Mafia XXXIV Game Thread - Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

[MeanLaQueefa]

I think the fact that yav picked brainbomb as his first scan shows that it wasn't an orchestrated effort on the scum team's part, intelligent scum would have known to choose a different target. Snowy, steve or even ezio would have worked without RHK being able to counter it. Either that or they planned the claim, but didn't think the scans through completely. My gut says this was mostly just yav doing his own thing though.

[thamrick]

I think it's very possible that scum coordinated what roles they were going to claim in case they were under pressure and that they didn't discuss specifics (who they investigated/watched/saved), especially since they would have only had 1 nights worth of info regarding who potentially was investigated/watched/saved by real town PRs.

It's possible that Yavuz just didn't pay close attention to his scum buddy RHK's claim details and just picked an obvious candidate to have investigated who couldn't contradict his claim, and RHK jumped at the opportunity to make himself look better.

It's also possible that RHK's claim is entirely true and that Yavuz just didn't think his fake claim through.

It's also possible that RHK knew that he couldn't walk back on the specifics of his claim and didn't know that Yavuz was fake claiming (because Yavuz is town and RHK would have known he could have been cop) so he rode it out.

Regardless, I don't think we should lynch RHK until there's clear evidence he isn't Watcher. But I don't think we should treat him as townclear either.

[DemonRHK]

I'm not really saying much because there isn't much to say. Yavu needs to flip. Me piling on the fact that he's lied, gotten town killed, and could have potentially gotten the real cop exposed speaks for itself. If I'd continued to jump up and down and proclaimed how much I was right doesn't help us. Shit, most of you likely still think I'm fake claiming. I know there is no way I'm getting a watch off tonight. I also think I'm unlikely to die, because so many people doubt me. I just think it's funny being the only real claim out of 4(!!), but catching the most heat for it.

Shit, just making this post is going to make people more sus of me for 'hedging a Yavu flip'. I'm convinced that no townie in the world makes a play that dumb. And I've thrown in LYLO.

[thamrick]

I'm not suspicious of you for not making more cases against Yav. I agree. It speaks for itself.

I'm suspicious of you for not attempting to help find the remaining scum. If Yav flips scum, there are still 2 more. Further your win condition. Especially if it's possible this is your last chance. You better write up EoN reads at the very least RHK.

Or at least leave me a good song containing your reads. I'll miss that when you're gone Foxy's just aren't as good, no offense Foxy.

[DemonRHK]

I'm still 100% there was scum in Jamie's townreads. My lead suspects in that pool are you and rd, but I can't deny that Mean is a possibility (Still mostly a gut feeling).

Whoever gets the gun should flip Yavu as soon as possible imo.

Should by some unholy works Yavu flips town, then the gun doesn't clear or incriminate. I think Meme is the best lynch then, barring the chance I get info watching. Anyone on the ND wagon from yesterday, especially if they hedged the cop claim, should be looked at.

Yavu flipping scum puts me on rd for the lynch and townclears the shooter (unless scum shooting each other doesn't count as counter to their wincon anymore)

Many of the points I want to make, I want to wait on. I know it's shitty, but I think it's best.

[thamrick]

No that's fine. I'm building my EoN case now too.

I'm sure scum shooting scum isn't counter to win-con just like voting for scum as scum isn't. I don't think shooting Yav townclears anyone.

[Foxcastle]

After Yavuz's cop claim, ND was always the lead wagon, and the closest Yavuz's wagon comes is near the end, when they are briefly tied. Presuming that scum know that they want ND lynched (and the only question is whether they know Yavuz is scum and wanted town cred for bussing him), then here's some thoughts...

Early on, when ND is at 3 and Yavuz is at 1, Bo_sox jumps on Yavuz (with DemonRHK) to put him one down from ND. While this may point to town, it's early enough on that scum would know that there's a lot that could happen yet.

After that, rdrivera, reedeer, and myself jump on ND, putting him way ahead. Could be scum in there.

Tom, ND, Balki, and Vash build up the ND wagon. Could be scum in there bussing early, if Yavuz is also scum; if Yavuz is town, these are more likely to be town votes.

Mean votes Yavuz at 41 minutes out, tying Yavuz and ND at 7 votes each. That points to town, as I think it's unlikely that scum would want to risk their chance at getting town to lynch two of their own or risk lynching scum Yavuz.

Balki, though, switches votes from Yav to ND. Scummy, or just an unlucky change of heart by Balki? Captainmeme follows with an ND vote that puts ND out of reach of a tie.

So Mean looks best there. Without knowing Yavuz's alignment, look for scum in Rdrivera, reedeer, Balki, Captainmeme, and myself.

