Trade War _good_

Any political discussion should go here. This subforum will be moderated differently than other forums.
Forum rules
1.) No personal threats.
2.) No doxxing/revealing personal information.
3.) No spam.
4.) No circumventing press restrictions.
5.) No racism, sexism, homophobia, or derogatory posts.
Message
Author
ssorenn
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:51 pm
Karma: 109
Contact:

Re: Trade War _good_

#61 Post by ssorenn » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:37 am

Great randomized. You made $20,000 in 30 years in your 401k. Haha

Fund managers are there to beat market returns and risk beta. Passive investing has our earned money managers and hedge funds for the last decade. Seems you know so little for someone who thinks they know a lot.

@kingdroid, I’m not a trump guy, but I’m anti-piece if shit PC liberals who whine like bitches. I’m anti-socialist. And the hypocritical left.

Kingdroid
Posts: 219
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:01 pm
Karma: 86
Contact:

Re: Trade War _good_

#62 Post by Kingdroid » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:58 am

ssorenn wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:37 am
Great randomized. You made $20,000 in 30 years in your 401k. Haha

Fund managers are there to beat market returns and risk beta. Passive investing has our earned money managers and hedge funds for the last decade. Seems you know so little for someone who thinks they know a lot.

@kingdroid, I’m not a trump guy, but I’m anti-piece if shit PC liberals who whine like bitches. I’m anti-socialist. And the hypocritical left.
so... you're a trump guy?

ssorenn
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:51 pm
Karma: 109
Contact:

Re: Trade War _good_

#63 Post by ssorenn » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:41 am

Nope. He’s by far a better choice than hiltard. That’s easy.

Randomizer
Posts: 750
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:04 am
Karma: 225
Contact:

Re: Trade War _good_

#64 Post by Randomizer » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:37 pm

ssorenn wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:37 am
Great randomized. You made $20,000 in 30 years in your 401k. Haha

Fund managers are there to beat market returns and risk beta. Passive investing has our earned money managers and hedge funds for the last decade. Seems you know so little for someone who thinks they know a lot.

@kingdroid, I’m not a trump guy, but I’m anti-piece if shit PC liberals who whine like bitches. I’m anti-socialist. And the hypocritical left.
I made more than that in my worst year and divide by hours spent to earn that I make more per hour than almost everyone here. My retirement fund has done worse than my active investing, but I don't have much in it and doubt that Trump will not change the tax code to make it have less value.

Most fund managers fail to even equal the market or the bench mark for their fund's investment style. That's a repeated fact which is used to justify just buying index funds.

Earning money for fund companies and their managers isn't the same as earning money for the investors that put their money into funds. If you compare index fund returns with the index being represented, then you see most earn less. The Wall Street Journal has the numbers in their annual fund review issue and some quarterly issues to show that not all funds deliver.

ssorenn
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:51 pm
Karma: 109
Contact:

Re: Trade War _good_

#65 Post by ssorenn » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:48 pm

Fun fact
Fund managers have out preformed the bench mark for ~3 years or so. There are a significant percentage that don’t because they either run long/short or just short funds.
So you are a passive investor randomizer? It’s really not hard to make money that way. Especially for the last decade. So i fail to see how this gives you any more credibility to markets, than just being a relatively average investor. Who’s done some studying. I always like to hear when people win. People in general should take responsibility for themselves and their assets. Good for you to not be a burden to social programs.

ssorenn
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:51 pm
Karma: 109
Contact:

Re: Trade War _good_

#66 Post by ssorenn » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:59 pm

@Randomizer.
If you really take your finances seriously and have the desire for market action, you should learn about options trading

Randomizer
Posts: 750
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:04 am
Karma: 225
Contact:

Re: Trade War _good_

#67 Post by Randomizer » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:46 pm

Option trading has two drawbacks:

You sell options against stocks you own and can lose them if they have a huge price increase that makes the option worth exercising. Whereas if the stock isn't that good, then it's hard to sell options that are really profitable.

You buy options and they expire as worthless. This happens quite often because even when you are right on the direction you can keep losing over the timing. Martin Zwieg still mourns over the 1987 crash where he didn't believe his models and missed out on buying enough options because the only way they would pay off was the market falling like it did.

I'm still trying to remember the economist I read in the 1980s who pointed out from his own stock trades these types of problems. Being right and being able to profit requires lots of money that you don't need for years to survive when it takes longer than expected for it to happen. He did day trading back before it had a name for a client when he was a stock broker using a successful model for IBM stock until his client died. He couldn't afford to do it himself.

