Abortion sucks

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flash2015
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Re: Abortion sucks

#81 Post by flash2015 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:47 pm

Octavious wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:42 pm
I sometimes forget how fortunate I am to be a Brit. I know quite a lot of religious Brits, and none of them believe that the Earth was created in six days. Even the vicars will tell you it's a metaphor. I know plenty of people who will question evolution, but they are largely scientists and I am one of them. Evolution has a number of issues with it. Hell, we don't even have a definition of species we can rely on. But debates between evolution and intelligent design don't happen. Here religion is, and has been for a considerable number of years, a bastion of left wing ideology.

Fire and brimstone old testament style preachers exist only in history books, or the occasional loon on a street corner. It is difficult to imagine them existing in large numbers in a western nation. Not impossible to imagine... it's more believable than discovering Trump is Banksy, say... but it is still very alien.
In Catholic school I too was told it was a metaphor. We went through an analyzed the escape from Egypt and deconstructed it into multiple stories (one without the magical elements and one without the magical elements) combined together. We discussed the makeup of the Gospels, which Gospel was appealing to each community (e.g. if I remember correctly Matthew with all its references to the old testament was trying to appeal to Jews) and how the later written Gospels (e.g. John) had many more magical elements to it (e.g. Mark finishes with Mary coming to the tomb and the tomb being empty leaving some ambiguity about what actually happened, later Gospels like John adds in the stories about Jesus meeting the apostles after his resurrection to leave us in no doubt).

As we all can agree on, just because we don't know everything about evolution doesn't mean that "Intelligent Design" is in any way a valid alternative theory. We have many states in the US that **still** trying to push creationism back into the secular science curriculum though they try and hide it (e.g. "we aren't teaching creationism, we are only 'teaching the controversy'").

There is a logic to taking everything in the Bible literally. Once you start saying this didn't happen and that is only a metaphor, where do you stop? Did the Assumption happen? Did the Resurrection happen (one of my lay teachers suggested it too was a metaphor)? Did the three children see Mary at Fatima? What is in the afterlife and is there really a Heaven and Hell? Was Jesus the Son Of God...or was he just a very enlightened teacher? Does prayer actually make a different? You can go down the "God of the Gaps" path - the Catholic Church whilst not pushing a Intelligent Design/Creationism path, still makes "proven" miracles part of the path to sainthood. Or you try and take absolutely everything as a metaphor...but then how is that much difference than just deciding everything for yourself anyway?

Saying "if you do X, Y and Z and believe in God without question you will go to Heaven, and if you don't you will go to Hell" is a much simpler sell...which is why I believe many Evangelical churches, especially in the USA, go down this path and which I believe is why Evangelical churches are currently the ones more likely to increase their following vs. the more "liberal" churches.

I am not saying religion does not have value. I believe the value in religion comes from its spreading of a moral code and helping people provide meaning in life which for many people is very helpful.

I should stop here. Thanks everyone for the intelligent discussion!
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Durga
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Re: Abortion sucks

#82 Post by Durga » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:27 pm

I'm just here to say: kill all the babies

orathaic
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Re: Abortion sucks

#83 Post by orathaic » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:07 am

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/p ... PXzl73XQS8

Great article on the history of abortion in the Catholic Church.

Only doesn't mention that St Brigid is reputed to have 'made a nun' s pregnancy dissappear' - for which she is remembered as performing a miracle.

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