The N Word

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dargorygel
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Re: The N Word

#41 Post by dargorygel » Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:45 am

He has been silenced.
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Re: The N Word

#42 Post by brainbomb » Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:49 am

Justice, hath been gotten
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Re: The N Word

#43 Post by dargorygel » Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:50 am

And other than the name calling, yoyo, I agree.

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Re: The N Word

#44 Post by MajorMitchell » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:10 am

I'm reasonably impressed with the standard of discussion in this thread. Most, but not all contributors have expressed themselves with careful use of language. As a topic, it's most risky, so I commend those who have made worthwhile contributions.
The n word, as we are describing it found usage in Australia as a demeaning description of our indigineous people, the Aborigines, on with a number of other abhorrent abusive words, which I will not list.
The overwhelming majority of Australians now recognise that using such words to abuse and insult is unnaceptable.
I've been on the receiving end of the insult "Whitey C**t" many times from Aboriginals & have responded to that, not by claiming a reciprocal right to use abusive terms to describe them, but by putting to them that they have used a racially offensive form of language and from doing so lose respect and goodwill. Fortunately I can also employ reminders of the actions of my maternal grandmother's family & other family members & myself to unequivocally demonstrate our commitment to fighting racism in Australia over several generations. The most singular example being the prosecution on multiple assault charges of a white overseer on a cattle station for his repeated use of a whip on Aboriginal stockmen in the Kings Canyon region ( sort of near Alice Springs, in an Australian context of distances​ ) at a time when Police were most reluctant to even consider such a prosecution, the first decades of the 1900's.
The prosecution failed, an "all white" jury defied evidence presented and found the blighter not guilty. However it caused such controversy that the blighter was immediately dismissed from his employment and the imfamy that attached to him meant he was literally driven out of the cattle industry.
I cannot adequately describe the pleasure and pride I felt when in the 1980's my forebears' name and actions were still remembered by elderly Aboriginal women in the King's Canyon region.

Returning to the n word discussion. I'm a big fan of that controversial American comic Lenny Bruce. He had several monologue routines that tackled racism. Including a famous "Ni**ers in the audience​" routine that is both hilarious and sobering, plus "How to relax coloured people at parties"
Comediens have a concept called "legitimacy of ownership", and biting, satirical comedy is a proven way to attack abhorrent ideologies and discrimination.
So the question I would pose is this, would performances​ of Lenny Bruce's "Ni**ers in the Audience" or "How to relax coloured people at parties" routines be acceptable today ? Would comediens of any race & gender be allowed to perform them ? Lenny was of Jewish / American race. Or do only Afro~American comediens have the "legitimacy" to perform them ?

I can only imagine what Lenny Bruce would make of Donald Trump, and what material he might produce that satarised Trump.

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Re: The N Word

#45 Post by Octavious » Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:10 pm

phil_a_s wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:34 pm
A black person using the word is defying white supremacy, by taking its tools away.
How, exactly? In what sense are the tools taken away? If a white supremacist in a position of power calls a black person a nigger how has previous examples of the black person calling his friends nigga in a jovial manner made that have any less impact?

Let's be honest, here. Most people who use the word don't do it as part of a political stand. They do it because it's a word their friends/family use and it's a word they're used to using. We should also be very cautious of saying that the word is being reclaimed by the black community. A great many black people loathe the word being directed at someone regardless of who's saying it, and are profoundly distressed by its use in rap, films, and by other blacks in the street. There have been plenty of high profile calls by black people to stop using the word, and that opinion is echoed by a great number of the general population.
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Re: The N Word

#46 Post by phil_a_s » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:37 pm

I gave a reason for why the word is not the same when used by a white person as it is when used by a black person. I also gave a reason for why it should not be used by white people, and it is a reason that doesn't generally apply to black people. I gave a possible frame of reference for how the word is used by black people, but it is not essential to my argument.
You will need to give your own reason for it being wrong for black people to use the word. Personally, I have little interest in finding or assessing arguments about whether black people should or should not use the word. It is none of my business, because I am white. From what I gather, you are white as well, so it is none of your business either, but have fun I guess. Just don't go around lecturing black people on whether they should use the word. Your opinion on this does not matter.

