M59 - Duck Season? - Game Thread

[yavuzovic]

Well, I reckon this shouldn't be too difficult now. Imo everyone on MF is town with the possible exception of seth. Don't see anyone else bussing there.

Look at Flum's way of interacting with the wagon though.

He gets in on the early bus-slot, but tries at every opportunity to get off again and get other shit starting. Until I call him out on it, and he swoops right back onto the wagon.

I know everyone is telling me my suspicion is wrong there, but I really dont see any reason for why everyone is townreading the slot so hard.

This speculation assumes flash is town, which I am not sure is correct.

Now this post made me realise that Vecna predicted that flash is town. While this is pretty likely, I retract my townread for Vecna. He was bored of being townread by everyone. Let's scumread him a little

[bozotheclown]

The problem with the argument that flash is scum and was self-voting to try and save Moscow is that when flash voted, there were a whole *3 hours* to go, and the vote count was at 4 Flash, 4 Moscow, 3 Macca, 3 Food, 2 Damo.


What possible reason would a scumteam of Flash + Moscow have in that scenario for not piling onto one of the other perfectly viable options there, and instead resort to some sort of miserable self-sacrificing strategy that severely decreases the chances of a town being daykilled?

It's not like flash took an opportunity to jump onto any of the Food, Damo, or yavuzovic wagons that came close to taking the lead later on either. I really don't buy this argument in the slightest - The only way it makes any sense at all is if literally all of those wagons were scum.

Ok but why did Moscow stick on Yav . Why didn't he move to Flash? Unless he wasnt here at EOD.

In rereading MF, he did say earlier that he would miss EOD. However, choosing yavuzovic over flash when he was leaving does not look good for flash, especially since MF ignored flash in his reasoning for his final vote after previously indicating he was not opposed to a flash kill.

[kgray]

rdrivera is scum

Why?

[bozotheclown]

The MF wagon is full of known bussers, so I would not be surprised if there is an early busser even if flash is town. Even kgray is possible, she seemed to be scum reading MF for a long time but did not vote for him until the last half hour.

This seems like a pointless statement. Can you name anybody who hasn't bussed as scum at some point?

After looking at MF's scum games, I would say MF.

[bozotheclown]

I love tie votes as scum. Why wouldn't scum!yavuzovic want to keep it tied?

But I guess I'm not sure why he'd change his vote at all if he knew it was tied and wanted to keep it that way. Probably he'd just pretend to miss EOD.

Okay. So maybe ##vote Moscow.

That it took half an hour and rdrivera's questioning to come to this conclusion concerns me as well, especially since you were pursuing this over voting for MF, who you seemed suspicious of all D1.

I saw something that I thought was incredibly suspect and jumped on it. I was excited, I thought I caught scum. I was looking for other people's opinions on the situation and trying to figure out why others didn't react how I did.

Yeah, I was suspicious of Moscow for all of D1, and his vote for Yavuzovic really rubbed me the wrong way. And I didn't have an opinion on flash, and I liked the people on the Moscow wagon.

Why did you stick with foodcoats for so long before voting for yavuzovic after MF became a top wagon?

[kgray]

That it took half an hour and rdrivera's questioning to come to this conclusion concerns me as well, especially since you were pursuing this over voting for MF, who you seemed suspicious of all D1.

I saw something that I thought was incredibly suspect and jumped on it. I was excited, I thought I caught scum. I was looking for other people's opinions on the situation and trying to figure out why others didn't react how I did.

Yeah, I was suspicious of Moscow for all of D1, and his vote for Yavuzovic really rubbed me the wrong way. And I didn't have an opinion on flash, and I liked the people on the Moscow wagon.

Why did you stick with foodcoats for so long before voting for yavuzovic after MF became a top wagon?

I was and still am suspicious of foodcoats and I would have been happy to see him flip.

[Hellenic Riot]

The problem with the argument that flash is scum and was self-voting to try and save Moscow is that when flash voted, there were a whole *3 hours* to go, and the vote count was at 4 Flash, 4 Moscow, 3 Macca, 3 Food, 2 Damo.


What possible reason would a scumteam of Flash + Moscow have in that scenario for not piling onto one of the other perfectly viable options there, and instead resort to some sort of miserable self-sacrificing strategy that severely decreases the chances of a town being daykilled?

It's not like flash took an opportunity to jump onto any of the Food, Damo, or yavuzovic wagons that came close to taking the lead later on either. I really don't buy this argument in the slightest - The only way it makes any sense at all is if literally all of those wagons were scum.

MF was always tied for the lead or behind only flash, so if flash had voted for foodcoats, damo, or yavuzovic at any point, it would look like he was protecting MF. That is why it makes sense even if foodcoats, damo, and yavuzovic are all town.

There was a giant opportunity to vote yavu in particular because of the vote-tie thing. Flash did not take it. Therefore, I do not buy that Flash is scum. It doesn't matter if he "might look like he was protecting MF" - That's still infinitely better than either Flash or MF being killed if they're scum.

[bozotheclown]

This seems like a pointless statement. Can you name anybody who hasn't bussed as scum at some point?

Me

Really? You've never bussed a partner?

I still think the statement is pointless. I don't think that scum is necessarily more or less likely to bus based on previous history, and it depends more on the situation of the current game itself. I wouldn't be surprised either if there was scum bussing Moscow, but just calling out people on a scum wagon because they've bussed in the past is lazy, especially for bozo.

