Syrian Gas Attack: I'm Losing My Mind

[CroakandDagger]

They are a significant minority in many major cities, and brag openly about being able to swing elections in key seats.

[CroakandDagger]

As for your question of why the western-backed terrorists- excuse me, rebels would gas their own families, I'm sorry to have to inform you that not all syrians are related. There are in fact multiple factions in Syria, and using civilians as human shields for chemical manufacturing facilities is a tried and tested tactic of theirs which would explain why a Syrian attack with conventional munitions would result in the release of harmful gases even after the Syrian government surrendered their chemical weapon caches.

[RAGINGWOMBLE]

They are a significant minority in many major cities, and brag openly about being able to swing elections in key seats.

True. This doesn't mean they swing social attitudes to any considerable extent. What laws have been passed because of Muslim attitudes to homosexuality? Or women's rights?

In fact, many have been passed which contravene conservative Muslim attitudes, i.e. gay marriage, anti-FGM legislation.

Please can you show one piece of legislation which has been passed because of a supposed Islamisation of Britain?

[RAGINGWOMBLE]

As for your question of why the western-backed terrorists- excuse me, rebels would gas their own families, I'm sorry to have to inform you that not all syrians are related. There are in fact multiple factions in Syria, and using civilians as human shields for chemical manufacturing facilities is a tried and tested tactic of theirs which would explain why a Syrian attack with conventional munitions would result in the release of harmful gases even after the Syrian government surrendered their chemical weapon caches.

Except this would contradict what both the Russian and Syrian government is claiming. They aren't claiming it is an accidental spill, instead that the rebels deliberately fired chemical weapons on themselves.

Please answer the question though, why haven't this specific faction, Jaysh al-Islam, used chemical weapons which they supposedly possess, against the government?

I know perfectly well there are different factions in Syria. It seems you do not, instead dismissing them all as "Western backed terrorists".

[CroakandDagger]

I've certainly never heard of anything like a suicide bombing.

And i'm absolutely sure nobody who follows the religion of peace, Islam, would ever consider such a radical measure.

[RAGINGWOMBLE]

I've certainly never heard of anything like a suicide bombing.

And i'm absolutely sure nobody who follows the religion of peace, Islam, would ever consider such a radical measure.

Suicide is expressly forbidden in Islam, and the only exceptions are made when you are fighting the enemy and taking them down with you. These highly religious people wouldn't commit suicide in such a manner.

[Tom Bombadil]

RAGINGWOMBLE: Don’t waste your breath. Croak has shown before his islamophobia. You are wasting your time

[CroakandDagger]

I'm familiar with the concept of Martyrdom, yes.

And if you detonated chemical containers in your own facilities in order to mislead the largely ignorant West and trigger an intervention against the people winning their war against you, that certainly would be a case of "Taking your enemy down with you," wouldn't you say?

Side note: I am not Islamophobic.

[leon1122]

Except this would contradict what both the Russian and Syrian government is claiming. They aren't claiming it is an accidental spill, instead that the rebels deliberately fired chemical weapons on themselves.

Please answer the question though, why haven't this specific faction, Jaysh al-Islam, used chemical weapons which they supposedly possess, against the government?

Are you dense? It's clear to everyone involved that the Syrian rebels aren't going to win by themselves. Do you question this premise? They need international sympathy and military aid to defeat Assad. No amount of chemical weapons they possess is capable of defeating Assad at this point, so as a last resort they are staging chemical attacks against themselves to garner the aforementioned sympathy. By our governments' reactions, it's clear that this was the best use of their chemical weapon supply. If, on the other hand, the rebels had used the chemical weapons on Assad, that would have forced our governments to end aid to the rebels.

As for the bit about suicide, they clearly are using their suicide to fight against the enemy, so it is in line with Islamic teaching.

[JamesYanik]

@Octavius

well, with regard to evidence we had clear evidence of a genocide by Saddam Hussein on the Kurds and did nothing, and we had no evidence of long range missiles and nukes by him and we went to war.

but no, if we are going to war, or putting boots on the ground, I want some goddamn evidence thank you very much. missile strikes are another deal but when you have Mattis saying "nothing is off the table" and with a temper like Trump's... I'm not supposing to know what's going to happen next.


@Ogion thanks for the link

it says the Hip helicopters were used, which is a Russian created model... they don't point fingers in their conclusion at who did it but I suppose this could be just as easily Assad trying to kill rebels and look strong, as it could be Russia looking to worm their way into the Middle East, by making Assad look so evil, and if they invade then they can claim the moral high ground.

as for the rebels not having helicopters, or not having air support for them... I actually have read a bit about that and while for an isolated case I guess they could do it, repeated chemical attacks with helicopters kind of support the force that has air support.




