wD Mafia Master Post

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Squigs44
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Re: wD Mafia Master Post

#101 Post by Squigs44 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:49 am

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:31 am
I oppose Rule 15. GM calls are often necessitated when the GM has made an error or omission. Players are entitled to accurate and clear information about the rules and the setup, unless the setup is closed or only semi-open, and then only to the extent that those games restrict information.

I have GMed 6 games (I think), two small and four large, and I feel no need for such a rule.

Secondly, with regard to the Peterbot, it is an unofficial game aid, and not a replacement for the GM. The GM should still be obliged to publish vote counts, at a reasonable frequency, and to check for valid votes that the bot has missed.
This rule doesn't get rid of GM calls. It gets rid of public GM calls. If errors are discovered, a private GM call should be made, and then the GM will publicly correct the error.

ND
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Re: wD Mafia Master Post

#102 Post by ND » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:25 am

I oppose rule 15
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bo_sox48
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Re: wD Mafia Master Post

#103 Post by bo_sox48 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:28 am

I don't really care for making purely reactive rules that aren't truly necessary or correcting glaring omissions from the system already in place, but I don't have much of an opinion. Contrarily, I wholeheartedly endorse this piece of advice:

If a player asks you to do something and as you consider it you begin to wonder how you're going to dance around the answer with the agility of a ninja and the creativity of a litigator, perhaps you shouldn't do the thing that player asked you to do.

If a player asks you to compromise the integrity of your game that you are pouring time and effort into for no tangible reward or benefit, perhaps you shouldn't do the thing that player asked you to do.

As a GM, you are not required to answer anything asked of you. You can say "I can't answer that." You can say "I won't answer that." You can say "fuck off with your manipulative bullshit." You're a GM. You can do just about whatever you want within the guidelines that you set for yourself and for your game.
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brainbomb
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Re: wD Mafia Master Post

#104 Post by brainbomb » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:52 am

so.... rule 15 is just rule 1
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brainbomb
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Re: wD Mafia Master Post

#105 Post by brainbomb » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:12 am

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:31 am
I oppose Rule 15. GM calls are often necessitated when the GM has made an error or omission. Players are entitled to accurate and clear information about the rules and the setup, unless the setup is closed or only semi-open, and then only to the extent that those games restrict information.

I have GMed 6 games (I think), two small and four large, and I feel no need for such a rule.

Secondly, with regard to the Peterbot, it is an unofficial game aid, and not a replacement for the GM. The GM should still be obliged to publish vote counts, at a reasonable frequency, and to check for valid votes that the bot has missed.
none of this has anything to do with the proposed rule. GMs will still answer the private messages. GMs will still fix issues and issue public statements about any mistakes. What is being prohibited by rule 15 os the players ability to publicly call out and force the gm to respond in the middle of content. the gm explaining something should not have an origin. in an effort to be fairer, and rely on the mod less. rule 15 provides an official way to deal with setup issues and problems, you arent allowed to publicly ask the gm setup questions, and arent allowed to ask mechanical questions either. the purpose is to get the gms out of the games almost entirely.

Durga
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Re: wD Mafia Master Post

#106 Post by Durga » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:33 am

I support this

Jamiet99uk
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Re: wD Mafia Master Post

#107 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:49 am

In favour of Brainbomb's proposal:

- Brianbomb
- Durga
- Squigs?


Opposed:

- Jamie T
- Bo_Sox
- ND

damo666
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Re: wD Mafia Master Post

#108 Post by damo666 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:33 pm

The rule is unnecessary. It is covered by rule 13. Concerns to GMs only therefore not by GM calls in game thread.

brainbomb
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Re: wD Mafia Master Post

#109 Post by brainbomb » Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:39 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:49 am
In favour of Brainbomb's proposal:

- Brianbomb
- Durga
- Squigs?


Opposed:

- Jamie T
- Bo_Sox
- ND
bo did not oppose anything about the rule lol.

I wanna reiterate public gm calls dont happen on mafiascum, mu, town of salem, epic mafia, hypixel, pog, 2+2, throne of lies
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damo666
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Re: wD Mafia Master Post

#110 Post by damo666 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:27 pm

It's covered by R13 which implies any concerm be relayed to GM(s) ONLY.

Under R2 GMs can say what they are willing to take GM calls for e.g. VC requests

Jamiet99uk
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Re: wD Mafia Master Post

#111 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:37 pm

brainbomb wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:39 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:49 am
In favour of Brainbomb's proposal:

- Brianbomb
- Durga
- Squigs?


Opposed:

- Jamie T
- Bo_Sox
- ND
bo did not oppose anything about the rule lol.

I wanna reiterate public gm calls dont happen on mafiascum, mu, town of salem, epic mafia, hypixel, pog, 2+2, throne of lies
Bo said he didn't care for it and such rules were "unnecessary".

Mafiascum is a shitty site with bizarre hammer mechanics and a huge dropout rate in gsmes. The standard of play there is dogshit. But, in one of the two games I played there, I made a public CallGM and was not reprimanded for doing so.

EpicMafia is not even a proper mafia site.

Jamiet99uk
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Re: wD Mafia Master Post

#112 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:41 pm

I don't get the obsession some people on webDip have with copying other sites.

Its like how PPSC was deleted because some people in the FTF community, who did not play here, made negative remarks about it

This isn't Town of Salem. It's not Mafiascum. We have evolved a way of running Mafia here that broadly works for us.

I see no reason for this rule. The best way to reduce public GM calls is for GMs to get their setups proof-read, and to take care to make accurate adjudications and give clear rulings.
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captainmeme
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Re: wD Mafia Master Post

#113 Post by captainmeme » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:29 pm

A better solution to this is already in the GM Guide.
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Jamiet99uk
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Re: wD Mafia Master Post

#114 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:54 pm

captainmeme wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:29 pm
A better solution to this is already in the GM Guide.
Preach.

This proposed rule is not needed.

ND
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Re: wD Mafia Master Post

#115 Post by ND » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:41 pm

Jamie is 100% right here.
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brainbomb
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Re: wD Mafia Master Post

#116 Post by brainbomb » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:44 pm

13.) Any issues, concerns, or complaints should be directed toward the GMs only. For concerns that require escalation beyond the GMs, contact the moderators.
14.) Violations of these rules may carry a penalty at the discretion of the GMs.


Rule 13 covers what ive proposed. So basically the GM is allowed to enforce rule 13 as they see fit.

I rescind my proposal.
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bo_sox48
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Re: wD Mafia Master Post

#117 Post by bo_sox48 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:20 am

No, that’s boring. I wanted a fight.
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Jamiet99uk
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Re: wD Mafia Master Post

#118 Post by Jamiet99uk » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:45 am

brainbomb wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:44 pm
13.) Any issues, concerns, or complaints should be directed toward the GMs only. For concerns that require escalation beyond the GMs, contact the moderators.
14.) Violations of these rules may carry a penalty at the discretion of the GMs.


Rule 13 covers what ive proposed. So basically the GM is allowed to enforce rule 13 as they see fit.

I rescind my proposal.

damo666
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Re: wD Mafia Master Post

#119 Post by damo666 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:51 pm

You're welcome

dargorygel
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Re: wD Mafia Master Post

#120 Post by dargorygel » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:32 pm

I oppose the rescinding of this proposal. Nowhere in the canon of webDiplomacy is permission given to rescind proposals. If brain wishes to fall away from his proposal, the only possible Robert's Rules option before him is to vote against his own motion, and buy us all pizza. I expect my pizza for lunch tomorrow. Because of Midwest Snow.
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