Obviously I disagree, I was making a point, and the point was that there are players on MF's wagon who have demonstrated their willingness to bus in that situation. It was counterpoint to rdrivera who was quick to claim almost all MF voters to be town.

[damo666]

The MF wagon is full of known bussers, so I would not be surprised if there is an early busser even if flash is town. Even kgray is possible, she seemed to be scum reading MF for a long time but did not vote for him until the last half hour.

This seems like a pointless statement. Can you name anybody who hasn't bussed as scum at some point?

After looking at MF's scum games, I would say MF.

townpoints for Macca and Yav then

[kgray]

Me

Really? You've never bussed a partner?

I still think the statement is pointless. I don't think that scum is necessarily more or less likely to bus based on previous history, and it depends more on the situation of the current game itself. I wouldn't be surprised either if there was scum bussing Moscow, but just calling out people on a scum wagon because they've bussed in the past is lazy, especially for bozo.

Obviously I disagree, I was making a point, and the point was that there are players on MF's wagon who have demonstrated their willingness to bus in that situation. It was counterpoint to rdrivera who was quick to claim almost all MF voters to be town.

Well I agree with not accepting all Moscow voters to be town. I don't think voting for him automatically "clears" anybody. But I think if you wanted to make a point about bussing it would be more effective for you to say who you think bussed and why. Voting for scum in itself is not scum-indicative no matter how many times that person has bussed as scum in previous games.

[bozotheclown]

I saw something that I thought was incredibly suspect and jumped on it. I was excited, I thought I caught scum. I was looking for other people's opinions on the situation and trying to figure out why others didn't react how I did.

Yeah, I was suspicious of Moscow for all of D1, and his vote for Yavuzovic really rubbed me the wrong way. And I didn't have an opinion on flash, and I liked the people on the Moscow wagon.

Why did you stick with foodcoats for so long before voting for yavuzovic after MF became a top wagon?

I was and still am suspicious of foodcoats and I would have been happy to see him flip.

So foodcoats was your preferred kill between foodcoats and MF, prior to MF voting for yavuzovic?

[kgray]

This seems like a pointless statement. Can you name anybody who hasn't bussed as scum at some point?

After looking at MF's scum games, I would say MF.

townpoints for Macca and Yav then

Why are you not also giving Tom and summit townpoints?

[bozotheclown]

The problem with the argument that flash is scum and was self-voting to try and save Moscow is that when flash voted, there were a whole *3 hours* to go, and the vote count was at 4 Flash, 4 Moscow, 3 Macca, 3 Food, 2 Damo.


What possible reason would a scumteam of Flash + Moscow have in that scenario for not piling onto one of the other perfectly viable options there, and instead resort to some sort of miserable self-sacrificing strategy that severely decreases the chances of a town being daykilled?

It's not like flash took an opportunity to jump onto any of the Food, Damo, or yavuzovic wagons that came close to taking the lead later on either. I really don't buy this argument in the slightest - The only way it makes any sense at all is if literally all of those wagons were scum.

MF was always tied for the lead or behind only flash, so if flash had voted for foodcoats, damo, or yavuzovic at any point, it would look like he was protecting MF. That is why it makes sense even if foodcoats, damo, and yavuzovic are all town.

There was a giant opportunity to vote yavu in particular because of the vote-tie thing. Flash did not take it. Therefore, I do not buy that Flash is scum. It doesn't matter if he "might look like he was protecting MF" - That's still infinitely better than either Flash or MF being killed if they're scum.

Voting for foodcoats, damo, and yavuzovic was also better than self voting if flash is town.

[kgray]

Why did you stick with foodcoats for so long before voting for yavuzovic after MF became a top wagon?

I was and still am suspicious of foodcoats and I would have been happy to see him flip.

So foodcoats was your preferred kill between foodcoats and MF, prior to MF voting for yavuzovic?

I'm not sure I had a strong preference.

[goldfinger0303]

Shit, I just scum slipped. Sorry team.

Does Durga usually joke about this as scum?

Ghug I know will do stuff like this as town. Maybe worcej has too when heated.
Bo I know has outwardly claimed scum as scum and gotten away with it. I have done it as well. I think maybe HR too?
I just don't have enough history with Durga to know which camp she falls in.

[kgray]

@bozo have you ever seen scum self-vote as a ploy? And if so, did it work?

[damo666]

After looking at MF's scum games, I would say MF.

townpoints for Macca and Yav then

Why are you not also giving Tom and summit townpoints?

Only looked at the last few hours of the day.

[kgray]

townpoints for Macca and Yav then

Why are you not also giving Tom and summit townpoints?

Only looked at the last few hours of the day.

Why?

[goldfinger0303]

After looking at MF's scum games, I would say MF.

townpoints for Macca and Yav then

Why are you not also giving Tom and summit townpoints?

Agreed. That seems a bit selective there damo

[damo666]

Shit, I just scum slipped. Sorry team.

Does Durga usually joke about this as scum?

Ghug I know will do stuff like this as town. Maybe worcej has too when heated.
Bo I know has outwardly claimed scum as scum and gotten away with it. I have done it as well. I think maybe HR too?
I just don't have enough history with Durga to know which camp she falls in.

I think it's just NAI sarcasm. If anything you look way scummier for posing the question than Durga did for making the statement which was clearly tongue in cheek.