Mafia 41 - Sid Meiers Civilizaton Mafia - Official Game Thread

[DemonRHK]

@RHK care to flesh out your read list a little, do you have anything to add to it, why did you post it with such little content instead of just encouraging further discussion to allow people to make better reads?

I can try now that I'm home. I'm mostly trying to get feelings onto the page as they come to me.

You've made the single most town post of the game so far. The thing regarding the other karma needing role is more a townslip or a 4D careful omission as scum, and Occam's razor suggests the first.

Jamie is rabid to win this game, I would bet on the back of the issues with the replacement and subsequent loss of town in M40 he wants to show how he can really play and lead town. This is more Inquisition and less Pied Piper.

On Quas and Crimson: Quas puts off a feel similar to teacher a few games backs. Skilled but not scummy. Crimson on the other hand...I have a feeling but I'm not ready to go into it yet.

Town xorxes lives on his ability to gamesolve and be a massive threat as the game goes on, but xorx isn't questioning here, he's commentating. Less Dan Rather and more John Madden if you will. I don't want to get xorx deep into a game and his big reveal is the team with more people alive wins and starts posting MS paint pictures of the MafBot with circles on it.

Bozo was almost purposefully unremarkable in his posting.

Ghug is ghug. I can't tell you yet on ghug, but I'm leaning town for better or worse.

DrC hasn't posted and Thomas's entire contrib has been 'Hello', in addition to Ike and Ezio on the low activity end as well (again, pot; kettle)

[xorxes]

@worcej, given that your hardclaims have already been proven unreliable, I won't be asking you to hardclaim anything this game.

Okay caught up, few things that stood out:

1. D1 Jaime - Again, already said it, but this rabid/angry Jaime reminds me of the times he went balls-deep into freaking out @ Brain (both were VT) and then the recent mafia that he dropped out of (and was VT I believe). Calm/collected is the Jaime I inherently scum read. The Jaime that pockets someone is the one I inherently scum read. I don't see that this game yet. That all being said, is he trying to act like this to throw off reads? Maybe, but I don't think he is worthy of the D1 lynch right now.

Lynching Jamie D1 would be idiotic. It's not 100% certain that he is town yet, but if he is not it will become obvious fairly soon.

[*]Vecna's Claim - Bozo's quote covered this well:

If you are really Persia and town, claiming it is not helpful to town. The proper play would be to try to draw the NK N1, as that is the only town use for your power. Therefore, I believe either your claim is fake or you are not town.

I agree with this. I inherently put Vecna as a decent player, so if he was town I would expect him to bait the NK instead of now taking himself out of the pool. So why did he drop this claim out then? My theory is this: his claim was an attempt to create a town-clear for the later days (or eras I guess) in order to hide as scum. I'll respect the claim though and not push for him D1, since I assume the immunity is also for lynches (not confirmed yet) and instead will probably make him my wagon choice on D2.

How on earth would his claim craete a town-clear? That makes no sense. His claim is believable because there's no reasonable motivation for him to fake it as any alignment. The more likely explanation, if he is town, is that he didn't pay enough attention to what his role could do, and if he is scum that he didn't lose anything by claiming.

[*]Xorxes' 'PR Hunt' - Am I the only one that didn't feel like he was actually PR hunting, more just putting Jaime 'on the stand'?

Why would you think you are the only one? Nobody besides Jamie has paid much attention to that.

[*]Ezio's 'lie' - Honestly, I think this was just Ezio trolling, which seems to be a part of his game. NAI to me.[/list]

I want to hear what Ezio has to say about it before I can conclude anything. Last game with Ezio left me completely bewildered about his town play.

More recent thing to comment on:

nepth and jamie chill the fuck out, you guys are talking in circles lmao

I don't think I want to lynch either of you today, so can we talk abt damo666 our true lynch

I'll just say this - you're witnessing a normal damo game. He doesn't contribute much in terms of post counts or quality. He usually pockets/sheeps a player, often Jaime honestly, of some sort to make up for it down the road. It's typically NAI play from him. I would definitely see damo lynched before the likes of Jaime/rdr for those reasons.

I will agree with that.

[xorxes]

I cannot be bussed, due to my alignment.

Jamie claims SK

OMG.

The only town that could bus each other are the Masons, so presumably he would be claiming SK or non-Mason town.

[DemonRHK]

In light of the previous posts I lessen my suspicion of xorx.

[xorxes]

Xorx is commentating the game rather than solving it, and I don't like it.

