who participated in the Championship this weekend!

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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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teh_duke (814 D)
19 Aug 17 UTC
technical issues
anyone else having technical issues with the site at the moment? i cant put in orders and more often than not the site wouldnt even load or refresh
4 replies
Open
michael_b (192 D)
19 Aug 17 UTC
"New Game" page needs correction.
When creating a game and selecting the pre-phase length, the description says up to 5 days but the dropdown gives only up to 2.5 days.
1 reply
Open
zultar (3900 D Mod (P))
16 Aug 17 UTC
(+8)
Forum rule reminders
See inside.
68 replies
Open
VashtaNeurotic (639 D)
18 Aug 17 UTC
(+4)
Bannon is Out
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/18/politics/steve-bannon-white-house/index.html
28 replies
Open
Lord Bolton (409 D)
09 Aug 17 UTC
(+1)
Leaving the grey arrow
Is there any bigger asshole than the guy who's doomed to defeat and puts in his moves with a grey arrow so that everyone has to wait a day or more each phase? Of course everyone goes out of town sometimes or is unable to get to the site for some reason, but someone who does it faithfully every turn should be banned. It's the behavior of a crybaby.
22 replies
Open
Durga (710 D)
27 Jan 17 UTC
(+14)
Daily Trump News Thread
Instead of having 17 threads each time he does something new, let's have this one so anyone that doesn't want to deal with Trump can just mute it! (ps is it possible to self mute?)
2466 replies
Open
ND (722 D)
18 Aug 17 UTC
George Washington
Should statues of George Washington be taken down? This is being debated in Chicago.
https://youtu.be/1t96yjrZRrk
40 replies
Open
Ogion (3982 D)
13 Aug 17 UTC
Is everyone scared
To even bring up the neo Nazi terrorist attack in Charlottesville today, and the fact that the President made the weakest denunciation of terrorism ever, )except perhaps for his non response to the attacks in Quebec and Minnesota)
286 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D (B))
17 Aug 17 UTC
Anarchists in the US
"if we possess any sort of freedom today in this society, it is the result of all the times people defied and overthrew governments, not because of the times they were obedient. If not for disobedience, we would still be living under the rule of kings."

from this: https://itsgoingdown.org/statues-fall-uproot-pedestals-promise-direct-action/
4 replies
Open
CommanderByron (569 D Mod (S))
17 Aug 17 UTC
(+1)
Completely unrelated to nazis thread.
*sigh*
23 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D (B))
16 Aug 17 UTC
Alt-left?
Interesting article describing the use of this term:
https://newrepublic.com/article/144361/liberals-helped-create-trumps-new-bogeyman-alt-left
orathaic (1009 D (B))
16 Aug 17 UTC
But is the conclusion correct? Should the activist left (as the author calls them) not be able to reclaim the name.

I mean the 'alt-right' were able to rebrand themselves as such, and many a group has taken insults and turned them into a badge of honour (see examples like Toronto's slut walk, and Queer pride). So should we yse the term alt-left?

And what should it stand for?
orathaic (1009 D (B))
16 Aug 17 UTC
Personally, if i saw groups supporting Bernie Samders, antifa, BLM and others, peacefully coming together under the banner of 'Alt-left' i doubt this would he a bad thing.

Standing for an end to racism (BLM), improved access to healthcare (single payer system in the US, which i'm sure Sanders supporters would love), and a (peaceful) solution to Trump's fascistic government (antifa?).

What are the things Liberals hate the most? Progressive democratic socialists, like Bernie? Fair access to healthcare? Redistribution of wealth to pay for preemptive trestments (which reduce overall cost of healthcare). A massive reform of the criminal justice system? Read about prison abolition, about restorative justice, about the size of the prison population in the US (compared with other developed countries). Read about the prison-industrial complex, ie privatised prisons.
Training to reduce police brutality and racism? Investment in education?
Protecting the environment, and action against climate change? (Or is the a liberal policy??) an end to austerity policies and bank bailouts, which have hurt working class people across the 'developed' world.

