media scaremongering as usual- the liberal media is obediently following the guidance of Western governments to target and defame Putin because he isn't falling in line with the progressive agenda

They do but this proposed change will bring the FSB, Foreign Intelligence Service and State Guards under one administration, the State Security Ministry., which is similar to how the KGB was structured.

@leon1122 What is the progressive agenda?

The undermining of tradition, religion, and family values.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/14/world/europe/russia-orthodox-church.html?_r=0

It's another media hit piece against Putin, but here's what gives away the actual reason for the demonization of Putin:

"While tanks and artillery have been Russia’s weapons of choice to project its power into neighboring Ukraine and Georgia, Mr. Putin has also mobilized faith to expand the country’s reach and influence. A fervent foe of homosexuality and any attempt to put individual rights above those of family, community or nation, the Russian Orthodox Church helps project Russia as the natural ally of all those who pine for a more secure, illiberal world free from the tradition-crushing rush of globalization, multiculturalism and women’s and gay rights."

Individual rights are part of the capitalist agenda.

Communal rights (above those of the family or indvidual) would be part of the communist agenda. (And if you had a commune it would be communal rights above those of the nation)

...

Liberal agenda? I don't know what power bloc existed to promote them. The 'liberal' media is controled and owned by multinational corporations. Those are the interests they serve, and yes, they have reasons to oppose Putin, and 'traditional' power structures, like the state, religion and family.

@leon

well yeah everyone has got their agendas, but I'd find it hard to deny he's living scum.

evil genius scum. but still scum.

scum scum scum scum scum scum scum scum damnit i overused it





scum

Looks like you're thoroughly brainwashed. Putin is the protector of conservative social values and of Russian sovereignty. As the patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church says, his presidency is a "miracle of God".

miracle of God miracle of God miracle of God miracle of God damnit i overused it




miracle of God

Leon, was that directed at me?

Yeah I really hate it when everyone has rights. Stupid progressive agenda.

Yeah, I would love to have the right to fuck a goat too. Progressivism is awesome.

LEON FIGHT!

in some places, Goat marries you! (http://newsofthesouth.com/man-forced-to-marry-the-goat-he-raped/ )

Although, in these places, it may also be true that you are forced to marry a woman/girl child when caught raping her... so maybe this isn't up there on the 'progressives' agenda...

@leon1122

"the Russian Orthodox Church helps project Russia as the natural ally of all those who pine for a more secure, illiberal world free from the tradition-crushing rush of globalization, multiculturalism and women’s and gay rights."

How will stopping globalisation, multiculturalism and women's and gay rights make the world 'more secure'? And which traditions are you referring to that are being crushed?

Also, 'Looks like you're thoroughly brainwashed.' and then saying that 'Putin is the protector of conservative social values and of Russian sovereignty. As the patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church says, his presidency is a "miracle of God".

miracle of God miracle of God miracle of God miracle of God' makes it difficult to tell who is being brainwashed.

@leon

I've had family in Poland who lived under the Soviet Union, and seeing as Putin is former KGB, I'm not nominating him for any nobel peace prizes. The stories about the KGB from what I've heard... nobody at Putin's rank is innocent.

Also, the liberal agenda isn't destroying religion

logic is. common sense is. science is.

and I don't agree with all science, but if you want to go toe to toe with me on religion, I'll happily oblige.

And to be clear, I have no problem with the right to practice religion you do you, I do me

But justifying Putin by calling him a Miracle of God, I won't allow to go unchallenged

Who gives a fuck? "The KGB...." EWWW!!!! Scary!!!!!!

Yeah, and the US has the CIA (and god only know what other dastardly organizations), Britain has MI-6, Israel has....France has....Germany has....

Every fucking country in the world has a spy organization.

But you sheep are oging to get your undies in a bunch because Russia has one, too....as if they othrewise wouldn't have one if it's not called the "KGB"?

Idiotic

^

Edward Snowden will make sure the KGB doesn't spy on Russian citizens.

