It's Okay To Be White

[CroakandDagger]

Yeah, except the last time an organization tried that, BLM went and tore it down. Fact of the matter is that black advocate groups don’t actually want a race blind application process because they know they can’t compete on an actually level playing field.

You can make as many excuses as you want, but equal results simply aren’t possible from equal opportunity. The underperformance of some races compared to others is not due to ‘systemic discrimination’ or anything of the sort.

As to leon1122's silence, i'm sure it's no surprise that I have to object quite strongly. At no point in the messages I have quoted above did they actually target any group of people with discriminatory statements.

He described (Accurately, I may add) the beliefs of black activists - in particular referencing the statements and actions of the violent thugs known as BLM - even citing a news article that laid out their beliefs clearly so that anyone reading this thread could go and read for themselves that these Black Activists do not want equal opportunities for all races: they want a privileged status for their group.

He went on to say that we live in a world where unequal results will come from an equal playing field, because everyone competing on that level field is possessed of different skill and talent levels. Some of these skills and talents may come from a race's inherent traits, but they are also likely to be informed by things like culture, religion, education, family life, etc. rather than the mythical phenomenon of "Systematic White Supremacist Discrimination."

However, in the interest of fairness I do at least feel that I have to give the moderation team credit for not banning him for these relatively mild statements.

EDIT: And for leaving them up to be observed and discussed. It's definitely a good step towards more transparency.

[CroakandDagger]

Isnt Leon asian?

Yup.
Asians are white I guess lol. Croak is gonna have a fit.

Honorary aryans tbh.

[ghug]

This is pretty simple. Leon was claiming that one race is inferior to others. It's something he's gotten in trouble for doing before, and it's something we won't tolerate here. If he wants to claim that there's an equal playing field, that's detestable and maliciously "naive", but he's within his rights to do so despite the implicit racism.

The mod team is majority liberal, but there's a diversity of political opinions, and we were in full agreement internally on this one, just as we were with Condescension. If any of you think this is about targeting people who think like you, you should either reconsider what he's actually saying here and whether you truly agree with it, or you should accept that you're a racist, and that we will target people who think like you, because webDip is a platform for diplomacy and not hate.

[President Eden]

This is pretty simple. Leon was claiming that one race is inferior to others. It's something he's gotten in trouble for doing before, and it's something we won't tolerate here. If he wants to claim that there's an equal playing field, that's detestable and maliciously "naive", but he's within his rights to do so despite the implicit racism.

The mod team is majority liberal, but there's a diversity of political opinions, and we were in full agreement internally on this one, just as we were with Condescension. If any of you think this is about targeting people who think like you, you should either reconsider what he's actually saying here and whether you truly agree with it, or you should accept that you're a racist, and that we will target people who think like you, because webDip is a platform for diplomacy and not hate.

No he wasn't. He made specific reference to the organization BLM not wanting a level playing field.

Y'all have lost the plot. Congrats on running a once-amazing forum community with diversity of political opinion and discourse into the dirt.

[Durga]

How are you going to do well in law school if you can't even read PE

[Jamiet99uk]

You can make as many excuses as you want, but equal results simply aren’t possible from equal opportunity. The underperformance of some races compared to others is not due to ‘systemic discrimination’ or anything of the sort.

I'm just quoting this here because apparently President Eden cannot read.

[President Eden]

OK, since you geniuses can read and I can't, tell me where in that post he says that some races are inferior to others.

I'll give you a hint, he doesn't, anywhere. leon does not propose a reason why different races have different life outcomes. He rejects the notion that it is due to systemic discrimination.

I thought the comment about BLM was closer to what ghug was saying, since leon does say that "they can't compete on an actually level playing field." This is why I brought up that he was specifically referring to BLM.

Perhaps before you cast stones you should make sure what you're saying is accurate.

[Octavious]

You can make as many excuses as you want, but equal results simply aren’t possible from equal opportunity. The underperformance of some races compared to others is not due to ‘systemic discrimination’ or anything of the sort.

I'm just quoting this here because apparently President Eden cannot read.

Is that enough for a silence these days? Fair enough in the forum proper, I guess, but I'm sure I was told on several occasions that the politics forum was designed to be light touch moderation more akin to the old days, in which views could be expressed freely regardless of whether you find them distasteful or offensive.

Am I to understand this idea has been quietly scrapped?

[Durga]

If you reject the notion that the "underperformance" of some races compared to others is due to "systemic discrimination or ANYTHING OF THE SORT" what conclusion does that leave you with? There's no discrimination and disadvantaged, so what is it? Especially combined with his first statement indicating that an equal playing field would change nothing. How do you read these two statements together other than to suggest that any fault is internal to the group?

[Durga]

Also the whole BLM thing is further proof he's implying that the reason black people have a disadvantage in society because they're just inherently inferior. Don't be stupid PE. It's also further evidenced by the fact that this is Leon who's saying this and he's been racist in the past.

[Jamiet99uk]

PE is just sticking up for his fellow froggos.

