Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

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Kremmen
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Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

#81 Post by Kremmen » Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:27 am

Claesar wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 10:08 am
2) There are no automatic replacents. Someone has to physically press a button to decide to join. It stands to reason that means they're interested in entering orders for that country in its current position.
Experience shows that reason (by your standards and mine) does not work here!

Most of the time, there are no games with positions available. Why? Because some new players, especially ones with very few points left (because they don't play well, or drop out a lot!), will just join anything and everything that costs them no points. I've been in games where a new player has joined a position with 0 SCs!

The most common reason that players drop out is because their position is hopeless. It was already a pain in the arse that new players could take over a position with <=1 SC and delay the game. Now the delays are way worse.

I mostly play games with large numbers of players. I can see how those who play standard 7-player Diplomacy don't mind, but with 17 or 34 players, an extra delay every time someone NMRs with 0 or 1 SC is just ludicrous.

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Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

#82 Post by MajorMitchell » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:42 pm

Carumba, the new penalties to reliability rating are severe, given that the only way to leave a game, other than email the Almighty Mods is to miss two sets of orders.. My RR has taken a hammering & now I'm in games I couldn't now join.
To quit two games looks like costing me four times 12%. ie 48%
I'm wondering if it's possible for me to get a negative RR.

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Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

#83 Post by MajorMitchell » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:47 pm

I might be wrong on that, maybe it will be twice times 12%. Just makes me think that a simpler way of leaving games might be useful.

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Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

#84 Post by Claesar » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:15 pm

Stop leaving games. You're not supposed to.
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Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

#85 Post by jmo1121109 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:41 pm

MajorMitchell wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:42 pm
Carumba, the new penalties to reliability rating are severe, given that the only way to leave a game, other than email the Almighty Mods is to miss two sets of orders.. My RR has taken a hammering & now I'm in games I couldn't now join.
To quit two games looks like costing me four times 12%. ie 48%
I'm wondering if it's possible for me to get a negative RR.
Well the whole point of the RR gate on games is to prevent people from joining who have a habit of leaving. As you start developing a habit of leaving the site is now blocking you from joining those games where people with that habit aren't welcomed. From a technology standpoint this is doing exactly what I want it to do.
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New England Fire Squad
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Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

#86 Post by New England Fire Squad » Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:03 pm

jmo1121109 wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:41 pm
MajorMitchell wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:42 pm
Carumba, the new penalties to reliability rating are severe, given that the only way to leave a game, other than email the Almighty Mods is to miss two sets of orders.. My RR has taken a hammering & now I'm in games I couldn't now join.
To quit two games looks like costing me four times 12%. ie 48%
I'm wondering if it's possible for me to get a negative RR.
Well the whole point of the RR gate on games is to prevent people from joining who have a habit of leaving. As you start developing a habit of leaving the site is now blocking you from joining those games where people with that habit aren't welcomed. From a technology standpoint this is doing exactly what I want it to do.
Is an update to Live RR still in the works? I'm salty and grumpy about missing 4 turns out of over 600 and having an RR of 55
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Wusti
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Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

#87 Post by Wusti » Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:48 am

The RR should be across all games still not an arbitrary reset date.

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Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

#88 Post by New England Fire Squad » Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:36 am

Wusti wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:48 am
The RR should be across all games still not an arbitrary reset date.
My point is more that I've at this point missed 4 turns out of about 700 now and its 55. It was consistently above 90 until the change. I get that I've fucked up, but man does it suck.

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Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

#89 Post by Wusti » Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:40 pm

New England Fire Squad wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:36 am
Wusti wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:48 am
The RR should be across all games still not an arbitrary reset date.
My point is more that I've at this point missed 4 turns out of about 700 now and its 55. It was consistently above 90 until the change. I get that I've fucked up, but man does it suck.
I know - I was 95% forever now I'm 70. That's 95% over 420+ completed games. It's wrecking Chaos, and probably World variants - its a god damned shocker all the way around.

NMRs were a fact of life forever - now every game is buggered. Whoever thought it was a good idea is mistaken.

