Advanced Maneuvers

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swordsman3003
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Advanced Maneuvers

#1 Post by swordsman3003 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:25 pm

A guest post by VillageIdiot! Discover the hidden treasures of Advanced Diplomacy Maneuvers...
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Re: Advanced Maneuvers

#2 Post by VillageIdiot » Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:58 pm

I dunno if i'd really want to take advice from an idiot. That's just crazy.

Shit, now i need a whole new bag of tricks.
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jmo1121109
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Re: Advanced Maneuvers

#3 Post by jmo1121109 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:23 am

VillageIdiot wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:58 pm
I dunno if i'd really want to take advice from an idiot. That's just crazy.

Shit, now i need a whole new bag of tricks.
Ahhhh, I love this post. Some of my favorite tricks that individually seem improbably to use, but when hosted together end up giving people solo's they would never otherwise get. For example http://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID= ... Type=large

Knowing I could use "Trading Places Convoy (The Loop)" against London in Autumn, 1909 meant I got a 3rd build instead of a disbanded unit, and didn't have to divert other key units from other fronts. Because who in their right mind would expect I would try and take London by convoy. If VI was in the game and was London and knew I was Munich, that likely would not have worked. But given the rarity of the move I was 100% sure it would work for me.

Having those advanced plays in your pocket is invaluable.

A few other comments on some of the tactics mentioned:
Hostile Support to Counter a Self-Standoff: This is actually very often applicable early in games against Austria. When Italy or Russia threaten from Venice, Tyrolia, or Galicia, a self bounce is often the best Austrian counter. If Austria is in Serbia and albania, they may choose to self bounce in trieste, supporting Serbia in can allow Turkey to take it, losing a build for Austria, blocking them from building a fleet in Trieste, and giving an ally a build that is otherwise impossible. Setup with some diplomacy backing it, this is one of my favorite tools.

The masters tournament has seen an example of "Hostile Support to Harass an Enemy Alliance" though because it is ongoing I will update this post with the example later. But it opened up a possible solo where only a stalemate line would have existed before.

I strongly recommend everyone carefully study these tactics and carefully look for possible uses in your games. They might not come around often but when they are applicable, they are game changing. VillageIdiot is hands down one of the best players online diplomacy has ever seen and I've never seen a better breakdown of the tactics that I frequently use to achieve solo's that too often other players draw in because of a lacking grasp of tactics.

Edit: In fact I'm moving this to be a global post on the forum because everyone who wants to get better as a player should read it.
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bo_sox48
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Re: Advanced Maneuvers

#4 Post by bo_sox48 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:32 am

jmo1121109 wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:23 am
tactics that I frequently use to achieve solo's
hmmmmm
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Re: Advanced Maneuvers

#5 Post by VillageIdiot » Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:55 am

Thanks JMO, appreciate the endorsement and comments. Thanks also for Swordsman/Brother Bored for allowing me to guest on his site. https://brotherbored.com is the best blog going for Diplomacy advice and was an honour to be asked to be a part of it. If you haven't subscribed to his site by now you definitely should, it's both informative and a very entertaining read.

If anybody has any additional fringe maneuvers to add that i've overlooked, i'd absolutely love to hear about them. Would make my day to hear about a new tactic!
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Mercy
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Re: Advanced Maneuvers

#6 Post by Mercy » Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:11 am

Good article, as usual, and nice seeing guest posts.
VillageIdiot wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:55 am
If anybody has any additional fringe maneuvers to add that i've overlooked, i'd absolutely love to hear about them. Would make my day to hear about a new tactic!
I think the 'defend by moving' tactic could have been added to part 2, about complex defensive tactics. I assume you already know the tactic but I think it would have been a good fit to the article.

Here is how it goes: Suppose you are France and you have an army in Paris and Marseilles. Germany has armies in Burgundy and Piedmond. You have no units adjacent to Marseilles or Piedmond. Because you cannot support hold Marseilles or cut support from Piedmond, if Germany is thinking simplistically, he will likely think he can guarantee Marseilles by moving Burgundy to Marseilles with support of Piedmond. However, you can counter by moving Marseilles to Burgundy with support of Paris, which will result in a standoff.
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RoganJosh
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Re: Advanced Maneuvers

#7 Post by RoganJosh » Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:42 am

Very nice! I don't wanna mention names, but I know one player who recently lost two 1v1 games who might wanna have a look at the 'Beleagured Garrison Exploit.'

Agree with Mercy that 'attack is the best defense' should be included.

You could also add something about simple convoys. For example, Italian F TYS and A Rom can cover both TYS and Tun from a single French fleet in WMS if you convoy the army to Tunis. Maybe not 'advanced' enough, but there are a lot of options with convoys that newer players overlook.

Besides that, I would probably include a note about retreats happening after the adjudication. That is, if you are expecting a unit to be attacked and dislodged, not moving it can be a very strong order, as it forces your opponent to reveal their orders before you decide what to do with the unit. Particularly strong if moving the unit risks a bounce that could block possible retreat options.

There are also more obscure things like the 'convoys as if-statements'-tactic proposed by the Ghostmaker in the puzzle thread. But such positions are so rare the tactic probabliy fits better in a cabinet of curiosities than in this article...
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RoganJosh
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Re: Advanced Maneuvers

#8 Post by RoganJosh » Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:08 am

Edit: Maybe 'advanced' level is to dislodge your ally's unit, so that your ally gets to choose retreat option after your enemy revealed their orders.
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teccles
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Re: Advanced Maneuvers

#9 Post by teccles » Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:58 am

RoganJosh wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:42 am
Very nice! I don't wanna mention names, but I know one player who recently lost two 1v1 games who might wanna have a look at the 'Beleagured Garrison Exploit.'
Well, now I feel silly. I should not have missed that!
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Deinodon
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Re: Advanced Maneuvers

#10 Post by Deinodon » Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:54 pm

On WebDiplomacy, when you say, “I’m no VillageIdiot but...” It has a completely different meaning than people might expect.
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Re: Advanced Maneuvers

#11 Post by VillageIdiot » Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:14 pm

Mercy wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:11 am
Good article, as usual, and nice seeing guest posts.
VillageIdiot wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:55 am
If anybody has any additional fringe maneuvers to add that i've overlooked, i'd absolutely love to hear about them. Would make my day to hear about a new tactic!
I think the 'defend by moving' tactic could have been added to part 2, about complex defensive tactics. I assume you already know the tactic but I think it would have been a good fit to the article.

Here is how it goes: Suppose you are France and you have an army in Paris and Marseilles. Germany has armies in Burgundy and Piedmond. You have no units adjacent to Marseilles or Piedmond. Because you cannot support hold Marseilles or cut support from Piedmond, if Germany is thinking simplistically, he will likely think he can guarantee Marseilles by moving Burgundy to Marseilles with support of Piedmond. However, you can counter by moving Marseilles to Burgundy with support of Paris, which will result in a standoff.
Yes, this is absolute a great one that i'm surprised i missed. I've used this many times! Thanks for mentioning.
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