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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
Page 367 of 379
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peterwiggin (14549 D Mod (S))
22 Apr 17 UTC
(+6)
Mod team announcement
Please welcome Socrates dissatisfied to the mod team.
22 replies
Open
brainbomb (258 D)
23 Apr 17 UTC
(+2)
3 months into a relationship
Things are getting pretty serious. We have barbeques together, we watch game of thrones and she even joined my dungeouns and dragons group. I think this ones a keeper. Her kids are alright too.
18 replies
Open
dargorygel (341 D (G))
23 Apr 17 UTC
(+5)
I think I left my Reactor Oven on overnight, and Now want to be a Better Baker.
What should I do?
8 replies
Open
fourofswords (259 D)
23 Apr 17 UTC
Erector sets
How many Webdippers remember Erector sets? Or for that matter, Lincoln Logs and Tinker Toys? Of course, I expect the usual 90% comedy answers, the real reason I ask.
8 replies
Open
brainbomb (258 D)
22 Apr 17 UTC
(+2)
Reactors
Are there any other people who work on reactors here? I do both American Civil War and WWII Reactor repairs and would like to know if there are any others out there like me.
15 replies
Open
Fletch! (335 D (S))
22 Apr 17 UTC
Two players from one IP?
Is it allowed to have two players playing from the same household - in different games? I know they cannot join games together, and that is fine with me, but can two players from the same household play different games?

Thanks! Don't want to be banned accidentally.
8 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (106 D (B))
21 Apr 17 UTC
(+9)
Turned my oven off safely after using it.
I just thought it was important to let you all know.
10 replies
Open
Valis2501 (3512 D (G))
19 Apr 17 UTC
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Ossoff TAKE MY ENERGY ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
https://redd.it/664s7n
19 replies
Open
mitomon (185 D)
22 Apr 17 UTC
Just thought I'd leave this here for someone
http://polandball.cc/comic/international-trade-in-the-16th-century/
0 replies
Open
brainbomb (258 D)
21 Apr 17 UTC
Left my oven on all night
Set at 415 after cooking a pizza. I forgot to shut it off. It was on nearly 20 hours. I feel lucky I didnt burn my house down.
32 replies
Open
d-rock (650 D)
19 Apr 17 UTC
Colonial Diplomacy
What's the reason for Colonial being deactivated on this server?
11 replies
Open
Fluminator (319 D)
18 Apr 17 UTC
(+1)
NHL sucks
I honestly challenge anyone who obviously knows nothing about hockey to keep high morale when the refs are literally maliciously trying to throw the game. I've never seen worse reffing in a series, and anyone who doesn't realize these are humans that actually get effected when the ref delibrately tries to blow a series against your team, should realize that it makes your team feel like they are skating though glue.
12 replies
Open
Hauta (1587 D (S))
18 Apr 17 UTC
Should we just get rid of corporate taxation altogether?
Check it out:
http://www.cbpp.org/research/policy-basics-where-do-federal-tax-revenues-come-from

Corporate taxes are already low.
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JamesYanik (329 D)
19 Apr 17 UTC
@goldfinger

you did not just do an entire economic profit of a country based off of tax rates ALONE. holy shit you did.

1. Ireland was in turbulent times, and politically there were a lot of factors making them less than desirable to invest in, especially with controversies coming out in 1969 with the resurgence of the IRA.

2. The USA had much more industrial infrastructure that allowed for rapid growth as we began to consume more and more oil, gas, energy all around. Ireland did not, as they were neutral in World War 2 and did not move towards manufacturing as quickly as other countries.
JamesYanik (329 D)
19 Apr 17 UTC
change "profit" to "growth"

i don't know why i said that
Jeff Kuta (2060 D)
19 Apr 17 UTC
"Corporations are people."

If we got rid of the corporate tax rate, receipts would plummet to zero.
JamesYanik (329 D)
19 Apr 17 UTC
corporations are people who own stuff or act together.
Okay, Yanik, then ignore that part if you don't like it. The larger point is that lowering corporate tax rates doesn't increase corporate tax revenue, even in tax haven countries. The countries that do it, do it for a marginal number of jobs rather than the income. The amount that corporations pay in the US (both in real figures and percentage change in real figures) is increasing at a lower rate than the amount individuals pay, despite individual wage growth being slower than corporate profit growth. The S&P has increased around 2,600% over that timeframe, roughly the same as the US tax revenue has increased.
JamesYanik (329 D)
19 Apr 17 UTC
@goldfinger

i'm not some crazy supply sider, there's not that much elasticity for lower taxes that we could truly increase revenue by new companies being attracted.

however

1. i want to simplify our tax code. the more intricate it gets, the more loopholes there are, and the more people who can hire buildings full of lawyers get away with things.