[bo_sox48]

I'm not gonna be here for EON or much at all until Tuesday. The scumteam is some combination of yav, rdrivera, Vash, captainmeme, and maybe Balki or MLQ but I tend to think their back and forth is two tunneling townies. I'll build up some digestable info and maybe a case when I have time.

And yes, I know that that is more than three. I value the opinion that we can't scumread more people than there are scum players but the game isn't all that compliant to people who get stuck on one train.

[rdrivera2005]

Today I will not have time to build a full reads, and I am not sure if I will be around at EON. I don't think I am a NK target, but just in case will share some thoughts.

First, I don't think we can read much from D3. To me, voting ND was the right thing to do either as town or scum (town don't lynch a Cop claim and scum will want to lynch a town ND before Yav). I also don't read much on people voting Yav (except Demon, who I now believe is the Watcher), as scum knowing ND will flip town would want to avoid his wagon if possible.

Yav need to be shot, first thing of the day so town have time to discuss.

My top scumreads now are Reedeer, that keep hiding and Mean. I believe Yav is scum, but if for some reason we need to find a third, it might be bo, he seems a lot out of character yesterday

[thamrick]

I would argue that we shouldn't shoot Yav FIRST THING. I'd like to hear rb claims and get a chance for Yav to mount a final defense/reads on the chance he is actually town.

[thamrick]

@MLQ - more curiosity questions - where do you work?

[yavuzovic]

@Yavuz, if you are town, please spend your time trying to figure out who is scum and give us your best thoughts before the End of Night.

I will try something when I'm not busy and I will try to present the best choice before EoN. When I will be lynched, there will be a chance to lynch because a scums vote can be suspicious but you will be learnt that I'm town and you will think about my choice. I have some work and I will be here a few minutes later.

[yavuzovic]

@thamrick
What do you think about Foxcastle?
I will tell why got I suspicious about him after you tell me your opinion.

[bozotheclown]

I think yavuzovic could very well be VT. As Foxcastle pointed out, what he did was similar to shooting Ezio last game. Also, with ND flipping VT, his fake claim makes no more sense as scum than it does for town. However, there is no telling what yavuzovic might do as scum.

I have not seen anything yet to change my opinion that Vashta, reedeer, and MLQ are also reasonable scum candidates.

[yavuzovic]

@thamrick
You look online. But you're not replying me.

[thamrick]

@Yavuzovic - I've been deep in reread mode.

I'm somewhat suspicious of Foxcastle. I thought he was a pretty strong townread, but I think he has had some weird interactions today. I'm definitely going to watch him more carefully. I haven't found too much off in reread yet, but check my EoN post.

Why are you suspicious?

[yavuzovic]

I don't know but something feels wrong with him.
I really investigated him but he did nothing suspicious.
I will look to Demon now.

[thamrick]

Well that was... informative Yav... thanks.

@thamrick
I didn't investigate anyone but Mean, I don't know what are you talking about.
@Tom Bombadil
You will see why when you lynch him. I have never lynched (not voted) anyone who is not scum.

Are you sad your perfect record is ruined? It had to happen eventually since you rolled scum.

Looking forward to that Demon investigation. Hope it's as riveting as your Mean and Foxy ones were.

[Foxcastle]

I won't be around for EON, but my reads haven't changed that much.

DemonRHK - Still scum.

Bozo - Still null.

Rdrivera - Still lean town. Maybe just a little less.

Balki - Downgraded from Slight Scum to Lean Scum. His vote record was iffy to begin with, and is worse now after D3. And I'm not sure I see anything in N2-D3 that really makes me think he's town.

Reedeer - Still slight town.

Vashta - Still lean town.

Tom - I could still go either way on Tom.

Tham - Still feels scummy to me, but I admit I don't have a real strong case on that.

Bo_sox - Upgraded to lean town. He pushed Yavuz hard on D3, which I think was counter to scumteam's best interests.

Mean - I was townreading Mean, and am still townreading Mean, more strongly, even. I don't think scum would have pushed Yavuz at the last minute over ND like she did at the end of D3.

Captainmeme - I appreciate that his meta seems to be "lurk until the end, and then win whether he's scum or town", but... that's not actually helpful, and yeah, I'd lynch/shoot him.

[yavuzovic]

Whoever gets the gun should flip Yavu as soon as possible imo.

If I'm scum (what a read!) he must be another scum who wants to shut me up.
If I'm really town (I must start to play with all of my brain — nobody call theirselves as these) he is doing wrong if he still wants that. He may hide his scumrole with this message.