Winning as Austria against bots?

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Swede03
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Winning as Austria against bots?

#1 Post by Swede03 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:49 pm

Is this possible? I've tried a number of times, and I have been eliminated almost every time. It's nearly impossible to get Russia or Italy as an ally, and Turkey eventually stabs in almost every game. Take this as an example

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=308460

I actually got 5 scs in the first year, but there was nearly impossible for me to do much except support hold until the floodgates broke.

Claesar
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Re: Winning as Austria against bots?

#2 Post by Claesar » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:44 pm

Yes, it's been done many times. As with regular Gunboat against humans, Austria has the highest elimination rate but also strong solo potential once you get to the midgame. I'll post some links later.

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Re: Winning as Austria against bots?

#3 Post by Claesar » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:01 pm

In this Terminator tournament game, Chaqa solos as Austria: http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=247222

Here I drew playing Austria in the Terminator tournament after being attacked by Italy and Turkey. http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=251697 (It was probably a locked French solo, but the bot didn't see that)

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Re: Winning as Austria against bots?

#4 Post by Claesar » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:10 pm

Swede03 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:49 pm
...
https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=308460

I actually got 5 scs in the first year, but there was nearly impossible for me to do much except support hold until the floodgates broke.
Nearly impossible, but whenever you did get the chance you failed to support the bots. Your strategy would probably not have worked against humans either. There were other chances, but in Autumn 1902 you definitely should've supported either Turkey or Russia to Rumania. Greece didn't even have an order this turn! I would've attacked you just for that and I'm glad the bots did too.

Turkey was on your side in this game, but you never helped them in a meaningful way. Russia could've been swayed too. Support the bots (and humans!) to show you wish to ally them.

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Re: Winning as Austria against bots?

#5 Post by Swede03 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:49 pm

Claesar wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:10 pm
Swede03 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:49 pm
...
https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=308460

I actually got 5 scs in the first year, but there was nearly impossible for me to do much except support hold until the floodgates broke.
Nearly impossible, but whenever you did get the chance you failed to support the bots. Your strategy would probably not have worked against humans either. There were other chances, but in Autumn 1902 you definitely should've supported either Turkey or Russia to Rumania. Greece didn't even have an order this turn! I would've attacked you just for that and I'm glad the bots did too.

Turkey was on your side in this game, but you never helped them in a meaningful way. Russia could've been swayed too. Support the bots (and humans!) to show you wish to ally them.
Actually, in the referenced turn, I supported Turkey from Constantinople to Rumania, because that is where they moved from the previous turn, however, they changed and attacked from Bulgaria, resulting in a failed support

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Re: Winning as Austria against bots?

#6 Post by Swede03 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:44 pm

I finally did it! It took 17 years, but I did it. Germany even held Vienna for two years.

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... nocache=88
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Re: Winning as Austria against bots?

#7 Post by FxFocus » Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:14 am


Claesar
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Re: Winning as Austria against bots?

#8 Post by Claesar » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:47 am

Swede03 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:49 pm
Actually, in the referenced turn, I supported Turkey from Constantinople to Rumania, because that is where they moved from the previous turn, however, they changed and attacked from Bulgaria, resulting in a failed support
No, you did that in A03 which was way too late.

Congrats on the solo though!

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Re: Winning as Austria against bots?

#9 Post by Swede03 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:58 am

Yeah, I should have used Serbia to support a move to Rumania in Autumn 1902. One thing I noticed about both the other games is that Italy played Lepanto in both, which is the main reason Turkey fell.

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Re: Winning as Austria against bots?

#10 Post by Claesar » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:45 am

Swede03 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:58 am
Yeah, I should have used Serbia to support a move to Rumania in Autumn 1902. One thing I noticed about both the other games is that Italy played Lepanto in both, which is the main reason Turkey fell.
Yes, Italy doing a Lepanto helps a lot. Nonetheless, in the draw that I posted Italy and Turkey both attacked me but my Russian ally bailed me out.

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Re: Winning as Austria against bots?

#11 Post by Swede03 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:37 pm

Claesar wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:45 am
Swede03 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:58 am
Yeah, I should have used Serbia to support a move to Rumania in Autumn 1902. One thing I noticed about both the other games is that Italy played Lepanto in both, which is the main reason Turkey fell.
Yes, Italy doing a Lepanto helps a lot. Nonetheless, in the draw that I posted Italy and Turkey both attacked me but my Russian ally bailed me out.
Similar in the one where I won. I wound up fighting both Turkey and Russia, and later Germany and England, but Italy fought in the west the whole time and we later fought England together.

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Re: Winning as Austria against bots?