2. i could care less about gaining new sources of governmental income, the true problem with our budget comes from excess, waste, and fiscal irresponsibility
I agree on 1. 2 doesn't matter too much right now, because to balance the budget we need both revenue increases and spending cuts. But yes, our President and Congress are both fiscally irresponsible.
JamesYanik (329 D)
19 Apr 17 UTC
i agree with that too
JamesYanik (329 D)
19 Apr 17 UTC
jesus christ guys.

we elected Donald Trump. what happened again?
Jeff Kuta (2060 D)
19 Apr 17 UTC
For corporations, "together" is optional. Many individuals effectively turn themselves into legal corporations to get special treatment wrt taxes (more loopholes, etc).
fourofswords (259 D)
19 Apr 17 UTC
(+1)
Of course we shouldn't get rid of corporate taxes. Trickle down is a myth because of the law of diminishing returns.
JamesYanik (329 D)
19 Apr 17 UTC
it's not a "myth" rather the effects of giving money to the rich are exaggerated.
Condescension (288 D)
19 Apr 17 UTC
@fourofswords You can get rid of corporate tax but still tax the rich. See Denmark.

Removing corporate tax can be revenue-neutral if you make up for it with income tax increases.

Corporate tax is one of the dumbest ideas ever, it's a direct attack on the ability of corporations to exceed their margins. Income tax only taxes profit so you don't impact the ability for companies to function.
Hauta (1587 D (S))
19 Apr 17 UTC
As long as corporations are people, why not give them the vote too? After all, they already do this in parts of London and it seems to work pretty well. The idea being, that corporations have just as much interest in good government as people. Think about that!
Jeff Kuta (2060 D)
19 Apr 17 UTC
Corporations are legal constructs. Theoretically, people, including non-citizens, could create an unlimited number of them (or a strategic number of them) to influence policy. Bad idea.
Jeff Kuta (2060 D)
19 Apr 17 UTC
Influence policy "by voting".
Hauta (1587 D (S))
19 Apr 17 UTC
@Jeff, it wouldn't be one-corp, one-vote. It'd be something more along the lines of for every $x of profit (or revenue) you get a vote. That will remove any incentive to divide up the corporation just to get more votes.
Condescension (288 D)
19 Apr 17 UTC
That's some dumb shit.
fourofswords (259 D)
19 Apr 17 UTC
@JamesYanik: Yes, you are correct, exaggerated.
Gen. Lee (7664 D (B))
20 Apr 17 UTC
LLCs are the most common business form now. Hey didn't come around until 1977 and were not available in all states until the 90s. This is pass-through taxation, it is popular because you avoid the double taxation of corporations. You are comparing apples and oranges when you compare corporate tax in 1965 to 2015.
Puddle (481 D)
20 Apr 17 UTC
I would like to see the tax code simplified, but retain the progressive income tax. I would also like to see the Corporate Tax abolished. To offset this revenue-wise I'd want to see Capital Gains income treated, and taxed, exactly the same as earned income.

Remove all loopholes, deductions and rebates, but ignore for taxing purposes any income below some minimum amount pegged to inflation and local cost of living.

A simpler tax code has a number of benefits, among them being reduced overhead administrative and enforcement costs. Of greatest import though would be increased clarity and understanding the average citizen would have of who is paying how much in taxes.
Manwe Sulimo (630 D)
21 Apr 17 UTC
"Yes, Apple pays next to nothing on a large portion of its revenues. Look at all the foreign revenues that are funneled through Ireland at next to no cost (which is what that article was about)."

International tax law is tricky. The country the company is located in says that it has paid everything it owes though. This has nothing to do with the topic at hand though, the tax rate in the U.S..

"And the numbers I found for Apple's total tax were a tad lower, 22%-24% or so."

Well, I calculated the numbers myself using information found on Apple's income statements. I trust my own numbers.

"In fact, average effective US corporate tax rate is around 21.9%, which is just above that of France and Germany, and not far off the global average of 17.4%"

Debatable.

"Comparing 1965 to 2015"

Why are we comparing from 1960 to 2015 now...? I talked about 1960-2015. You can't say my data was wrong because you change the years we're taking data from. That's not how that works.

"total tax revenues went from $167,022 million to $4,754,120 million - an increase of 2,746%. Corporate taxes went from $27,390 million to $395,888 million - an increase of 1,345%. During that time period the statutory tax rate decreased from 46% (or more....could only go back as far as 1981) down to 35%. The corporate tax as a share of total revenues decreased from 16% to 8%."