"Looks like you're thoroughly brainwashed."
Lol says the guy sucking Putin's dick. I can throw shit on every world leader in history. Going off the Putin example:
Widely pushes out Russian passports into foreign territory and uses subversion tactics to convince small territories they want to be part of Russia so he can claim national determinism when he inevitably moves in to try and take over.
Perhaps a little too domineering of the political scene. United Russia essentially belongs to Putin, and through it he owns the country and can do just about anything, like rewrite part of the constitution that hinders his career.
His use of religion to control the country is a lot more cynical than you want it to be. Whether or not Putin is actually religious, he's using faith in a similar fashion to how the tsars used it. From a news source I believe you trust (since you've cited it before):
http://www.breitbart.com/faith/2016/07/10/putin-signs-measure-revoking-religious-freedom/
"Russian President Vladimir Putin signed legislation this week that severely restricts freedom of religion by prohibiting any religious speech or evangelization outside of places of worship."
(That was this July)
Notice none of the above points criticize his employment of conservative social values, so I'm really dodging a propaganda bullet there.

Take anything any world leader says with a grain of salt. I (and I know for certain also not Yanik) am not saying he is only and entirely bad. He's done wonders for the Russian economy, and the post-Yeltsin years most definitely needed him for that. Just don't go around saying people, especially world leaders, are perfect or miracles of God, k? :) (Note: I'm more religious than Yanik is, so a rebuttal along those lines is not going to be accepted here.)

-Sincerely,
Someone who has studied Russian politics

^
kill
^
em

"Widely pushes out Russian passports into foreign territory"

If someone wants to become a Russian citizen, what is the matter with that?

"uses subversion tactics to convince small territories they want to be part of Russia so he can claim national determinism when he inevitably moves in to try and take over"

Subversion of what? Of unconstitutional governments? Tell me, if the South overthrows the government in Washington D.C. today and establishes a new federal government through a coup, would you be so opposed to Vermont seceding and joining Canada? That is essentially what happened in Ukraine.

"Perhaps a little too domineering of the political scene. United Russia essentially belongs to Putin, and through it he owns the country and can do just about anything, like rewrite part of the constitution that hinders his career"

If Putin has 82% approval, his party is obviously going to gravitate towards him. Since his party has a supermajority (elected to the Duma by the Russian people), United Russia is free to amend the constitution just like a supermajority in Congress would be able to.

"From a news source I believe you trust (since you've cited it before):
http://www.breitbart.com/faith/2016/07/10/putin-signs-measure-revoking-religious-freedom/
"Russian President Vladimir Putin signed legislation this week that severely restricts freedom of religion by prohibiting any religious speech or evangelization outside of places of worship."
(That was this July)"

No, I do not automatically trust what Breitbart says. For this particular case, all the major news outlets had the same narrative, that the Yarovaya Law prohibits religious activity outside of church. This narrative highlights the media misinformation better than anything I could have provided myself. The narrative on this law is utterly and flagrantly false, and I suspect they all got their "information" from one source without actually reading the law. Nowhere does the law say that individuals can't congregate with fellow believers to discuss their faith. It actually prevents missionaries from converting people outside the church. For more information, see https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Putin-sign-the-new-anti-terror-law-that-makes-it-illegal-for-Russians-to-discuss-their-religious-beliefs-outside-of-a-church, and to read a translation of the actual law, see http://www.sga.org/download/English-translation-of-Russian-anti-evangelism-law.-web-version.pdf. The media is just trying to discredit Putin as a conservative leader by misleading the readers.

"Notice none of the above points criticize his employment of conservative social values, so I'm really dodging a propaganda bullet there."

Of course the media tries to paint Putin as corrupt and tyrannical rather than just conservative because conservatism is just a political leaning.

"Just don't go around saying people, especially world leaders, are perfect or miracles of God, k?"

I'm not saying he's perfect, but he's certainly much more benevolent than many Western democratic leaders, and he's constantly demonized by every news mainstream source unlike, say, Obama.

"Every fucking country in the world has a spy organization" - again, nope, Ireland has no secret service. And before anyone asks, no i don't know what that secret seevice budget is spent on...

@"Perhaps a little too domineering of the political scene. United Russia essentially belongs to Putin, and through it he owns the country and can do just about anything..."