#12 Post by FxFocus » Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:25 am

Did it again last Sunday so definitely possible...
https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=308804

BismarckAlive
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Re: Winning as Austria against bots?

#13 Post by BismarckAlive » Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:58 pm

http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?g ... #gamePanel

This is one I won by end 1908. I guess the common ground with some others is (1) Italy not attacking you (2) Turkey going after Russia. Once Austria gets BUL and RUM, it becomes a solid army power in the centre. And once Italy commits to Iberia, the walk into Italy is the beginning of the end. I guess in this game, getting MUN relatively early was key. As is my perceived BOT inability to try coordinate to stop an 11/12/13 centre power from going on to win...

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Re: Winning as Austria against bots?

#14 Post by Bark » Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:14 am

Italy never Lepantos when you play as Austria. I've seen Italy attack France sometimes in S'01. I usually see Italy just full on attack you in S'01, 9 out of 10 times. I never see Italy play the way 99% of human players play Italy in S'01.

Now will come some rationalizations about the algorithm, but if the bot game is unrealistic, it's merely a novelty.
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Re: Winning as Austria against bots?

#15 Post by DougJoe » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:24 pm

Bark wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:14 am
Italy never Lepantos when you play as Austria.
Most of the time, no, but never say never...
http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?g ... #gamePanel

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Re: Winning as Austria against bots?

#16 Post by Claesar » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:37 am

Bark wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:14 am
Italy never Lepantos when you play as Austria. I've seen Italy attack France sometimes in S'01. I usually see Italy just full on attack you in S'01, 9 out of 10 times. I never see Italy play the way 99% of human players play Italy in S'01.

Now will come some rationalizations about the algorithm, but if the bot game is unrealistic, it's merely a novelty.
Your perspective is unrealistic, and proven wrong.

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Re: Winning as Austria against bots?

#17 Post by DougJoe » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:25 pm

Some hard data, if anyone is interested:

I manually went through my 48 bot games where I wasn't Italy and tried to compile some stats about Bot Austria's behavior:

26 times (54%) Austria was the first country Italy attacked (with no move on Italy by Austria, generally an aggressive move in S/F of 1901)
16 times (25%) Turkey was the first country Italy attacked
5 times (11%) France was the first country Italy attacked
1 time (2%) *Germany* was the first country Italy attacked
...and 5 times (11%) Italy was playing defense or it was not clear which country it initially considered its "enemy". (For example, the game where I, as Austria, played Tri->Ven as per the southern 'hog and actually got into Venice when I didn't intend to... Italy played Ven->Tyo and Rom->Apu, so I'm not sure of his intentions. I moved back to Tri in the fall but he tried to kick me out and took Tun with the fleet.)

...so Italy does do a Lepanto more often than it feels like... and the 25% matches pretty closely with my win percentage as Austria.

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Re: Winning as Austria against bots?

#18 Post by DougJoe » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:09 pm

DougJoe wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:25 pm
Some hard data, if anyone is interested:

I manually went through my 48 bot games where I wasn't Italy and tried to compile some stats about Bot Austria's behavior:

26 times (54%) Austria was the first country Italy attacked (with no move on Italy by Austria, generally an aggressive move in S/F of 1901)
16 times (25%) Turkey was the first country Italy attacked
5 times (11%) France was the first country Italy attacked
1 time (2%) *Germany* was the first country Italy attacked
...and 5 times (11%) Italy was playing defense or it was not clear which country it initially considered its "enemy". (For example, the game where I, as Austria, played Tri->Ven as per the southern 'hog and actually got into Venice when I didn't intend to... Italy played Ven->Tyo and Rom->Apu, so I'm not sure of his intentions. I moved back to Tri in the fall but he tried to kick me out and took Tun with the fleet.)

...so Italy does do a Lepanto more often than it feels like... and the 25% matches pretty closely with my win percentage as Austria.
...Stats about bot Italy's behavior...
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Re: Winning as Austria against bots?

#19 Post by Ogion » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:41 am

Ironically, I just discovered the bots and working my way through the powers to win with each. I just started with Austria, but this last game, I was attacked by Italy, Russia, Turkey AND GERMANY! in Spring 1901. In fact, the thing that saved my bacon was that Germany and Italy were fighting each other over Tyrolia, a key position for Austria-killing. I have to say, that made for some long odds. Apparently, it was some kind of Wester Triple, which France would have won having stabbed a completely empty Germany and England, which Germany reacted to by.... disbanding all its units in Germany while keeping Serbia, Galicia and Tyrolia. Hmm. That was, shall we say, an unusual game.

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Re: Winning as Austria against bots?

#20 Post by RoganJosh » Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:45 pm

I though Germany opening to Tyrolia was anti-French, no? The natural continuation being Piedmont.

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