Most people who participated in lynch mobs probably didn't do it as part of a "political stand". They did it because their friends/family participated in lynch mobs.
Everyone in the US (and on the anglophone internet probably) knows by now that white people are not supposed to use that word, because it's racist. If you do so anyway, you are necessarily doing it as a political stand.
If you're used to using the word, and you are white, stop using the word. It turns out there are no non-racist sentiments that cannot be expressed easily without using it. You might slip up, like, once or twice, but it's really quite easy on the whole. Whenever you would say it, instead, don't. That's all it takes.
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Re: The N Word

#47 Post by Octavious » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:13 pm

@ phil

I did so earlier, phil. And as the use of the word is rather important to race relations, and considering the condition of race relations in the US right now, I think it's very much the business of all society.
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Re: The N Word

#48 Post by leon1122 » Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:25 pm

Yoyoyozo wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:01 am
Croak has already been silenced for calling another member a racially derogatory term.

People please follow common sense. I’m not even going to cite the rule he broke.
Just so we’re clear, would it be okay to use the word if we’re not referring to another member of this site?

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Re: The N Word

#49 Post by Jamiet99uk » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:41 pm

Yes I'm sure that needs to be clarified. I'm so confused about why Croak was silenced. Not.

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Re: The N Word

#50 Post by ssorenn » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:48 pm

My question is why would the mods allow this thread to start. Everyone knows it won’t lead to a good place for all.
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Re: The N Word

#51 Post by Jamiet99uk » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:29 pm

ssorenn wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:48 pm
My question is why would the mods allow this thread to start. Everyone knows it won’t lead to a good place for all.
Uhhhhhhh... the creation of threads is not pre-moderated...?

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Re: The N Word

#52 Post by ssorenn » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:57 pm

But as soon as they hit the site they are. Annnnnd, therefore why did it still exist?

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Re: The N Word

#53 Post by Jamiet99uk » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:11 pm

ssorenn wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:57 pm
But as soon as they hit the site they are. Annnnnd, therefore why did it still exist?
Because the Mods don't patrol the forum 24 hours a day, you prick.

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Re: The N Word

#54 Post by ssorenn » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:38 am

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:11 pm
ssorenn wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:57 pm
But as soon as they hit the site they are. Annnnnd, therefore why did it still exist?
Because the Mods don't patrol the forum 24 hours a day, you prick.
Will the mods please silence this guy. I believe Zultar should get involved as there was an agreement from a few years ago about this.
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Re: The N Word

#55 Post by Incrementalist » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:44 am

It's a brave form of moderation that allows things to head in a bad direction until they actually arrive in a bad place.
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Re: The N Word

#56 Post by ssorenn » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:03 am

Incrementalist wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:44 am
It's a brave form of moderation that allows things to head in a bad direction until they actually arrive in a bad place.
Brave,stupid , idiotic ,worthless——-they all fit

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Re: The N Word

#57 Post by MajorMitchell » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:01 am

Maybe the Almighty Mods have allowed this thread to run to see if we can behave like reasonable adults ?
I disagree with C&D's assertion that offence is not given but taken. I would suggest that offence can be given ( and then might be taken or not taken by differing individuals ) and that offence can be incorrectly taken when it was not given.

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Re: The N Word

#58 Post by Jamiet99uk » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:08 am

ssorenn wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:38 am
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:11 pm
ssorenn wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:57 pm
But as soon as they hit the site they are. Annnnnd, therefore why did it still exist?
Because the Mods don't patrol the forum 24 hours a day, you prick.
Will the mods please silence this guy. I believe Zultar should get involved as there was an agreement from a few years ago about this.
Hahaha don't be such a sensitive snowflake.

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Re: The N Word

#59 Post by Octavious » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:13 am

MajorMitchell wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:01 am
Maybe the Almighty Mods have allowed this thread to run to see if we can behave like reasonable adults ?
I disagree with C&D's assertion that offence is not given but taken. I would suggest that offence can be given ( and then might be taken or not taken by differing individuals ) and that offence can be incorrectly taken when it was not given.
When you speak you can try to offend someone or not. When you listen you can take offense or not. Depending on who you are you can be offended by an awful lot of things or very little. The important point is that being offended isn't particularly important. It would be an extremely dull life if you lived it without encountering anything that offended you, and you'd be an extremely dull person if you never said anything that could offend someone.
Last edited by Octavious on Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The N Word

#60 Post by Octavious » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:14 am

The moderation of this thread has been pretty good, I'd say.
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