Here we go again.

[xorxes]

Now, there are far more powers than players. IS THERE ANY POWER OTHER THAN AUSTRALIA THAT WE KNOW IS NOT IN PLAY?

Yes, the Mongols (third party), and maybe some others. brainbomb posted about it somewhere.

Jamie - you really ought to calm down, unless of course you are the SK. Oh but yes, you are, aren't you?

##VOTE JAMIE (not a joke)

PS Way to early for reads

Bad choice of vote.

[damo666]

I cannot be bussed, due to my alignment.

Jamie claims SK

OMG.

The only town that could bus each other are the Masons, so presumably he would be claiming SK or non-Mason town.

OK OK. I'm tired.

I'll still leave my vote there until I have any stronger vibes just because I'm fed up with the vitriol/venom/anger/bile/rage/rabidity/mouthfoaming/etc/etc/etc

[damo666]

Can somebody quote or point to where brain lists non participating powers please.

Xorxes - thanks for the Mongol info.

[xorxes]

Town xorxes lives on his ability to gamesolve and be a massive threat as the game goes on, but xorx isn't questioning here, he's commentating. Less Dan Rather and more John Madden if you will. I don't want to get xorx deep into a game and his big reveal is the team with more people alive wins and starts posting MS paint pictures of the MafBot with circles on it.

What are you talking about? MS paint pictures??? Are you confusing me with Vecna?

[DemonRHK]

Town xorxes lives on his ability to gamesolve and be a massive threat as the game goes on, but xorx isn't questioning here, he's commentating. Less Dan Rather and more John Madden if you will. I don't want to get xorx deep into a game and his big reveal is the team with more people alive wins and starts posting MS paint pictures of the MafBot with circles on it.

What are you talking about? MS paint pictures??? Are you confusing me with Vecna?

It was a dig at John Madden

[xorxes]

Things I do not like:

Jamiet accusing LordQuas and CrimsonFox of trying to "depth charge" Nephthys. LQ and CF are new here (and I feel like they might know each other?) and I think it's iffy to ascribe that kind of motive in that case.

Just iffy? It's absurd, but quite within the range of town Jamiet's performance.

Xorxes assertion that "around half of the people who haven't posted are scum".

How sure are you that I made such an assertion?

What would my scum motivation be for making such an "assertion"? Do you think it achieved anything, other than make you suspicious of me?

Do you think someone went: "xorxes said he would not be surprized if around half the people who haven't posted yet are scum, so surely half of those people must be scum"?

With game starting on a Saturday night for many of us, that seems like an attempt to paint inactivity with a malicious brush when there's a perfectly innocuous reason. I'm more inclined to take that kind of assertion seriously later on in the day.

Wouldn't saying that someone asserted something that they didn't count as more malicious?

[xorxes]

Hello

Hello.

What are your thoughts about the game so far?

[worcej]

@xorxes -

@worcej, given that your hardclaims have already been proven unreliable, I won't be asking you to hardclaim anything this game.

How about this, I hard claim I am a country.

Lynching Jamie D1 would be idiotic. It's not 100% certain that he is town yet, but if he is not it will become obvious fairly soon.

So you agree with me. I pretty much was saying that I don't think Jaime is being inherently scum.

How on earth would his claim craete a town-clear? That makes no sense. His claim is believable because there's no reasonable motivation for him to fake it as any alignment. The more likely explanation, if he is town, is that he didn't pay enough attention to what his role could do, and if he is scum that he didn't lose anything by claiming.

Let's look at it from another angle - why would Vecna claim he is the D1 invulnerable country if he was town? What value does that add to town trying to get a scum? You're right, there isn't any reasonable motivation to do it, but (to me) this is not normal Vecna behavior when he has been town. Correct me if I am wrong on that.

Why would you think you are the only one? Nobody besides Jamie has paid much attention to that.

Neph seemed like the only one going down my line of thought, but it was during my posting this original post that it came out. I was just voicing that I thought it was odd/off to say you were PR hunting when Jaime made that accusation.

I want to hear what Ezio has to say about it before I can conclude anything. Last game with Ezio left me completely bewildered about his town play.

So we wait I guess lol...

[Foxcastle]

Things I do not like:

Jamiet accusing LordQuas and CrimsonFox of trying to "depth charge" Nephthys. LQ and CF are new here (and I feel like they might know each other?) and I think it's iffy to ascribe that kind of motive in that case.

Just iffy? It's absurd, but quite within the range of town Jamiet's performance.

