how tf am i suppose to join games?

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jonachad
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how tf am i suppose to join games?

#1 Post by jonachad » Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:36 pm

Just made my account and apparently i dont have the required reliability to play. what a nice fucking game.
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90kicvesb
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Re: how tf am i suppose to join games?

#2 Post by 90kicvesb » Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:37 pm

You can increase your reliability rating by playing bot games.
Games -> Create a New Game -> Play a Game Against Bots
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chluke
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Re: how tf am i suppose to join games?

#3 Post by chluke » Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:51 pm

@jonachad, you can disregard 90kicvesb's answer (unless you want to play against bots) because you start with a perfect 100% "reliability rating" since you have not missed any in-game turns.

Simply choose games/new games, and there are up to 36 current games filling for you to choose from. You should be able to join any game that is public and does not require a buy-in over 100 points.

Note, it does take time for games to fill, and not all games fill to launch.
jonachad wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:36 pm
Just made my account and apparently i dont have the required reliability to play. what a nice fucking game.
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Claesar
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Re: how tf am i suppose to join games?

#4 Post by Claesar » Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:34 am

chluke wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:51 pm
@jonachad, you can disregard 90kicvesb's answer (unless you want to play against bots) because you start with a perfect 100% "reliability rating" since you have not missed any in-game turns.
...
When the OP post, they did not have a reliabity rating yet. The advice of 90kicvesb was sound and helped jonachad receive an RR. They're in several games by now.
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chluke
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Re: how tf am i suppose to join games?

#5 Post by chluke » Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:07 pm

It doesn't seem right that someone should start with less than 100% reliability since they haven't missed any turns. How are they supposed to join any games if they start with a low RR and don't want to play against bots? A lot of us don't want to play against bots. I never had to play against bots.

Nevertheless, thank you for clarifying, @Claesar.
Claesar wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:34 am

When the OP post, they did not have a reliabity rating yet. The advice of 90kicvesb was sound and helped jonachad receive an RR. They're in several games by now.
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Squigs44
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Re: how tf am i suppose to join games?

#6 Post by Squigs44 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:02 am

chluke wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:07 pm
It doesn't seem right that someone should start with less than 100% reliability since they haven't missed any turns. How are they supposed to join any games if they start with a low RR and don't want to play against bots? A lot of us don't want to play against bots. I never had to play against bots.

Nevertheless, thank you for clarifying, @Claesar.
Claesar wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:34 am

When the OP post, they did not have a reliabity rating yet. The advice of 90kicvesb was sound and helped jonachad receive an RR. They're in several games by now.
This decision is likely borne out of the high percentage of players that never finish their first game.
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Claesar
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Re: how tf am i suppose to join games?

#7 Post by Claesar » Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:25 am

While we understand it can be regarded as unfair towards the new players, this was done to protect the veterans. Imagine you'd like a quality game with reliable players, so you set a high RR requirement. A player, that has never entered a single move, enters your game. That's not what you bargained for, yet not everyone has the :points: to ask for a 101 entry on every game.

You have to keep in mind as well that many new people who come to this site join 1-3 games and then realise we don't offer live action. One turn/day is not what they were looking for. There's a high drop-out rate among new joiners, as Squigs alluded to.

New players don't have to play against bots. They need only to complete a single turn against them. If that's too much to ask for, are we really even looking for this player on the site? The joining information is as clear as we can manage to explain all this. New players that struggle have chosen to ignore all joining info, including "don't multi or metagame".

I view it as a fair barrier to entry. A quality check. I reckon you overestimate the overlap between useful new joiners, and people who can't figure out how to get an RR.
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Octavious
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Re: how tf am i suppose to join games?

#8 Post by Octavious » Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:53 am

Is this made clear to new players? Do they all get a nice welcoming message encouraging them to play game against the bots so they can get a feel for how things work and a reliability rating?

Speaking as a veteran player / old fart I'd feel far more protected by a healthy stream of new blood being properly welcomed to the site than the various ratings and points barriers we've built up over the years.
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Yonni
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Re: how tf am i suppose to join games?

#9 Post by Yonni » Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:57 am

This. My biggest concern with this site is (what appears to me as) a decrease in the amount of FP players. I could be mistaken, but it seems to be ess active than in the past and this is during a pandemic when I would expect the opposite to be true.

Yonni
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Re: how tf am i suppose to join games?

#10 Post by Yonni » Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:57 am

Welcome to the site Jona. Hope you stick around. It's a great game and a great community

chluke
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Re: how tf am i suppose to join games?