I'll trust your data, but the reason for the discrepancy between yours and mine (aside from the different years) was that I was talking about Federal taxes only while you included State and Local taxes.

"So where was this increase in tax revenue mainly placed? On workers"

Yep. Through an increased Payroll tax.

"Average hourly wage in the US for regular workers increased from $2.50 an hour to $21 an hour over the same timeframe - an increase of 740% (Source: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/AHETPI)."

That data says it is for production and non-supervisory employees. That's oddly specific. Why do we care about hat group of workers wages in particular and not about anyone else's?

"But their share of total gross domestic income has been decreasing, from 49% to 43% (Source: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/W270RE1A156NBEA)"

That data is for all employees it looks like. That is a different group than in the hourly wage source.

"What's driving this? Higher income tax burdens."

Yes, more Payroll taxes!

"You are correct that social security has increased - 4,973% from $22,192 million to $1,125,923 million, in fact! But the burden for this increase is larger on the employee (5,807% increase) than on the employer (4,317% increase)."

The cause of corporate tax as a percentage of total revenues declining!

"Capital gains has seen the largest increase over this timeframe, 6,901%, but is still laughably small at $174,550 million."

I wouldn't call $175 billion annually "laughably small". But capital gains is different from corporate income tax anyway.

"Now lets compare to Ireland, home of the lowest tax rate in Europe. Let's see where it got them."

I think there may be at least 1 or 2 more things than just the corporate income tax rate that go into determining economic growth over a span of decades. But, that's just a hunch I have.

"1965 - Irish tax base of a whopping $317 million. Corporate tax of $29 million, 9% of total. After they invented themselves into a tax haven, tax base of $60,356 million (growth of 778%), corporate tax revenue of $6,873 million (growth of 993%), 11% of total revenues."

Umm, 317 million to 60,356 million is growth of 18,939.75% and 29 million to 6,873 million is growth of 23,600%.

"To me, that's not impressive."

To me, it is.

"The growth rates are much, much lower than that of the United States."

Using the numbers you provided, they're much much higher.

"The percentage of total revenues isn't much different from the United States"

For the third time, percentage of total revenue means zilch.

'Ireland needs these rates because without them, they don't have jobs, and jobs is what they care about. US has no such need, really, because this fear of inversions is completely overblown."

Without them, they have less jobs. The threat of inversions is real. That's why the FTC is constantly changing the rules to prevent them.

"The total number of corporate inversion in the past 35 years is??? 50."

Well, to be exact, it is 86 companies that have somehow shifted their place of incorporation for tax reasons since 1982, with 61 of those being classified as straight up inversions. How many of those companies were worth many billions of dollars though? Companies such as Medtronic ($110.91B) and Actavis ($79.76B)? You ass up the value of those 86 companies and that is a huge amount of value the U.S. economy lost due to unfavorable tax policies.

"Tim Hortons is owned by Burger King, and was originally a US company"

They actually merged and are both owned by a parent company which is Canadian, so Burger king isn't really a U.S. company any more. Both it and Tim Horton's are 100% Canadian.

"So, in sum, corporations are not paying enough"

Based on??? The sole fact that corporate tax revenue makes up a smaller share of total federal tax revenues today than in 1960 (or 1965)? How many times do I have to say that that figure could not be more irrelevant. But, even if it were, why would the rate arbitrarily set in the 60s be the correct one? How do we know that one wasn't too high and the one we have today is better? There's no basis for saying that because the tax rate used to be higher, it must be too low today.

"Their profits are growing faster than wages are growing"

1. No data has been provided to conclude this. 2. If it were true, why is it automatically an issue that needs to be corrected? 3. Profits and wages are determined from very different inputs. Profits have to deal with such things as the coast of your inputs, the demand from your customers, and the supply from your competitors. Wages are determined based on the productivity of the workforce and the supply and demand for labor. They can very well move in the same direction, opposite directions, or have one move up or down while the other remains constant. All of this is natural because they are not dependent on one another.

"they're pushing the tax burden for the country off themselves and onto workers in various ways"

Why should they bear any part of the tax burden, let alone the specific amount they have had in the past? The people who own the corporations already pay taxes on the profits they receive from them? Why is the double taxation at the corporate level even a thing?

"Either jack up the corporate rate or jack up the capital gains rate, but something has to be done."

Lower both, cut spending.
Manwe Sulimo (630 D)
21 Apr 17 UTC
(+1)
"it's not a "myth" rather the effects of giving money to the rich are exaggerated."

This. It works, just not to the extent claimed.
Manwe Sulimo (630 D)
21 Apr 17 UTC
"Corporate tax is one of the dumbest ideas ever, it's a direct attack on the ability of corporations to exceed their margins. Income tax only taxes profit so you don't impact the ability for companies to function."