Which is why it's iffy, because it's Jamiet.

Xorxes assertion that "around half of the people who haven't posted are scum".

How sure are you that I made such an assertion?

What would my scum motivation be for making such an "assertion"? Do you think it achieved anything, other than make you suspicious of me?

Do you think someone went: "xorxes said he would not be surprized if around half the people who haven't posted yet are scum, so surely half of those people must be scum"?

With game starting on a Saturday night for many of us, that seems like an attempt to paint inactivity with a malicious brush when there's a perfectly innocuous reason. I'm more inclined to take that kind of assertion seriously later on in the day.

Wouldn't saying that someone asserted something that they didn't count as more malicious?

Here's what you said:

Also, I wouldn't be surprized if around half of the people who haven't posted are scum:

RHK, DoubtingT, DrCJG, Foxcastle, Ike, worcej.

You can pick nits over whether that's an assertion, implication, insinuation, suggestion, or contention. But yes, someone could certainly think "Xorxes is a good player, he thinks we should look at people who haven't posted yet" and then be primed to look for scum there whether or not it's justified.

[xorxes]

@xorxes -

@worcej, given that your hardclaims have already been proven unreliable, I won't be asking you to hardclaim anything this game.

How about this, I hard claim I am a country.

Not every civilization is a country, so that narrows it down somewhat. I'm not sure that's information you should be revealing as town.

Lynching Jamie D1 would be idiotic. It's not 100% certain that he is town yet, but if he is not it will become obvious fairly soon.

So you agree with me. I pretty much was saying that I don't think Jaime is being inherently scum.

I do agree with you.

How on earth would his claim craete a town-clear? That makes no sense. His claim is believable because there's no reasonable motivation for him to fake it as any alignment. The more likely explanation, if he is town, is that he didn't pay enough attention to what his role could do, and if he is scum that he didn't lose anything by claiming.

Let's look at it from another angle - why would Vecna claim he is the D1 invulnerable country if he was town? What value does that add to town trying to get a scum? You're right, there isn't any reasonable motivation to do it, but (to me) this is not normal Vecna behavior when he has been town. Correct me if I am wrong on that.

He gave an explanation for why he was doing it: he wanted to tell Mafia that he was a useless PR so they wouldn't kill him. It was terrible and egotistic play if town, but I'm not sure it makes it scummy.

[xorxes]

Here's what you said:

Also, I wouldn't be surprized if around half of the people who haven't posted are scum:

RHK, DoubtingT, DrCJG, Foxcastle, Ike, worcej.

You can pick nits over whether that's an assertion, implication, insinuation, suggestion, or contention. But yes, someone could certainly think "Xorxes is a good player, he thinks we should look at people who haven't posted yet" and then be primed to look for scum there whether or not it's justified.

I still stand by the assertion I actually made, as opposed to the one you made up for me.

Yes, we should look at the lower posting people, because there's likely to be a higher density of scum there than among the most prolific posters.

[Foxcastle]

Here's what you said:

Also, I wouldn't be surprized if around half of the people who haven't posted are scum:

RHK, DoubtingT, DrCJG, Foxcastle, Ike, worcej.

You can pick nits over whether that's an assertion, implication, insinuation, suggestion, or contention. But yes, someone could certainly think "Xorxes is a good player, he thinks we should look at people who haven't posted yet" and then be primed to look for scum there whether or not it's justified.

I still stand by the assertion I actually made, as opposed to the one you made up for me.

Yes, we should look at the lower posting people, because there's likely to be a higher density of scum there than among the most prolific posters.

I agree that lurking is a worrying strategy that lets scum go unnoticed for too long. I just don't like that the way you expressed it, and think that it's possible that it's scum motivated.

[bozotheclown]

Ok guys. I've read my role pm and have absolutely no idea what my alignment is. Anyone have any tips?

Hhhmmmmm, may need to stick with tradition and shoot Ezio, then we'll all know his allignment

I think you should shoot Vecna to verify his claim, and if he really is Persia, we should lynch him D2, because the only way I can see him really being Persia is if he is scum.

[ghug]

I cannot be bussed, due to my alignment.

Jamie claims SK

OMG.

The only town that could bus each other are the Masons, so presumably he would be claiming SK or non-Mason town.

He said "alignment", though. Towniness is not enough to determine bussability on its own, so he must be SK.

[brainbomb]

KARMA TALLY
Ghug - 5
Neph - 4
Squiggs - 1
CrimsonFox - 1
LordQuas - 1