Mafia XXXIV Game Thread - Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

[Foxcastle]

To start: I think Yavuz has to die now, so do not interpret this as a defense.

But I think there's a real chance he's Town. After his claim, there was discussion that his messages on Page 80 could be... well, not crumbs, but Cop-signaling.

"Are there any conspicuous claim creates preassure on somebody? I mean does anyone always criminate a player?"

This was hard to read for the language barrier, but I think he's asking if hardclaiming a PR always incriminates that player.

"There's a cop and he investigates somebody. If a person charges each other, that might mean he have really strong suspicious [suspicions]."

Which, in hind sight, seems to say, a PR claim to accuse another player might just be based on strong suspicions. So here, he didn't crumb so much as signal what he might have done: fakeclaim as town to try to lynch what he thought was really scum.

This was during night phase, and there were 2 hours between his first message and the second. If he was being coached in the mafia QT, would it look different?

If he's scum, what are the chances this is was orchestrated with his scummates to sacrifice himself and protect someone else? I think this is possible, but I also tend to think that Grand Scum Conspiracies are way less likely than town thinks.

If he's scum, what are the chances he did this on his own in a really, really stupid move to just get himself killed. I think that's unlikely. Yavuz isn't that dumb.

The main thing that gives me pause is that he lied about the Brainbomb scan too. But then, last game, when he secretly shot a fellow townie, he also lied to cover that up. But I do totally believe that town-Yavuz would fakeclaim to try to lynch someone he Knew In His Heart was scum.

I think this possibility means we should be careful about how we process his exit, to try to get more information on other players before just lynching/shooting Yavuz.

[Maniac]

I fear you may be right Foxcastle about Yavuz being town who got carried away. Apart from the points you raise he claimed with absolutely no pressure on him. Earlier when he was on my shoot list, he didn't claim. PRs were explicitly instructed not to claim unless it was 100% certain it would help town (and then think twice).

I think we're getting carried away with finding 3rd scum. There is still all to play for.

Regards shooting yavuz now, there is an optimum time at night to shoot scum and that isn't now.

[rdrivera2005]

I fear you may be right Foxcastle about Yavuz being town who got carried away. Apart from the points you raise he claimed with absolutely no pressure on him. Earlier when he was on my shoot list, he didn't claim. PRs were explicitly instructed not to claim unless it was 100% certain it would help town (and then think twice).

I think we're getting carried away with finding 3rd scum. There is still all to play for.

Regards shooting yavuz now, there is an optimum time at night to shoot scum and that isn't now.

Shoots at Night adjudicate only at EON.

And if Yav is town this is the worst town play I ever seen, is so ridiculous I can't believe.

[Foxcastle]

@Yavuz, now that the truth is coming out, Yavuz, I want to you to confess if you shot Ezio, or are you still denying that?

[thamrick]

@MLQ - you said you had a lot of F2F experience playing Mafia and similar games. You mentioned that the "Witch is normally town aligned" way back. How did you incorporate roles into F2F? I only ever played vanilla roles when I've played F2F. And how does the Witch role function when town aligned?

[rdrivera2005]

@Yavuz, now that the truth is coming out, Yavuz, I want to you to confess if you shot Ezio, or are you still denying that?

Why someone with half a brain will give Yav an army?

[Foxcastle]

I don't know, rdrivera, but looking over the list of people who could have shot Ezio, I think Yavuz is the only one who would have done so as Town and then hid it, so I want him to confess if it was him.

But yes, you're right, looking over the list of people who could be Gunsmith, I can't imagine any of them giving Yavuz a gun. But then that introduces the question of why would a townie shoot Ezio unannounced and then not claim it; or why would scum shoot Ezio without some plausible cover, knowing that the Gunsmith could out them.

[yavuzovic]

@Yavuz, now that the truth is coming out, Yavuz, I want to you to confess if you shot Ezio, or are you still denying that?

I didn't shoot him, how can I accept?

[reedeer1]

I would also shoot yuav if gunned.

[MeanLaQueefa]

Tham, that's an odd question about the witch. but in F2F mafia, the witch is woken by the mod at night after the werewolves have killed someone, and they're asked if they want to use their one save per game on them (the mod gestures to the player who is dying) and they can decide. They also have a poison they can use to kill one player that they can decide to use once per game as well, only during the night.

