Forum
A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
Page 359 of 412
FirstPreviousNextLast
yavuzovic (645 D)
11 Mar 17 UTC
In Holland.
What's happening? Can someone explain it?
56 replies
Open
Limni (505 D)
15 Mar 17 UTC
(+1)
Abusive PMs
Is it possible to block someone from sending you messages? There's a user who is sending abusive PMs to a few players who played a game with him a few weeks ago.

Not that I'm exactly getting upset about being called a colossal berk, but it's annoying when you think it might be a legitimate message each time
14 replies
Open
Hauta (1618 D (S))
16 Mar 17 UTC
Tom Cotton (AR) to replace Paul Ryan?
Looks like Bannon is setting up Tom Cotton to replace Paul Ryan as speaker of the house. At least getting rid of Ryan is one part of #MAGA that I can get behind.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/cotton-ryan-obamacare-repeal-replace-236102
11 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D (B))
12 Mar 17 UTC
Sovereign rights?
I know lots of Americans talk the talk when it cones to states rights. But how do you feel about treaties signed with Indian Tribes guarenteeing their sovereignty? (What rights should they have? Where do you draw the line? - when this is happening: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_58c20238e4b0d1078ca597af )
Page 5 of 5
FirstPreviousNextLast
 
Lethologica (203 D)
14 Mar 17 UTC
Impasse, then. I can't but read what you write. If that won't do, then there's nothing else to be said.
CAPT Brad (40 D X)
14 Mar 17 UTC
muting lifeless letho
JECE (1322 D)
15 Mar 17 UTC
Hauta:
"You should be more careful about how you characterize your opponent's position because your credibility is damaged when you're wrong."

Have you read the last page? Lethologica was consistently articulate and on point in replying to your comments and Zmaj's comments.

He was also right to snap at your segue into spiritualism and European Jewish history. Lethologica literally just finished telling you about how the "government forc[ed] Native Americans onto bad property lacking either arable land or infrastructure, spawning a vicious cycle of underinvestment." Obviously he understands that tribes, once dispossessed of their land, go onto retain their culture. Do you really not understand that every time Jews were expelled from or massacred in a European country, that both the Jewish culture of a given national community and the economic wellbeing of these Jews and their descendants were massively damaged? You did indeed set the bar quite low for what you find acceptable ("If they fail, then so be it").
Hauta (1618 D (S))
15 Mar 17 UTC
JECE, Leth seemed to be making the point that if the Indians lose at Standing Rock or lose land in general (I forget which), that their culture will be destroyed. I was just disagreeing and pointing to an example. I have made abundantly clear that ancient transgressions are in the past but that recent transgressions should be litigated in the courts where civilized people resolve disputes. I don't know why this is so controversial.
Lethologica (203 D)
15 Mar 17 UTC
I'm certainly willing to concede to any mistake in writing that led you to that impression of what I was talking about, but JECE's characterization is correct.
Hauta (1618 D (S))
15 Mar 17 UTC
(+1)
I'm not surprised that you'd find comfort in JECE's assessment. I suggest that you and JECE take your positive energy to one of the many areas where we agree so that we can push back on ignorant types.
Lethologica (203 D)
15 Mar 17 UTC
(+1)
I'd take more comfort in you not somehow reaching the conclusion that I'm massively concerned about some absolute connection between land and culture. Both have been subject to massive depredation in ways that inform the present and understanding historical causes for present situations to inform future actions has been the thrust of my argument all along. If you point me to the passage that led you to believe otherwise, I'll rewrite it.

(I *do* think you're entirely too ready to make hasty generalizations from a culture particularly founded upon the diaspora, but man, that has *nothing* to do with what I care about.)
Hauta (1618 D (S))
15 Mar 17 UTC
Leth, you wrote: "maybe we should be less complacent about telling modern-day Native Americans that they should desert their failing culture, move to NYC, and join our successful culture if they want to succeed."

The inference is that Native Americans can't maintain their culture in NYC. Why not? Oh right, because they would have to MOVE to NYC. That's why I inferred that you were "massively concerned about some absolute connection between land and culture."
Lethologica (203 D)
15 Mar 17 UTC
(+1)
I wrote that because of what *you* wrote.

"...nothing stopped American Indians from leaving the reservation and moving to NYC where nearly everyone off the boat was discriminated against. There they could achieve a lifestyle and education that could be superior to what they got by staying."