What am i missing?
JamesYanik (548 D)
16 Aug 17 UTC
this is why i don't like labels, they're way too subjective. but the alt-left is much less defined than the alt right, the alt right are basically fascistic racists. the problem is there is an anti-SJW fringe element of the alt-right, and the fringe is actually ideologically benign and is single issue drive: which is social conservatism.

actual free markets policy and healthcare policy don't matter as much. i.e.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwSYhTWk6E8

10:27
"but all of those identities are ultimately toothless. ultimately meaningless. they're ultimately early integrated into the global capitalist consumerist system."

figurehead of the alt-right, not super globalize free market capitalism.


as for the alt left they have much more flexibility, but as they become more and more mainstreamed, despite what their true demographic ACTUALLY are, they'll be lumped in with whatever the MSM decides it is.

if you want to associate with it now in it's developmental stages that's fine, but if they assume a figure head to work around, then you'll have a less arbitrary group

but the author is wrong, "reclaiming" it isn't even a problem, the alt left could be legitimately good
orathaic (1009 D (B))
16 Aug 17 UTC
I guess the author is worried about what the Liberals are doing (the work of the right if you ask him), to de-legitimize the 'alt-left'.

But it is inevitable that any group organising on the left (left of center, where i see liberals as centerists, pro-Obama, pro-Clinton, pro-military-industrial complex) - they will inevitably fall victim to 'Liberals' attacking them (verbally) because they represent a threat to the democratic party's base, or a swing to the left which they fear...
ND (722 D)
16 Aug 17 UTC
(+2)
the alt-left is a dangerous collection of violent extremists (antifa, blm, + others) and they should be condemned just like the alt-right. Violence and extremism on both sides should be condemned absolutely.
Ogion (3982 D)
16 Aug 17 UTC
Ideologically benign? There is nothing benign about denying people's humanity and equality and standing up for white supremacy. What a joke
Ogion (3982 D)
16 Aug 17 UTC
And antifa are pretty different from those other groups. Antifa came about as a militia to oppose the brownshirts in the 1920s in Germany by violent means. The antifa today are still a militia to use black bloc tactics to attack neonazi militias.

That's utterly different from progressives and BLM, 350.org, etc.
Ogion (3982 D)
17 Aug 17 UTC
And "altleft is a slur for anyone you don't like, basically. Each of the quotes is referring to entirely different groups and each is an attempt to marginalized them
JamesYanik (548 D)
17 Aug 17 UTC
(+2)
@Ogion

no no no, not the white supremacists, the shitposting teenagers are the most ideologically benign, and the shitposting teenagers make up the fringe of the alt right
StevenC. (1030 D (B))
17 Aug 17 UTC
(+2)
As I recall, the term alt-right was coined by Richard Spencer. Alt-left is a term used to mock the militant far-left who seem to mirror the alt-right in a variety of ways. I've also seen the term alt-left being thrown around way before Trump said it.
wpfieps (450 D)
17 Aug 17 UTC
(+1)
I just held down the Alt key on my keyboard and pressed the Left character. Oddly enough, the forum scrolled to an Ogion posting and Barbara Streisand music started playing out of the speakers. I guess it really was time for a newly improved forum, huh.

And for the record, I pressed the Alt-Left keys very gently. I wouldn't want anyone to mistakenly think that I was punching the keys.

#BanMajorMitchell
Ogion (3982 D)
17 Aug 17 UTC
:D. Nicely done wpfieps
Ogion (3982 D)
17 Aug 17 UTC
Yeah the "alt-left" is just like them. After all wanting universal health care and to end the corporate stranglehold of the American economy is just like wanting to kill all black people and beating them up to show it.