[President Eden]

Good question, Durga. Why don't we ask leon? I'm sure he has a nuanced explanation which would satisfy your concerns.

Ah, right. He's been silenced, because someone could read ill intent into his statement, and that is now apparently sufficient to be deprived of the ability to continue discussing things.

You are not dense enough not to see the concern here. leon, for better or worse, left the answer to that question open to interpretation.

I can think of at least one explanation that doesn't involve inherent "inferiority" (whatever this even means, complicated idea!): economic disadvantages which create an uneven playing field, but which aren't the result of systemic discrimination.

So already we actually have a perfectly reasonable explanation that doesn't involve some belief in racial inferiority or superiority, which you and the likeminded mod team members decided not to accept or even consider.

This is why the precedent is alarming: at least prior to this incident you were only punished for explicit posts supporting discrimination or the like. That is still noticeably inferior to no moderation at all, as the disparity in quality and frequency of political & philosophical discussion before and after the implementation of forum moderation demonstrates. But even if you don't accept that evaluation, at least the rules of engagement were clear.
Now leon has been punished because someone thought he was being racist by assuming his belief must be the result of racist beliefs, when nothing about his post demands it.

Since you're going to go low and imply that I'm insufficiently equipped to study law based off this conversation, I'll drag your own law school experience into this. I am certain that you're aware that simply asking "If not X, what could it be?" is insufficient proof that X happened. You have to demonstrate affirmatively either that X happened or demonstrate by elimination that not-X couldn't have happened. You and everyone else supporting leon's silence have failed to meet this standard.
Do you not see the issue in moderating with such a low bar to clear?

[President Eden]

Also the whole BLM thing is further proof he's implying that the reason black people have a disadvantage in society because they're just inherently inferior. Don't be stupid PE. It's also further evidenced by the fact that this is Leon who's saying this and he's been racist in the past.

No, idiot. BLM advocates for explicit racial quotas in job and schooling placement, because they say these things are needed for black people to have a level playing field. That is literal admission that without the help they couldn't compete. BLM is saying this. leon is correctly pointing out that they are saying this. Is BLM racist against black people or of the belief that blacks are inherently inferior?

[Tom Bombadil]

I heard the mods will unsilence leon once the government frees Meek Mill

[CroakandDagger]

Personally if we're to talk about BLM and the American situation I would sooner raise the issue of failing infrastructure that disproportionately disadvantages inner-city communities than race or racial discrimination.

According to the moderation team this makes me a racist.

[Mercy]

Can I ask some questions?

We know that top athletes are most often black, right? Suppose that I were to claim that this is not due to discrimination, but simply due to black people being able to run faster than white people on average, though there are of course plenty of white individuals that can run fast and plenty of black individuals that are quite slow. Would that statement make me a racist?

Now suppose that someone else were to claim that differences in socioeconomic status between groups are not (entirely) due to racism, but could (partially) be explained by differences in group averages. Regardless of whether that is true or not, would that make that other person racist?

I am not saying that anything of the like has actually been said; I am just curious to this hypothetical situation.

[ghug]

Eden, you know exactly what he was saying. Arguing semantics isn't really compelling here. This isn't the hill up make that stand on. I miss the good old days too, but the fact is that a lot of bad came with the good, and the forum actively dissuaded people from playing. If people need to be racist to have interesting political discussions, odds are they aren't actually that interesting.

Oct, the intent is indeed to be more lax here than we are on the rest of the forum, which is already the case. That doesn't mean the Politics forum will be completely unmoderated, however. We're working on codifying that so that everyone is clear. For now, when in doubt, follow the general forum rules.

[President Eden]

Eden, you know exactly what he was saying. Arguing semantics isn't really compelling here. This isn't the hill up make that stand on. I miss the good old days too, but the fact is that a lot of bad came with the good, and the forum actively dissuaded people from playing. If people need to be racist to have interesting political discussions, odds are they aren't actually that interesting.

Oct, the intent is indeed to be more lax here than we are on the rest of the forum, which is already the case. That doesn't mean the Politics forum will be completely unmoderated, however. We're working on codifying that so that everyone is clear. For now, when in doubt, follow the general forum rules.

No, I don't, and that's the part that's so troubling.

If Croak or I, self-admitted fascists, had said something like leon said, then that'd be one thing. We know we're in enemy territory and we have to play by the rules of the game. That's life.
leon is a run-of-the-mill conservative who harbors no beliefs about intrinsic advantages that some races have over others. Y'all for whatever reason want so badly for him to be just another big bad ebil Nazi and continually read the worst of intentions into very innocent posts. Y'all did it with ND and practically ran him off the forum and now leon is meeting the same fate.
Y'all are punishing normal individuals whose only fault is careless verbiage. It's complete garbage. You should be ashamed if you consider yourselves to support the free flow of ideas that's at the heart of liberalism.

[jmo1121109]

Eden I know you love to hear yourself talk but honestly you just look like a moron defending 2 racist posts made by someone warned against racism before. Just stop.

[Jamiet99uk]

President Eden is the new SYnapse.