"...With poverty being the metric, my response was to point out that NYC was a better bet than a reservation. Apparently, many Indians decided that poverty with their own people was better than a chance at prosperity with unfamiliar people. Their choice."

You yourself seem to realize in these comments that the choice isn't just about land, but about other things like community and lifestyle. I'm taking those things together, just as you did; what I'm not doing is taking the land part alone and trying to establish everything else from there (unless that's what you think you were doing, in which case I don't know why you're arguing against it now).
Lethologica (203 D)
15 Mar 17 UTC
I suppose a rewrite would look like: "Maybe we should be less complacent about telling modern-day Native Americans that it's their fault for staying on the reservations."
JECE (1322 D)
16 Mar 17 UTC
Hauta: You didn't really reply to my comment, but for what it's worth, you're wrong to assume that Native American tribes have a fair shot at preserving their rights in the U. S. court system. There is a reason why Native Hawaiians and Alaska Natives refuse to be classified as recognized tribes, even though recognition grants certain quasi-sovereign and land rights.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
16 Mar 17 UTC
@Hauta
"... that recent transgressions should be litigated in the courts where civilized people resolve disputes. I don't know why this is so controversial."

This doesn't seem so contraversial, but it does mean you think Indian reservations should be subject to the US court system, do they skip past state court, directly to the federal level (at least assuming we're not talking about local court resomving local issues).

Or do you go beyond the supreme court and head to some international court (which usually only works for human rights and war crimes, and the US consistantly refuses to recognise).

And why don't you use the international norms for two sovereign states disputing issues, which is diplomacy, treaty negotiations, and not often a court system.

@Lethologica: Hauta said: "The inference is that Native Americans can't maintain their culture in NYC. Why not?"

It is arguable that their culture involves living off the land, and this is not possible in NYC. There were no cities in the continental US when europeans first arrived (there were in Mexico and Peru) so most of the cultures were not like the Jewish culture. In contrast, Judaism has lived in cities since the destruction of the (correct me if i'm wrong) Second Temple about 2,000 years ago by the Roman Empire. They had an urban culture with a Priestly Caste/Class (one person doing the full-time job of spiritual leader, supported by many, which necessitates urban centres of some kind - unlike the pre-urban shamanic positions which are usually part-time and support themselves by living off the land the rest of the time).

But your point is well made, so perhaps i shouldn't be trying to help...

@JECE, can you elaborate on the Hawaiian and Alaskan differences, and why being US citizens in a US state is preferable to living in a Tribal area under Tribal (partial?) jurisdiction. I am interested but all i've found so far is oblique references to many exceptions...
orathaic (1009 D (B))
16 Mar 17 UTC
@me: "It is arguable that their culture involves living off the land, and this is not possible in NYC."

When i say this, i incorrectly speak for native peoples, i am merely making assumptions, and the correct actions is to ask those people, rather than talking to an Irish man who has never living in a Tribal area.
Zmaj (215 D (B))
16 Mar 17 UTC
Still comparing Indians and Jews... Talk about flogging a dead horse...
Hauta (1618 D (S))
16 Mar 17 UTC
@orathaic, whatever courts the Indians are using in Standing Rock seems good enough for me too. Also, there's plenty of land on the frontier now that enough people have left the farm for the big city; I don't see why Indians can't find tons of land to settle on. Not arable? Somehow the Jews (there he goes with the Jews again) managed to turn some desert into arable land in Isreal.
@JECE, the court system isn't fair. Never was. Never will be. Ex. Bush v. Gore. But it's all we got.
JECE (1322 D)
16 Mar 17 UTC
(+1)
orathaic: One of my college professors wrote about that:
“Precarious Positions: Native Hawaiians and US Federal Recognition,” J. Kehaulani Kauanui
I found a copy on-line: http://hdl.handle.net/10125/13835

I also have a draft Word doc copy of this chapter from before it was published:
“Hawaiian Nationhood, Self-determination, and International Law,” J. Kehaulani Kauanui

Hope you find that useful because it took me a while to find.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
16 Mar 17 UTC
Thanks JECE :)
JECE (1322 D)
16 Mar 17 UTC
(+1)
Hauta and orathaic: It all boils down to plenary power. Take these quotes from the draft chapter (they span several pages, but listed in order they still fit well together):

"[T]he U. S. asserts its plenary power to keep indigenous sovereigns both domestic and dependent. . . . Article I, Section 8, Clause 3 of the U. S. Constitution . . . reads: 'The Congress shall have power…to regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes.' The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled time and time again that this clause – also known as the 'Commerce Clause' – means the U. S. federal government has total and complete power over tribal nations (Wilkins 1997). . . . It should also be noted that the U. S. Congress (the legislative branch of the federal government) has repeatedly delegated its authority to the executive branch of the U. S. government. With regard to Indian tribes, it delegates its authority specifically to the U. S. Department of the Interior. . . . There is no equal footing here; all negotiations must take place within the framework of U.S. federal law and policy with regard to Indian tribes and under U. S. plenary power, where the U. S. government asserts total and complete power".

