It started with a kiss...

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Octavious
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It started with a kiss...

#1 Post by Octavious » Wed May 02, 2018 3:45 pm

Just when you thought the left wing couldn't become even more a bastion of inhumane misery, they prove you wrong. Today it comes via The Guardian's advice column.

In response to one of their younger reader's somewhat painful question about whether you have to ask permission to kiss a girl when out on a date, they answer thus:

"if you kiss a person who doesn’t want to be kissed, that’s sexual assault"

Yup. If you kiss a girl (or a boy for that matter) when you're on a date that could be sexual assault. Which I know makes me guilty of risking sexual assault on several occasions, and I'm pretty sure does of most of the men here. Good God, have these people never experienced life? Are they human? As much as anything else, how dare they trivialize Sexual Assault by including something so harmless as part of it.

Will be interested in your thoughts, and whether there are people here who actually agree with this position...

Full article here
Dating after #MeToo: should I ask my date if I can kiss her?

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... n-kiss-her?

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Re: It started with a kiss...

#2 Post by StevenC. » Wed May 02, 2018 4:09 pm

While I agree that The Guardian are the literal spawn of Satan, I have to say that, considering the times we live in, I think it's better to ask for permission to kiss especially if it's the first date/kiss just to be safe.

However, if the mood is obviously right for it and he/she is giving clear signs of it, I don't think verbal consent is always necessary.

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Re: It started with a kiss...

#3 Post by Octavious » Wed May 02, 2018 4:53 pm

I couldn't disagree more. Take Mrs Oct, for example. I kissed her on the first date, I did not ask for permission by way of anything other than reading the signs, and it all went swimmingly. Furthermore, I know full well that if I had asked for permission she would have said no, because saying no is her natural reaction to pretty much anything she hasn't had a good long think about before hand. The moment would have been lost, and who knows how life would have turned out.

Mrs Oct's view on the matter is that asking for permission for a kiss is ridiculous, in case you were wondering. She gets rather more angry about these things than I do :P

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Re: It started with a kiss...

#4 Post by StevenC. » Wed May 02, 2018 6:37 pm

Octavious wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 4:53 pm
I couldn't disagree more. Take Mrs Oct, for example. I kissed her on the first date, I did not ask for permission by way of anything other than reading the signs, and it all went swimmingly. Furthermore, I know full well that if I had asked for permission she would have said no, because saying no is her natural reaction to pretty much anything she hasn't had a good long think about before hand. The moment would have been lost, and who knows how life would have turned out.

Mrs Oct's view on the matter is that asking for permission for a kiss is ridiculous, in case you were wondering. She gets rather more angry about these things than I do :P

I was more talking about first dates there. I should have been more clear lol.

But yeah, it's ridiculous to keep asking for permission to kiss over and over again.

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Re: It started with a kiss...

#5 Post by StevenC. » Wed May 02, 2018 6:42 pm

And just to clarify further, I don't think it's sexual harrassment to just go for a kiss on a first date or whatever unless you keep pressing for one against their wishes.

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Re: It started with a kiss...

#6 Post by Octavious » Wed May 02, 2018 9:48 pm

I was talking about first dates too. I don't think even The Guardian would insist on asking permission for a kiss every time :p

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Re: It started with a kiss...

#7 Post by Jamiet99uk » Wed May 02, 2018 10:18 pm

Octavious's hysterics over this are funny.
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Re: It started with a kiss...

#8 Post by Kingdroid » Thu May 03, 2018 12:37 am

Truly the lefties are destroying the very fabric of western society...

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Re: It started with a kiss...

#9 Post by Octavious » Thu May 03, 2018 1:50 pm

Jamie, I know you don't have a romantic bone in your body, but even you have to see how grim this is? God knows that dating is hard enough without bringing nonsense like this into it. And aren't you at least somewhat distressed by including a first date kiss into the definition of sexual assault? That in itself is appalling.
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Re: It started with a kiss...

#10 Post by Tom Bombadil » Thu May 03, 2018 2:59 pm

I do think this is pretty stupid and insulting to people who are actual victims of sexual assault. Like unless you go in for a kiss at 100 miles an hour you leave plenty of time for it to be rejected without having to ask for permission first. Like someone could actually read the situation wrong and go in for an unwanted kiss - that’s not sexual assault. And so long as they drop the matter when it is clear that it is not wanted it is not an issue. This is silly

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Re: It started with a kiss...

#11 Post by brainbomb » Thu May 03, 2018 4:45 pm

How did it end up like this?
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Re: It started with a kiss...

#12 Post by jengamaster » Thu May 03, 2018 6:56 pm

I am trying to remember with my first kisses if there ever was a question regarding whether it was wanted or not. I cannot recall that taking place. I wholeheartedly agree that if someone is sending appropriate nonverbal cues verbalizing it sounds a bit ridiculous. And perhaps a bit of a mood killer.

That being said, kissing someone who does not want to be kissed is a form of sexual assault. Sexual assault covers a wide spectrum of things. While I appreciate that we may risk trivializing sexual assault to a percentage of the population by including so much under its umbrella, unwanted content of a sexual nature without consent is sexual assault. It just is. And I do not know how to resolve that issue.

On the less ridiculous side of things, I do not believe that, in the US at least, anyone will face any real legal jeopardy by leaning in for a kiss on the first date no matter how unwelcome it is.

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Re: It started with a kiss...

#13 Post by MajorMitchell » Fri May 04, 2018 5:09 am

Pre~marital kissing ? I'm not sure that the Fire Breathing MemSahib would approve.
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Re: It started with a kiss...

#14 Post by Octavious » Fri May 04, 2018 10:50 am

Changing the subject entirely, has anyone else noticed that politics threads aren't appearing on the homepage anymore? Is this a new site policy, or have I pressed the wrong button?

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Re: It started with a kiss...

#15 Post by StevenC. » Fri May 04, 2018 1:52 pm

Octavious wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 10:50 am
Changing the subject entirely, has anyone else noticed that politics threads aren't appearing on the homepage anymore? Is this a new site policy, or have I pressed the wrong button?

No I still see it on the homepage.

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Re: It started with a kiss...

#16 Post by Telamor » Sun May 06, 2018 11:27 am

I think Oct you're getting a bit reactionary here. Society and gender relations are changing and part of that change is a move towards greater equality in relationships which means a move away from women as a passive party. Does this article imply you always need to ask? Of course not. In most scenarios it's pretty clear if they're into you or not but if it isn't there's no harm in asking a question or making a statement to gauge the mood. I really don't see where the source of outrage lies here.

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Re: It started with a kiss...

#17 Post by flash2015 » Sun May 06, 2018 6:22 pm

I guess it depends, doesn't it? If you move in slowly giving the person time to react, then that is OK. If you reach out and hold their head in a vice-like grip whilst you move in for a kiss it is probably not OK. :P

I don't know why there are only two possible options - something is either "left" or it is "right". Why can't we discuss any issue on its specific merits anymore???

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Re: It started with a kiss...

#18 Post by Randomizer » Sun May 06, 2018 7:26 pm

While at the time I didn't think it was sexual assault back in 1974, my first kiss was in 8th grade elementary school while I was reading, a girl was dared by another to kiss me. I hadn't expressed any interest or sent any positive signals as I hadn't even been paying attention to them at the time. So there was no consent, but calling it assault would be a bit much.

However requiring consent before every act on a date is a bit much and how do you prove without recording it that you had consent? Are you going to record video to your smart phone the entire time and then save it for years? If you are underage and go all the way, are you now going to get arrested for child pornography?

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