Give me a break steven

You know what Kos' beef with the "alt left" in that article is? He complains that a lot of white liberals want to shift the Democratic Party to a stronger economic message to win back working class white voters. He feels that isn't suitably deferential to minorities. That's who he thinks of as the alt-left

The corporatist think that the Sanders wing's pitching of universal health care and decent funding for higher education will lose elections big time, ignoring the fact that the Clinton corporate wing have led the Democratic Party to historical GOP dominance and lost the White House to the most disliked candidate of all time.

That article is notable because each speaker is referring to an entirely different group of people to smear them for entirely different reasons and bases.

I don't even know what the alt-left would be. Maybe it's the antifa black block guys. But they're not really that leftist, they're just anti fascist.

Or it's just another generic smear of liberals, as usual. Because apparently taking care of people and pushing for justice is anathema to America I guess
wpfieps (450 D)
17 Aug 17 UTC
If you liked the comment, Ogion, you should've given it a +1. I need to bump up my Likeability Metric (viewthread=1490782 thread=1490782)
Ogion (3982 D)
17 Aug 17 UTC
Done!
orathaic (1009 D (B))
17 Aug 17 UTC
Just some more musings.

Anti-fa might justify the use of violence against fascists, by saying it is preemptive defence of those are threatened by fascist ideology.

BLM might justify the use of violence against police, by saying it is preemptive defence of those who are threatened by police.

the Black Bloc are different, they might claim that the state's monopoly on violence is inherently unjustified. That they are justified overthrowing an unjust society, and that it is implicit in their mission to oppose globalised capitalism.

I think there is a significant philosophical difference between the first two and the last one. Though it feels like BLM and the Black Bloc should have more in common, in that they both oppose the state. Black Bloc i think opposes the state in principle, and BLM only opposes specific parts of the state which engage in systemic racism against them.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
17 Aug 17 UTC
Also, Anti-fa should really have the widest possible appeal. They aren't trying to tear down any of the social structures which the left feel are problematic, or change the world. They are only opposing facists, which i believe many on the right would support, in principle.

The difference being (i presume) that those on the right who trust the police would not go out and stage or take part in a counter-protest, they would assume the police are able to do a perfectly fine job on their own...
Ogion (3982 D)
17 Aug 17 UTC
Being in favor of liberty and justice for all and looking for a fair economy is now a fringe view since half of America has more sympathy for the Klan than for the enlightenment
Ogion (3982 D)
17 Aug 17 UTC
BLM doesn't oppose the state. It opposes racist violence. Unless you see the role of the state as dealing out racist violence that isn't an anti-state position. Of course a lot of Americans think the state should be dealing out racist violence, so I guess that's a radical position these days

Frankly, cops should have made examples of the assholes who shoot unarmed people in the back, pledged reform and engaged fully I. Their supposed mission of protect and defend. As it is, they went with Omertà like any good criminal gang does and doubled down.

As a result, they lost a ton of credibility. It was a stupid approach because they did more to prove BLM's point that it is systemic than street protests ever could
Ogion (3982 D)
17 Aug 17 UTC
And yes, the black bloc aren't liked by the left anymore than the neonazis are. At least not by this one. They're just tool of oppression
Ogion (3982 D)
17 Aug 17 UTC
Also, don't forget the antifa are nearly 100 years old. (I think they founded in 1920). The ones who understand history know they failed last time.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
17 Aug 17 UTC
The cops that BLM oppose are part of the state apparatus, they enforce the property rights of the very rich, and which the Black Bloc would rather see destroyed, i suspect.

So yeah, there are similarities.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
17 Aug 17 UTC
Also this: https://twitter.com/Lamhfada/status/898090021726629892
Ogion (3982 D)
17 Aug 17 UTC
Balck Bloc != BLM. Not even close
Jeff Kuta (2066 D)
17 Aug 17 UTC
Anti-fa come and go as the political winds change. We just happen to have a proto-Fascist in the White House now.