#11 Post by chluke » Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:20 pm

Seriously, though, playing "bots" should NOT be the answer. I understand the concern, but there are other ways around this. Playing one turn against a "bot" raises your RR?!? Really. Press Diplomacy players do not join WebDip to play bots. And, showing you can enter a turn or more against a bot at your own pace, where each turn processes whenever you want it to, is not the same as being reliable in a longer game phase against humans.

Maybe new players should start with an RR around 60?? (Do they start now with ZERO?, not sure?) That way, if vets want to play a game below 101 points, they can set RR at 70+.

Octavious makes a great point -- are new users educated on RR? I think a lot of new players NMR and CD because they don't even understand the consequences.

I've always believed that EVERY GAME SHOULD START WITH A MESSAGE TO ALL PLAYERS, something to the effect:

"Thank you for joining this game. Please note that failing to enter and save orders on time will lower your Reliability Rating and will affect your ability to join future games."
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bo_sox48
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Re: how tf am i suppose to join games?

#12 Post by bo_sox48 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:27 pm

I am moving this topic to the feedback section so we can continue this conversation.

cdngooner
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Re: how tf am i suppose to join games?

#13 Post by cdngooner » Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:05 pm

I joined in March and I have to agree that the reliability rules were a bit opaque to me (and I'm a lawyer used to reading rules, and I did read the rules on this site).

I agree with Octavious that there should be a message to new users welcoming them to the site and introducing them to some basic concepts. Perhaps that is all there in the FAQ's but perception is important.

I also agree with Chluke that it would be more natural if RR started at, say, 50 and went up with every turn played on time, and down with every turn missed. As it stands a RR of 100 could mean a very reliable player (like me) or an absolute newbie.
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gimix
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Re: how tf am i suppose to join games?

#14 Post by gimix » Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:24 am

I don't remember having problems in finding a few games when i first joined a couple of years ago. I suppose i just found some RR=0 games - maybe i've been lucky.
But playing with bots, or finding a zero requirement game, are not the only answers: you can create your own game (RR=0 of course) perhaps advertise it on the forum and/or the Discord server, and have people join it.

That said, expanding on the suggestions by Octavious and Chluke, i think it would be very useful to have:
- a welcome/explanation page when you join the site and perhaps another one each time you join/create a game (for your first N games?)
- a temporary RR of X% until you finish your first N games, and then the real RR which at that point can be computed on a small but acceptable data set - it has already been noted that with our current system the newbie starts at 0%, which is too low, but then jumps at 100% after just one non-missed turn, which is too high
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GameKat
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Re: how tf am i suppose to join games?

#15 Post by GameKat » Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:11 am

When I joined last month I found the clarity of information so poor I played a few bot games, then left for another platform. I finally found the necessary info on Reddit and am giving this site another go. I would not describe the UX/UI for a new user as friendly.
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gimix
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Re: how tf am i suppose to join games?

#16 Post by gimix » Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:01 am

It would be interesting to know what exactly was not clear. Different people may have difficulties regarding different aspects... Diplomacy rules in general, site rules/concepts (reliability rating, webdip points, etc), how to find/join/create games, how to play the games you joined/created. What was unclear to you?
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GameKat
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Re: how tf am i suppose to join games?

#17 Post by GameKat » Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:25 am

The first thing you want to do is join a game, and doing that for me was not intuitive. In 2020, an auto-generated welcome message with an explanatory video of the main site features, would seem to me to be a minimum requirement, even if it is hosted on YouTube, and particularly when the site is less than simple to navigate.

I'd suggest in general a site like this needs to be aware of a couple of points if it wants to flourish. First, there are several alternatives, and one in particular is much more attractive and easier to use.

Second, like many hobbies, Diplomacy has a tendency to be a bit cliquey. This tends to get magnified at long-running sites. I believe this raises the required bar when it comes to making the site easy to navigate and use. A newbie wants to feel welcomed. Or they just go somewhere else.
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Peregrine Falcon
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Re: how tf am i suppose to join games?

#18 Post by Peregrine Falcon » Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:03 pm

Additionally, the default reliability rating in game creation is 80. That means new players can't join default games right off the bat.
Under the current system, perhaps there should be no default game RR? If the new player RR system was changed for them to start at 60 or something, then perhaps a default of 60?
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bo_sox48
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Re: how tf am i suppose to join games?

#19 Post by bo_sox48 » Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:09 pm

As far as making the site friendlier for someone that just arrived, here's what I'm hearing from this conversation thus far:

• Default RR X% for new players = default game RR
• Do not change or calculate RR until a X turns/games have been played
• More visible FAQ for new users w/ focus on how to play, perhaps individual how-to popups on game create/join pages?

Keep em coming
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GameKat
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Re: how tf am i suppose to join games?

#20 Post by GameKat » Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:56 am

Abandoning a bot game shouldn't lower your RR? I'm told the bots are okay with this suggestion.
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