Here is the Wilkins citation:
Wilkins, David E
1997 American Indian Sovereignty and the U.S. Supreme Court: The Masking of Justice. Austin: University of Texas Press.


The implications for the Dakota Access Pipeline under the Trump administration are clear.
Hauta (1618 D (S))
16 Mar 17 UTC
Thanks JECE, so the Indians have as much power as the sovereign (U.S.) is willing to give them.
JECE (1322 D)
16 Mar 17 UTC
Hauta: Right, hence why trusting in the courts is a bad idea when dealing with tribal rights.
Hauta (1618 D (S))
16 Mar 17 UTC
A bad idea, but better than everything else.
JECE (1322 D)
16 Mar 17 UTC
Better than what? Trump controls the Department of the Interior. Interior has plenary power to do whatever the fuck it wants. If matters go to the courts, the tribes will lose by default.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
16 Mar 17 UTC
So better to trust in civil disobedience as the only lever to power they have any hope of being effective when it comes to blocking the Pipeline?
orathaic (1009 D (B))
16 Mar 17 UTC
(Also thanks again JECE, was reading the 'Precarious Positions' pdf last night until i fell asleep, really interesing stuff)
JECE (1322 D)
16 Mar 17 UTC
orathaic: I guess so, yes. The civil disobedience was effective at embarrassing the previous administration.
Hauta (1618 D (S))
16 Mar 17 UTC
Wow, Lewis v Clarke (real case) is about Indian affairs and is at the Supreme Court:
http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/lewis-v-clarke/
Case involves car accident where Native American driver was on the job for his tribe and hit non-Indians. Case seems to turn on the limits of tribal immunity.


146 replies
JamesYanik (548 D)
15 Mar 17 UTC
Rachel Maddow has Trump's Tax Returns
I'm guessing an IRS leak? still, it's 9pm E.T. when America shall know
61 replies
Open
stranger (580 D)
15 Mar 17 UTC
(+3)
The new 1v1 games are ruining the game stats
Couldn't there be a possibility to make games even more unranked - meaning that the result wouldn't even appear on your game stats?
16 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D (B))
15 Mar 17 UTC
John Snow born on this day!
Maybe more sig ifigant than the Ide of March: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v495/n7440/full/495169a.html?WT.mc_id=TWT_NatureNews
6 replies
Open
Hellfire Missile (100 D)
16 Mar 17 UTC
Fall of American Empire
Can a boat move from W coast to Los A?