HOWEVER, there are two points more that I want fleshing out, one is an observation, one is a question

observation: if the Obama regime had given weapons and lots of funding to Syrian rebels, only to find out they were using the money to encourage more western support by using sympathy attacks on their own people (as HAMAS has been known to do), it would make sense they would want to keep that under wraps
but, this starts to unravel now since we're into the trump administration... so this theory seems more or less debunked.

question:
THIS IS DIRECTED TO *ASSAD 'DIDN'T DO IT' CAMP*

what evidence do you have that the rebels do it, beyond speculation about motives? because there ARE motives for each side, Assad wanting to look strong, scare rebels into submissions, and secure his place in the Middle East VS rebels wanting more support and funding, and Assad out of power.


Ogion has provided links, and the simple fact that there have been multiple attacks by helicopters... well how are the rebels doing this when air control is all against them?

[JamesYanik]

let me edit that, we had evidence of him committing genocide, using chemical weapons, harboring and funding terrorism, and repetitive aggression against neighboring states...

and we didn't remove him from power.

because why care about international law? we're only the international community

[Incrementalist]

Apologies if I missed it in the thread, but separate from attribution, how solid is the evidence that a gas attack occurred at all?

[JamesYanik]

multiple victims, multiple eyewitness reports, even rebels and Assad admit it happened, they just blame other people, videos online

I mean if both Assad and the rebels say it happened, but blame different people, at the least I'm believing it happened

[JECE]

JamesYanik: If you think that you're confused now, just wait until you read this:
https://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour-m ... e-rat-line

[JamesYanik]

JamesYanik: If you think that you're confused now, just wait until you read this:
https://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour-m ... e-rat-line

reading that (fairly lackluster on sources, but so are the replies), and reading the replies... this confirms that I was correct all along


I don't have a clue what's going on here

[leon1122]

It's fairly simple, really. We, as ordinary citizens, have no way of knowing who conducted an attack with what substance in a foreign country thousands of miles away. We don't have the raw information, gas canister, or any such thing in our hands. We only know what the media-government complex wants us to know. Also, where did you hear about the Syrian government admitting that there was a chemical attack? I've read multiple news outlets claiming that Syria and Russia deny the occurrence of a chemical attack.

[leon1122]

I'd also like to ask in regards to this particular quote: "it would make sense they would want to keep that under wraps
but, this starts to unravel now since we're into the trump administration... so this theory seems more or less debunked."

How do we know that Trump hasn't already been swallowed by the deep state A few years ago, he was berating Obama for considering military action, yet now he condemns Obama for NOT declaring war.

[JamesYanik]

I'd also like to ask in regards to this particular quote: "it would make sense they would want to keep that under wraps
but, this starts to unravel now since we're into the trump administration... so this theory seems more or less debunked."

How do we know that Trump hasn't already been swallowed by the deep state A few years ago, he was berating Obama for considering military action, yet now he condemns Obama for NOT declaring war.

well it's more likely the CIA or NSA is a constant force in this situation, but the Trump regime I honestly don't think is intelligent enough to keep this under wraps.

I don't think Trump is intelligent enough to have this kept under leaks. And most of what would be going on would be in terms of intelligence agencies anyways

[JamesYanik]

also on Bellingcat directly claiming that Assad is responsible, he has said that it is *possible* that it's the rebels - after a lot of pushing from people like Professor Piers Robinson, the late Christopher Hitchens, and Tim Hayword

https://timhayward.wordpress.com/2017/0 ... r-revised/


meanwhile, I've also been looking into THIS

https://www.mintpressnews.com/remember- ... ey/219161/

american journalist, killed in suspicious car accident, the Turkish DIA even accused her of being a spy.

there are some stories which just REEK, and this is one of them

[leon1122]

I'd also like to ask in regards to this particular quote: "it would make sense they would want to keep that under wraps
but, this starts to unravel now since we're into the trump administration... so this theory seems more or less debunked."

How do we know that Trump hasn't already been swallowed by the deep state A few years ago, he was berating Obama for considering military action, yet now he condemns Obama for NOT declaring war.

well it's more likely the CIA or NSA is a constant force in this situation, but the Trump regime I honestly don't think is intelligent enough to keep this under wraps.

I don't think Trump is intelligent enough to have this kept under leaks. And most of what would be going on would be in terms of intelligence agencies anyways

It's almost certainly the CIA or NSA directly at work here. However, the fact that Trump is following along with their agenda rather than exposing it is highly bothersome given his previous stances, hence my statement that he's been swallowed by the deep state.