It also encourages taking on reckless amounts of debt because any interest a corporation pays on its debt it can write off on its taxes.
Manwe Sulimo (630 D)
21 Apr 17 UTC
"LLCs are the most common business form now. Hey didn't come around until 1977 and were not available in all states until the 90s. This is pass-through taxation, it is popular because you avoid the double taxation of corporations. You are comparing apples and oranges when you compare corporate tax in 1965 to 2015."

That is also a very good point.


55 replies
Puddle (481 D)
17 Apr 17 UTC
Sending Screenshots
Is there any rule concerning sending one player a screenshot of your conversation with another?
37 replies
Open
curupira (2744 D)
20 Apr 17 UTC
Gunboat invitation
Hi, folks.
Anybody up for one more gunboat game?
Classic, 1 day, 30 pts., draw size ...
6 replies
Open
brainbomb (258 D)
16 Apr 17 UTC
(+3)
How can I become a crappier person
I have recently been told that I am funny, kinda weird, a stalker, spammy, and an artistic twat. Do you fellows at WebDiplomacy observe these traits about me? How can I become the worst me possible? What tips and advice can you offer? How can I become a shit human? This is a serious thread and I want to become even worse than I am.
19 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (106 D (B))
18 Apr 17 UTC
Win Or Bust
Draws are for sissies. Who would like to join me in a game where, by agreement of all participants, no "Draw" votes shall be permitted?

I think it'll be fun.
29 replies
Open
brainbomb (258 D)
19 Apr 17 UTC
You discover a map to buried treasure
There is a catch. While visiting neighors you find the map in the hands of their infant son. The treasure is likely real as youd heard of the map and its fabled promise. The problem is not just that a child is holding the map- its that the family desperately would need the treasure to pay off their debts or they may end up on the streets starving. However you also know the babys mother and father gamble, drink and are rather unsavory. What do you do?
27 replies
Open
WyattS14 (20 D)
19 Apr 17 UTC
Is water wet, or does it just make things wet?
Discuss?
39 replies
Open
Hauta (1587 D (S))
19 Apr 17 UTC
New robot!
There's a new robot called the omnibus that does all the work that needs to be done -- faster, cheaper, and more accurately than any human can do. Wrinkle: only one person owns it. Is this a problem or a blessing?
11 replies
Open
ND (608 D)
26 Mar 17 UTC
(+5)
Mafia 28: -JEBEDIAH'S WRATH-
See below
2900 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D (B))
19 Apr 17 UTC
Tea partier conservative on renewable energy...
And how to reach republicans: https://youtu.be/nbmt_WeNBck

Thoughts?
2 replies
Open
superkeiko (239 D)
18 Apr 17 UTC
(+2)
Three Build England, possiblility and effect on game play.
As far as I know, there is only 1 set of moves that gives England 3 1901 builds, what if in a real game, England, Germany, Russia, and France must complete those moves, what will be the diplomatic effect in game?
22 replies
Open
DemonOverlord (452 D)
18 Apr 17 UTC
(+5)
For your amusement
So guys, as some of you know I can be a bit of a troll on the forums. This also tends to mean I'm a bit of a troll on other internet platforms that aren't webdip. One of them being tinder. This time I thought it would be hilarious to make this my bio and see what happens: http://imgur.com/tW86lIi

Stay tuned for lots of fun (because I some hilarious convos to share) **all identities will be protected**
112 replies
Open
Roadhog (243 D (G))
18 Apr 17 UTC
We're almost there! Just two more...
Come and play a Modern Diplo game:

http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=196222
2 replies
Open
brainbomb (258 D)
09 Apr 17 UTC
What makes someone terrible at playing diplomacy
I was wondering if personality traits can make it harder for someone to ever get good at this game. I consider myself pretty average if not mediocre at diplomacy for a number of reasons.
44 replies
Open
husse (100 D)
18 Apr 17 UTC
quick game
yooo who is down for a quick live game
2 replies
Open
Hauta (1587 D (S))
17 Apr 17 UTC
Freaky Friday
If you could trade lives with someone on this site for a day, who would it be and why? (Jeez, I hope no one has asked this before!)
12 replies
Open
bdublicious (35 D)
18 Apr 17 UTC
Single route convoy chain order choices -- resolution & disruption
Hi All: questions about the order resolution & disruption in convoy chains:
3 replies
Open
DemonOverlord (452 D)
18 Apr 17 UTC
(+1)
Safe space thread
This thread is for JamesYanik, Capt Brad, and TrPrado to say whatever they want about whoever they want and let out all their angsty feelings so they stop spamming the rest of the forum.
6 replies
Open
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