25 replies
groza528 (518 D)
17 Aug 17 UTC
Dislodgement question
I'm normally pretty good with rules questions myself but this one has me going back and forth.
9 replies
Open
Durga (710 D)
16 Aug 17 UTC
(+7)
On punching nazis
I've decided to appease the centrists. Instead of punching nazis, we'll murder them by drone with no due process.
55 replies
Open
Jeff Kuta (2066 D)
17 Aug 17 UTC
(+2)
Is it ever ok to paunch Nazis?
Especially Nazi cats?
2 replies
Open
MyxIsMe (511 D)
17 Aug 17 UTC
Diplomacy Question
Not clear on how this works out in the game mechanics:

5 replies
Open
Monfils (0 D X)
17 Aug 17 UTC
Diplomacy memes!
Give me some because I'm waiting on my games and I'm bored and I want webdiplo in a potent form
1 reply
Open
JamesYanik (548 D)
16 Aug 17 UTC
(+4)
My Cat is a Nazi
https://puu.sh/xbB8I/c82481f2e9.png

please do not punch my cat
13 replies
Open
trip (312 D (B))
16 Aug 17 UTC
Need a sub
gameID=201565

Please let me know if you're willing and I'll send you password. Thx.
0 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (100 D)
16 Aug 17 UTC
(+3)
It's okay to punch Nazis
I purport that it is perfectly ok to beat up the following types of people:

- Nazis - Neo-Nazis - KKK members - David Duke - White Supremacists -
19 replies
Open
CommanderByron (569 D Mod (S))
12 Aug 17 UTC
(+1)
IRL work Horror Stories
No matter the field of profession, we all have work horror stories. The days when everything fell through the cracks or the work load was just too much. Tell about it. Only rule is try to avoid names and such.
11 replies
Open
CommanderByron (569 D Mod (S))
16 Aug 17 UTC
Feature Idea: Badges
See Inside
6 replies
Open
Tom Bombadil (3129 D (G))
16 Aug 17 UTC
Gen Con
Anyone going to Gen Con this weekend? I'm going for the first time just for the day Saturday - anyone with tips on what to see let me know.
0 replies
Open
michael_b (192 D)
12 Aug 17 UTC
Feature Idea: Friend 'List'
I'm not one to cause pressure for the coding team who are focused on the new Forum, but has this feature been suggested before? See Reply.
16 replies
Open
Mapu (372 D)
15 Aug 17 UTC
Five Year Anniversary Game
Happy Webdip Anniversary to me. Anyone good want to play a game? Classic Semi-Anon WTA.
4 replies
Open
kestasjk (133 D Mod (P))
04 Aug 17 UTC
(+10)
Trialing the upcoming new forum system
The new forum system is up and running, and we're ready to let users onto it to test it as we transition to it from this forum.

Probably best if you respond there rather than here, but I guess it doesn't matter:
67 replies
Open
Maltir (100 D)
14 Aug 17 UTC
Can I do this?
Here's my map: http://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID=204508&turn=-1&mapType=large
Question is, Can I move my fleet at Ankara to the Aegean Sea or the Eastern Med Sea without using the Black Sea?
11 replies
Open
Fluminator (511 D)
12 Aug 17 UTC
First person to shitpost loses
GO
15 replies
Open
Monfils (0 D X)
14 Aug 17 UTC
Any help with this Gunboat that I would really like to pick up traction.
I will follow you around the forum and support your comments for a week
1 reply
Open
orathaic (1009 D (B))
13 Aug 17 UTC
(+3)
Nazi march in America?
Someone with the Twitter handle @JuliusGoat just dropped one of the best Twitter threads in history, about the white supremacist/Nazi march in Charlottesville.

https://twitter.com/juliusgoat/status/896326301832925184
12 replies
Open
ttf236 (0 D X)
14 Aug 17 UTC
Replies Last postsort ascending Forum
http://www.thefreelancemarketer.com/
http://www.theheatingplace.com/
http://www.themoccaroom.com/
3 replies
Open
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