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cspieker (8731 D)
Wed 12 Jul UTC
What to do as Italy in gunboat?
option A: plow into Austria
option B: ally with Austria and go after Turkey.
option C: attack France.
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Yoyoyozo (5159 D Mod)
Sat 15 Jul UTC
I have a pretty good rep sheet as Austria from the past year. My philosophy is to wholehearted trust Italy unless it really looks like they're gonna stab you. If they stab you, play defensive on the east, and offensive on the west and don't stop until they're no longer a threat.

If it looks like they are setting up for stab, play defensive on the west and offensive in the east and look for cues from Turkey wanting to ally with you.

If Italy is all good, just throw all your units west.
Yoyoyozo (5159 D Mod)
Sat 15 Jul UTC
Just throw all your units east* lol
Bladerunners (934 D)
Sun 16 Jul UTC
(+1)
the best strategy is to play real diplomacy - and negotiate / talk / berate / plead / ..... and ask the site to get rid of gunboat as a horrific variant ;-)
Gunboat is not a variant, its a different method of the game. If you are only good in FP and suck in GB, thats a bit weak. :)))
MajorMitchell (984 D)
Sun 16 Jul UTC
Imho, gunboat is not a variant, it's an unnatural mutation. Diplomacy is called Diplomacy for good reasons, and negotiating & communicating are essential parts of the game.
Nikola Maric Eto (13059 D)
Sun 16 Jul UTC
(+1)
Ninja turtles are also unnatural mutations.
And, if you know what you are doing, there is a plenty of communication in gunboat.
Bladerunners (934 D)
Tue 18 Jul UTC
Ninja turtles and gunboat have a lot in commin :-).
Claesar (34 D)
Thu 20 Jul UTC
Xorxes displayed Swordsman's strategy on me here:
gameID=200527

Even though the stab was obvious, it still worked.
michael_b (656 D)
Fri 21 Jul UTC
Chose Option A. Wanted to ally with germany but ended up being ganged up on by Tukey and Italy (game still in progress) gameID=199417
michael_b (656 D)
Fri 21 Jul UTC
Turkey and Germany*
Claesar (34 D)
Fri 21 Jul UTC
Please do not post about ongoing anonymous games.
A_Tin_Can (1660 D)
Fri 21 Jul UTC
^ that's not a forum rule. You can only not post about limited press games.
Claesar (34 D)
Fri 21 Jul UTC
Right. It's also Gunboat, so I retain my position.

I also find the lack of that rule strange. He just indicated he's Italy in an anonymous game. Isn't the point of an anonymous game that no one knows who you are?
michael_b (656 D)
Sat 22 Jul UTC
True, Cleasar has a point. My bad
Kubrick (1030 D)
Sun 23 Jul UTC
I think the owners of diplomacy should permit Italy to choose whether Venice is a fleet or an army before the first move. It would compensate modestly for Italy's relatively weak position.
peterwiggin (14544 D Mod (S))
Mon 24 Jul UTC
Do not post about ongoing gunboat games on the forum.

- webDiplomacy Admin

Personal comment: Given the choice, Italy should always choose the army in Venice over the fleet to start. Having the army there gives him the choice of attacking France, Austria, or Germany in 1901. Sticking a fleet there takes away all of those options.
A_Tin_Can (1660 D)
Mon 24 Jul UTC
Kubrick: Italy does not have a weak position. Note that the winning country at the World Diplomacy Championship has been Italy for the last two years.

I personally believe that the reason Italy does less well in games with new players is that there are very few good articles about how to play Italy well.
michael_b (656 D)
Mon 24 Jul UTC
So...

- - - - -

Option A:
Plow into Austria screwing both of you and allowing France or, more commonly, Turkey to clean up the mess.

Opening A: (The "Threat" Approach): Venice->Tyrolia | Rome->Venice | Naples-IonionSea
Opening B: (The "All In" Approach): Venice->Trieste | Rome->Venice | Naples-IonionSea

Best Case: All of Austria becomes yours and you are able to threaten Munich and the Balkans whilst maintaining naval dominance in the Mediterranean as the result of careful balancing of Armies and Fleets.