For lots of role games, we made a sheet with all the roles and the order in which to wake them up each night for the mod to use.

Also, yav, if you were really fake claiming cop as a town vt, you'd have kept claiming it into the night so you could at least make a crappy attempt to bait a nk.

[thamrick]

@Foxy - why are you trying to paint Yav as town? I’m not denying it’s a possibility he was just stupid. But you seem to be operating under the impression he IS town

[thamrick]

@MLQ - I was just curious. Seems weird to notify the witch who is going to die ahead of time.

And I agree. I find Yav’s retraction very unbelievable.

[Foxcastle]

@Foxy - why are you trying to paint Yav as town? I’m not denying it’s a possibility he was just stupid. But you seem to be operating under the impression he IS town

I'm not trying to paint him as town, I'm just acknowledging that I think there's a reasonable explanation where he is town, and that given my previous experience of him, I think the explanation is somewhat possible.

And as for why: because scum are ahead of us on this one. They know exactly what has happened with Yavuz—whether it was a dumb scum play, a dumb town play, or a Grand Scheme to sacrifice Yavuz. We have 5+ hours before another townie dies (though I doubt much discussion will happen before then or immediately after, given it's a Sunday night and at least some of game will be watching the Superb Owl), and need to do something useful with the day phase that helps us find the next scum after Yavuz dies. At least considering the various alternatives is useful, rather than waiting for him to flip and saying "now what?"

[yavuzovic]

Haven't you shot me yet.

yuav

^Stop this reedeer, that's second time.(Nothing if we compare with brainbomb's wrong spelling of my name. 6 times.)

[thamrick]

Okay. So beyond Yav, what rocks are you kicking over?

@Yav - if you're still rooting for the town, who do you think we should look at? Likely scum candidates? You've been focused on ND so long I can't remember who else you've been suspicious of.

[Foxcastle]

If Yavuz is scum, then yesterday the scum team wanted to bus him for town credit (for when he flips scum), but still make sure ND got lynched to kill off another townie.

But if he's town, they definitely wanted to lynch ND first, and knew they won't get town credit when he flips town, and still want to lynch him today. Maybe even want to see the gunshot be wasted on him.

So I'm all for getting rid of Yavuz, because at this point his death gives us information about D3 votes and we can't trust him anyway. If we don't kill him, the scumteam probably won't kill him, because they think we'll do it for them or because they think the level of distrust at this point helps them.

[thamrick]

Yeah. It's hard to get much info out of yesterday until we know the alignment of Yav. I found the stubbornness of Bo clinging to the Yav lynch odd.

RHK has been oddly quiet for someone who thinks they've got a good likelihood of dying.

[Balki Bartokomous]

@Yavuz, if you are town, please spend your time trying to figure out who is scum and give us your best thoughts before the End of Night.

[Foxcastle]

Not to continue to tunnel on DemonRHK, but if you believe that there was a Deliberate Conspiracy™ to Yavuz's ploy that was orchestrated by the scumteam (which I think is unlikely), it's interesting that Yavuz claimed Brainbomb as his N1 copscan. As DemonRHK himself points out, one of the options is that "Someone else was badly exposed and Yavu is the sacrifice fly to try to get them under again." Without the competing Brainbomb claims, DemonRHK's watcher claim is completely separate from Yavuz's cop/ND claim.

This is only worth considering if Yavuz flips scum, though, so I'll leave it here and only come back to it for further thought/elaboration/investigation if that's the case.

[thamrick]

Not to continue to tunnel on DemonRHK, but if you believe that there was a Deliberate Conspiracy™ to Yavuz's ploy that was orchestrated by the scumteam (which I think is unlikely), it's interesting that Yavuz claimed Brainbomb as his N1 copscan. As DemonRHK himself points out, one of the options is that "Someone else was badly exposed and Yavu is the sacrifice fly to try to get them under again." Without the competing Brainbomb claims, DemonRHK's watcher claim is completely separate from Yavuz's cop/ND claim.

This is only worth considering if Yavuz flips scum, though, so I'll leave it here and only come back to it for further thought/elaboration/investigation if that's the case.

I agree that we shouldn't blindly accept RHK's claim or his inevitable claim of a RB.