Unfortunately there is no one to replace him. No opposition to speak of (they exist but they don't affect the United Russia party) no successor in waiting, Putin's death will leave Russia in crisis.

And low oil prices, crazy demographics - ie lots of older people, and EU economic sanctions are not making Russia any less crisisy - also not being able to pay off the local politicians in break-away provinces like Checnya... (Cause of the low oil prices...) The only reason Russia is politically stable is Putin, and he's holding it together by showing off his strenght, success in Syria, and Crimea (And previously Georgia) - Putin is playing off nationalism and pride. But once he is gone, who knows...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directorate_of_Military_Intelligence_(Ireland)

"The Directorate of Military Intelligence ("G2") (Irish: Stiúrthóireacht na Faisnéise) is the military intelligence branch of the Defence Forces, the Irish armed forces, and THE NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE SERVICE OF IRELAND"

ie not a secret service.

Sure, not in name, but they cover the operations that a secret service would do.

The joke is, we have a secret service budget, but no secret service.

Either we're so good that the secret service is actually secret... Or we're so corrupt...

All countries have intelligence services, military or civilian, but not all countries have secret intelligence services, ie CIA, ASIS, MI-6, SVR type 'spies'. Usually this falls under the category of foreign intelligence collection and most states simply dont have the budget to support this nor have they the need for such a service. In this case, Ireland very much has an intelligence agency only it collects it intel through standard routes rather than through covert methods.

Firstly, Ireland is quite open about it's covert intelligence gathering. Secondly, what exactly is a standard route?

Ireland has two, there is the garda special detective unit - which does counter terrorism and counter espionage work - and is part of the national police. And the aforementioned G2, which is part of the military and does milintel along with counter-terrorism and security work (like making sure the IRA splinter groups don't manage to blow anyone up)

It is like if the NSA, and CIA were under the armed forces, and the FBI was part of the national police service - or mroe to the point, like the NSA and CIA didn't exist, but military intelligence was still done by the Office of Naval Intelligence, Marine Corps Intelligence Activity, Coast Guard Intelligence, Intelligence and Security Command (Army) and Twenty-Fifth Air Force... With the FBI, DEA, and ATF all being part of the one national police force.

Basically collecting any information that is readily available. It also depends on what type of intel you are gathering, so geospatial, signal, technical, open-source etc.

"If someone wants to become a Russian citizen, what is the matter with that?"
On an individual level, that's fine. They can apply for Russian citizenship and follow legal procedure to become a citizen. That's not the problem though. Why are there Russian passports for Ukrainian and Georgian citizens when they should have Ukrainian and Georgian passports, respectively? The Russian passports are flooded into certain territories as part of a long and clever road to convince the entire small region they want to be part of his country not the one they currently reside in, so that he can cite national determinism and make them part of his country by force. What you have left is the century old debate of determinism vs sovereignty.

In terms of religion, the Russian Federation is still actively regulating religion and its spread through that law. When countries do that you should look at the way their leaders approach employment of religion at least a little cynically.

"I'm not saying he's perfect, but he's certainly much more benevolent than many Western democratic leaders"
And it just happens that his benevolence exists when it is good for him or his country. I hope Putin hasn't broken your cynicism button.

"The Russian passports are flooded into certain territories "

I never knew the Russians could generate tidal waves of tiny booklets. A Georgian still has to apply for a passport to become a Russian citizen, and that is just the normal naturalization process. Of course the countries can ban Russia from promoting it, but they haven't.

"the Russian Federation is still actively regulating religion"

Still don't see it. The Yarovaya law basically bans missionaries from preaching to those who don't wish to be preached to, which isn't really a problem since 84% of Russians are religious, and promotion of terrorism.

"I hope Putin hasn't broken your cynicism"

I am not cynical by choice.

The only way that's not regulation is if it magically doesn't need enforcement.

And yes it is a problem because attendance to religious institutions is considerably less than 84%, Russians don't actively seek being preached to.

Gee, I wonder what leon would think of such a law in the US. Say, if Hillary Clinton were to propose it. He must be pretty ambivalent about the free exercise clause.

@lethologica

well I'm 100% sure he'd be consistent.