Also for turns is it Spring, Aut, builds?
3 replies
Open
WyattS14 (100 D (B))
13 Mar 17 UTC
(+1)
Income inequality in the US
How could one argue that income inequality is a bad thing, without saying that the rich are too rich, or proposing a redistribution of wealth?
69 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (4911 D Mod (G))
16 Mar 17 UTC
webDip Bracket
Anyone want to fill out a bracket? Picking Duke isn't allowed.
7 replies
Open
brainbomb (325 D)
16 Mar 17 UTC
(+2)
The incredible return of Boaty McBoatface
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/03/13/519976028/boaty-mcboatface-prepares-for-first-antarctic-mission
5 replies
Open
MajorMitchell (1133 D)
11 Mar 17 UTC
(+2)
Western Australia votes, big win for "lefties" & Conservatives smashed
Massive defeat for Liberal Party and National Party, and far right Hanson Party slumps to 4.7% from 14%.
8 replies
Open
CommanderByron (863 D (S))
13 Mar 17 UTC
(+2)
Let's play a game
I have in my possession 3 small animals. I have preselected a rule for each (I.E if last post before getting locked is on first page then X dies) of course there is a way no animals have to die. Their fate is in your hands webdip.
29 replies
Open
WyattS14 (100 D (B))
15 Mar 17 UTC
(+1)
Chili and Rice
That is all
14 replies
Open
SuperMario0727 (204 D)
14 Mar 17 UTC
(+5)
Concerning Turkish Strategy: The Ottoman Empire
Concerning Turkish strategy and tactics, the historical endeavours of the Ottoman Empire during the Great War can be considered. Like the other Great Powers, Turkey has many fronts to consider—the Caucasus, Balkan, and Mediterranean fronts. Each front must be considered and analyzed before pursuing a campaign . . .
29 replies
Open
Hauta (1618 D (S))
13 Mar 17 UTC
(+2)
Trumpcare - costs will be lower for everyone
MSM keeps failing to note that Trumpcare lowers the cost of healthcare for everyone by lowering PREMIUMS while reducing BENEFITS. If nothing is covered, then Republicans can lower premiums drastically, but that doesn't really solve the problem of healthcare does it?
67 replies
Open
Deinodon (360 D (B))
15 Mar 17 UTC
Diplomacy is the official game of the Ides of March.
Et tu, Brute?
4 replies
Open
Tom Bombadil (4028 D (G))
13 Mar 17 UTC
Vacation
So I'm taking a week off at the end of summer and am going on my first solo vacation. I've gone on several vacations with my family, but I like the idea of going somewhere alone where I can do whatever I want for a week. Looking for suggestions on destinations for a week (not a resort - something more adventurous)
50 replies
Open
Hauta (1618 D (S))
14 Mar 17 UTC
(+1)
Trumpcare predictions?
I predict that Ryan's bill will fail and that Trump will continue to sabotage Obamacare by excusing penalty payments until Obamacare fails. Once Obamacare fails, there's no need to repeal it. Trump will just blame the Democrats for "failed Obamacare" and for failing to work with him on a plan to save it.
6 replies
Open
Matticus13 (2687 D)
07 Mar 17 UTC
Top 150 GR Full Press Game
48 hour phases. Can have a top 150 GR in either overall or full press rating. Who's game?

1. Matticus13
40 replies
Open
JamesYanik (548 D)
13 Mar 17 UTC
Someone kill me now
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/445719/high-school-kids-usa-themed-attire-basketball-game
36 replies
Open
The Ambassador (159 D)
08 Mar 17 UTC
Live video feed podcast?
Hi folks - Kaner and I are getting together this time next week for another boozy Dip chat.
4 replies
Open
jmo1121109 (3817 D Mod)
12 Mar 17 UTC
(+1)
WebDip Dev Announcement
The mod team let me know today that they are sick of me interfering with them (which is apparently what making a thread of support for jamiet is) and after several hours of getting yelled at on gchat I'm done and leaving the site.
45 replies
Open
Hauta (1618 D (S))
13 Mar 17 UTC
Should Trump's EPA be allowed to override state's clean air rules?
Looks like Scott Pruitt wants to gut California's clean emission standards. I'm confused, weren't the states supposed to know for themselves what was best? Why is fed government getting involved in a state's right to set its own standard?

https://www.wired.com/2017/03/want-gut-emission-rules-prepare-war-california/
6 replies
Open
Matticus13 (2687 D)
28 Feb 17 UTC
(+3)
Useless Fact Thread
Post your favorite here.
41 replies
Open
brainbomb (325 D)
12 Mar 17 UTC
(+1)
HAPPY BIRTHDAY VALIS
You old biotch! This thread plz dont lock. Happy Birthday bro
17 replies
Open
Deeply_Dippy (458 D)
13 Mar 17 UTC
(+1)
Please reconsider your re-considerations.
Considering your considerable considered service to this site, please consider re-considering your considerations considerably.
2 replies
Open
Ogion (4278 D)
11 Mar 17 UTC
What news sources do you read?
In this political era, I'm wondering what news sources you read
38 replies
Open
brainbomb (325 D)
13 Mar 17 UTC
Bi, i'm larping
Hey guys, I'm wondering if anyone knows where I can get some high quality depression meds; or a larping experience which also incorporates back rubs.
8 replies
Open
Hauta (1618 D (S))
12 Mar 17 UTC
What is the best way to reduce the amount of disinformation?
Call it fake news or whatever you want, but the dissemination of factually incorrect statements is a disservice to the electorate. We all like the first amendment and free speech, but once you have enough viewers/followers etc, should you be held to a higher standard of accuracy?
19 replies
Open
Page 359 of 412
FirstPreviousNextLast
Back to top