Beating a benchmark for 3 to 5 years is easy since that doesn't cover a full market cycle. You don't know if they can deal with a down turn and minimize losses. It also doesn't tell you if the fund will keep doing well if it gets too large.

Peter Lynch had a great record running Fidelity's Magellan fund, but most of the gains came it the early years when it was small and unknown whereas after it got over a billion dollars in assets he had an extremely hard time finding things to buy that could produce the same percentage gains. He started buying market sectors to be able get results.

Passive investing in funds is great for some sectors like small capitalization where finding the better ones out of 1000s of companies isn't practical. However I still do better with actively researching about 20 stocks where I can monitor them.

ssorenn
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:51 pm
Karma: 109
Contact:

Re: Trade War _good_

#68 Post by ssorenn » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:33 pm

You have any extremely limited knowledge of options

Randomizer
Posts: 750
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:04 am
Karma: 225
Contact:

Re: Trade War _good_

#69 Post by Randomizer » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:40 pm

I have a much greater knowledge of options, but didn't go into naked options and other types where if they go wrong you can lose more because you don't have the stock and need to buy it after it's already gone up past the option call price.

The safest is selling short term calls against a stock you own since all you lose is future gains if it goes up and you can make a profit if it never reaches the call price. However with the current volatile market it's easy to have a swing that pushes through the call price and go back a few hours later. Now back in the 1990s when it was recommended the market stayed flat for months.

The best advantage to options is that you don't need as much money to invest in some types.

ssorenn
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:51 pm
Karma: 109
Contact:

Re: Trade War _good_

#70 Post by ssorenn » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:03 pm

Again. Limited knowledge. It’s ok to admit it.

Incrementalist
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:06 am
Karma: 80
Contact:

Re: Trade War _good_

#71 Post by Incrementalist » Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:11 am

Randomizer wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:40 pm
The safest is selling short term calls ...
Selling options when it's your own money at stake is crazy. That's something you do when you're betting other people's money and need to show steady modest profits to collect a bonus (until your trades eventually blow up, but you can collect some nice bonuses until then.)
Last edited by Incrementalist on Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

Incrementalist
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:06 am
Karma: 80
Contact:

Re: Trade War _good_

#72 Post by Incrementalist » Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:15 am

.

ssorenn
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:51 pm
Karma: 109
Contact:

Re: Trade War _good_

#73 Post by ssorenn » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:46 am

To randomizers credit, selling calls while owning the underlying stock is a safe way to take in premium. It’s a hedge. Outside of that, he has limited knowledge

Incrementalist
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:06 am
Karma: 80
Contact:

Re: Trade War _good_

#74 Post by Incrementalist » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:16 am

Actually I semi-regret the level of sarcasm in my previous post - not everyone selling options is trading irresponsibly. But it still seems nuts for an individual to be doing - unless you're already rich, making a relatively safe premium on whatever money you haven't spent by actively writing options... doesn't seem worth the risk/reward/effort tradeoff.

ssorenn
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:51 pm
Karma: 109
Contact:

Re: Trade War _good_

#75 Post by ssorenn » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:46 am

Everyone has a different tolerance for risk.

CommanderByron
Silver Donator
Silver Donator
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:56 pm
Location: On an Island. In an Ocean. Surrounded by Water.
Karma: 165
Contact:

Re: Trade War _good_

#76 Post by CommanderByron » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:38 am

No.

ssorenn
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:51 pm
Karma: 109
Contact:

Re: Trade War _good_

#77 Post by ssorenn » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:56 am

CommanderByron wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:38 am
No.
Fool

CommanderByron
Silver Donator
Silver Donator
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:56 pm
Location: On an Island. In an Ocean. Surrounded by Water.
Karma: 165
Contact:

Re: Trade War _good_

#78 Post by CommanderByron » Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:18 am

ssorenn wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:56 am
CommanderByron wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:38 am
No.
Fool
Yes.

ssorenn
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:51 pm
Karma: 109
Contact:

Re: Trade War _good_

#79 Post by ssorenn » Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:20 am

CommanderByron wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:18 am
ssorenn wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:56 am
CommanderByron wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:38 am
No.
Fool
Yes.
Well, at least you know yourself. Kudos

ksako8
Posts: 103
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:26 am
Karma: 35
Contact:

Re: Trade War _good_

#80 Post by ksako8 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:54 am

Trump apparently tried to convince France to leave the EU.
He has no understanding of the French president nor the people that elected him.
How would the US feel if European ppilitixians would try to convince California to leave the US?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 86 guests