Worst Case: Your attack on Austria fails and you are stuck with 4 centers for the next few years until Greece+Romania become Turkish territories and the Turk builds a fleet in Smyrna. You realize that once Turkey starts trying to force the Ionian Sea, France has decided to also indulge in the tasty failure hanging off southern Europe. You'd be lucky if Turkey lets you survive in Tunis but even that's unlikely.

- - - - -

Option B:
Ally with Austria and go after Turkey. Forcing yourself to be situated in an awkward and hardly defendable crescent-like shape around the balkans until Austria has enough of you and ultimately steamrolls you.

Opening A: (The "Lepanto" Approach): Venice H | Rome->Apulia | Naples-IonionSea
Opening B: (The "Trieste Bounce"): Venice->Trieste | Rome->Apulia | Naples-IonionSea

Best Case: You take Smyrna, Ankara is you're lucky, and even Greece if Austria is generous. You take Marseilles and then Iberia before Plowing into an unsuspecting Austria.

Worst Case: Austria takes most of Turkey and ALL of the balkans and focuses on Russia. After Russia, he moves to Tyrolia and and attacks you+Germany at the same time and you die. France is there to clean up and take Tunis+Naples too.

- - - - -

Option C:
Attack France...

Opening A: (Friendless Approach): Venice->Piedmont | Rome->Venice | Naples->Ionian
Opening B: (ProAustria Approach): Venice->Piedmont | Rome->Venice | Naples-TyrrSea

Best Case: You take Iberia and march to Paris. You then control the Atlantic and can now threaten English home centers. Austria is making good work of Turkey and your threats are now Austria, Germany and Russia

Worst Case: Your attack on France fails and you now have a shit ton of enemy fleets in the Mediterranean. Turkey's fleets that you ignore wreck Austria and Russia. England or Germany sweeps France and will probably solo.


- - - - -

Option D:
Attack Germany?

Opening A: (Sneak Approach): Venice->Tyrolia | Rome H | Naples->Ionian
Opening B: (Safer Approach): Venice->Tyrolia | Rome->Tuscany | Naples->Ionian

Best Case: You ally with Austria and make a deal with France where he forces Burgundy and then supports you into Munich. France only builds fleets in the north and you control the Mediterranean while staying out of France's way. You then stab France with English help and head for Turkey/Austria (whoever is still alive).

Worst Case: Your attack on Munich was not supported by France and you bounce. France gets 3 builds for not supporting you and taking Belgium and builds F Marseilles. Austria also stabs you and takes Venice. You have 3 troops and die before anything really happens.
A_Tin_Can (1660 D)
Mon 24 Jul UTC
Option E: Make a standard opening and see what everyone else does. For example:

* Should you attack Austria in gunboat? Probably not if it looks like R/T are going to work together
* Should you go after france? Probably not if it looks like Turkey is going to get strong while you do
* Should you work with turkey? Probably not in 1901- it doesn't change your moves until 1903-ish.
etc etc

Italy's big advantages are that no one is going to attack you until 1903, and that you control the speed of the game. So, to play Italy well, you need to know what the others are going to do, to determine which side of the board you want to speed up or slow down. And to play Italy well in gunboat, you. We'd to know what the current gunboat fashions are.
A_Tin_Can (1660 D)
Mon 24 Jul UTC
*you'll need to know
michael_b (656 D)
Mon 24 Jul UTC
Everyone: CORRECTION:

I forgot this was about Gunboat :(
swordsman3003 (6954 D (G))
Mon 24 Jul UTC
I still insist there is a "sneak attack Austria" plan.
jengamaster (96 D)
Mon 24 Jul UTC
Spring ven-> tri, rom->ven, nap->water
Fall tri-hold, ven->tyr, water->tunis

All in.


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