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Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

#90 Post by Chaqa » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:24 pm

Similar situation to NEFS. I missed a few phases in a live game (happens) and one in a chaos game (my bad) and my RR got ranked.

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Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

#91 Post by Peregrine Falcon » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:19 pm

Thing is, there's just not that many turns in one's rating yet since it came out a month ago. Wait for the full year to pass, and a couple missed turns aren't going to be as weighted.
There's also an extra temporary penalty that goes away after a month. Wait a little without missing turns and your RR will improve.

The system does exactly what it's supposed to. Don't miss turns or your RR is going to collapse.
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Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

#92 Post by bo_sox48 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:38 pm

In addition to the above, one might also note that perceptions of what constitutes a good versus bad reliability rating will adjust accordingly as time goes on. There really is nothing wrong with a 70-75% or so reliability rating under these new calculations. Likewise, given that it is much easier for your reliability rating to recover than it used to be as long as you prove that you are not someone who frequently misses phases, a few blips might dip your rating in the short term but overall they do not really hurt you.
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Chaqa
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Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

#93 Post by Chaqa » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:01 pm

I hadn't considered the perceptions of RR hadn't changed. Just now, there's a live game queuing at 5 people. Normally I'd jump at it, but it has an 80% RR requirement. It seems very high - players like myself and NEFS, pillars of the live game community, can't join it. I've been creating my live games with RR in the 30-50 range for now to test the waters, and it's been fine.

@Peregrine - I normally try not to miss phases, but live games, being five minute intervals, stuff happens. Sometimes you go to use the restroom and you miss a phase, or your dog is stubborn and won't come in, or your power goes out.

For non-live games, I'm much more harsh on missing turns (and kick myself for the one I missed in. Stupid chaos game lol)
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Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

#94 Post by jmo1121109 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:20 am

RR does not mean the same thing it used too, and it never will again either. Previously people who had been here forever were not really penalized for NMR's because so many phases being played reduced the impact of CD's and NMR's drastically. Now though, the phase count is the same as the number of missed turns, it's only counted for the past year. So it level sets RR between old and new players to a degree.

It is still on my radar to make adjustments to RR for live games, been sick the past couple weeks though so development has been slow.
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Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

#95 Post by Chaqa » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:29 pm

Question - if a player uses up their excused turns and is put into civil disorder, and then someone else takes over that country, should the excused delay counter reset for the new player? It appears to me it currently does not.

Is this expected behavior or a bug?

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Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

#96 Post by Claesar » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:45 pm

Chaqa wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:29 pm
Question - if a player uses up their excused turns and is put into civil disorder, and then someone else takes over that country, should the excused delay counter reset for the new player? It appears to me it currently does not.

Is this expected behavior or a bug?
This is expected behaviour (i.e. it does not reset) and is working as intended.

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Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

#97 Post by Chaqa » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:55 pm

Doesn't that penalize takeovers, though? I feel like if there isn't a reset on the excuses, the takeover-person should get some sort of reward at least.

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Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

#98 Post by Magnetic24 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:13 pm

Chaqa wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:55 pm
Doesn't that penalize takeovers, though? I feel like if there isn't a reset on the excuses, the takeover-person should get some sort of reward at least.
Personally, the reward for me is getting a position that hasn't lost a full year. Since the new system came out, I've managed to get some really good positions due to this. But of course, it's always a give-and-take

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Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

#99 Post by Chaqa » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:35 pm

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=242766

The game in question turned out to be a good thing for me, but my point stands - I think if you take over a position, your excused turns should be reset - OR there should be some sort of RR benefit to taking over a position and not missing orders?

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Re: Changed RR, Missed Turns, and Game Create

#100 Post by bo_sox48 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:16 am

Takeovers are free. You’re investing nothing other than your time. The game has already been delayed by someone else missing phases. If you think the time commitment is too much and don’t think you can play without using excused turns, you do not have to take over games. The point of removing them from the game is to ensure someone else who will actually play the position takes over, not to reset the penalty and allow for further delays.
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