It's Okay To Be White

[Kingdroid]

Disbelieving in systemic discrimination now constitutes discrimination and warrants a forum silence?

This website has utterly jumped the shark.

If that's how you read it, then I think you might be the one who jumped the shark.

[Stressedlines]

Isnt Leon asian?

[shigzeo]

As a white person to not acknowledge that you get even a marginal amount of preferential treatment in the world is just ignorant or at best oblivious.

I have literally seen how differently I am treated because the color of my skin compared to my black and brown brothers. I’ve seen my friends stopped by the cops for being suspicious only to have me walk up and ask one of my friends what’s up and have the cop decide because a white guy is present it’s all good.

I’ve had to report people to my company for exercising prejudice in hiring. I’ve seen a manager go through applications and remove all the ones he “couldn’t pronounce” before even reading their resumes or qualifications.

“Heather” “Anthony” “Tristen” and “Elizabeth” will NEVER experience culture prejudice because their name is “Huang” “Aniluze” “Tyrique” or “Eduardo”

I’ve watched people cross the street to avoid black men. Just because they are black. I’ve seen those same people cross back when they pass those black men.

I’ve seen how our judicial system favors the higher classes and whites and is built to keep minorities oppressed. The viscous cycle of crime, failed education systems, and violence that our “systems” exacerbate.

It’s not an OPINION that white people have privledge. It’s a fact.

Meh, I've got a mate that openly dismisses white people when hiring when candidates have similar or same credentials, all in the name of social justice. And gosh darn, if that pendulum thingy don't swing both ways, in every issue. You really need to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt the things you're saying - judicial system and more - as they are either verifiable when considering more than one angle, or they are not.

Extraordinary claims and all that. Interestingly, I live in Japan where there is Japanese privilege, or so they say. And that's okay with me.

[President Eden]

Disbelieving in systemic discrimination now constitutes discrimination and warrants a forum silence?

This website has utterly jumped the shark.

If that's how you read it, then I think you might be the one who jumped the shark.

bo said leon was silenced for his recent comments which constituted discrimination, which is against site rules.

leon's last post which apparently(?) triggered the silence may accurately and fairly be summarized as saying that "systemic discrimination is not responsible for different life outcomes among races."

That certainly leads me to believe that disbelief in systemic discrimination constitutes discrimination which warrants a forum silence.

If that's the case, then I think forum moderation has jumped the shark. I do not recall explicit ideologically-motivated moderation before now. Perhaps an argument could be made (and has in the past been made) that ideological bias has had an effect on how forum rules are applied, but that is a separate matter from explicit censorship of ideas on an ideological basis. Succumbing to bias is an entirely human occurrence and can very easily be remedied as a community through clear and honest dialogue, which this site's management historically has been very good at facilitating, and is not per se cause for concern. Explicitly using ideological bias as the basis of censoring posters is an altogether different matter; it's a deliberate act that as far as I'm aware does not have precedent in this site's historically very free-thinking environment. This is frankly a terrible development.

[CommanderByron]

Yeah, except the last time an organization tried that, BLM went and tore it down. Fact of the matter is that black advocate groups don’t actually want a race blind application process because they know they can’t compete on an actually level playing field.

This comment begun a line of discussion that implied that Persons of Color “[couldn’t compete]” with their white counterparts on a level playing field. This directly breaches site rules in that it targets a specific race in a bigoted way. For all intents and purposes, this decision and the teams decision in keeping the offending comments public show a general interest in working with the community and being as transparent as possible.

We appreciate the communities curiosity and interest in our processes and look forward to making ourselves more transparent in our decision making as we progress on the new forum.

In the meantime if you want to commit real change please direct your inquiries and concerns to our email where we can respond better and faster to your needs.

-webDiplomacy Moderator

[shigzeo]

Certainly _that_ Leon comment wasn’t the first discriminatory comment in this thread. It started on page one. Obviously the OP was meant to troll a certain group of people, which it did, but let’s be fair: if that comment is the one that’s drawn ire, let’s pick apart a few more, starting on the first page.

Any discussion of ethnicity in any context anywhere on the internet is bound to turn toxic.

[CommanderByron]

Certainly _that_ Leon comment wasn’t the first discriminatory comment in this thread. It started on page one. Obviously the OP was meant to troll a certain group of people, which it did, but let’s be fair: if that comment is the one that’s drawn ire, let’s pick apart a few more, starting on the first page.

Any discussion of ethnicity in any context anywhere on the internet is bound to turn toxic.

We absolutely agree, however we have yet to receive a complaint about any other comments from multiple users. If you would like to log an official complaint the moderator email is [email protected] ; we highly encourage users to bring to our attention comments they feel cross the line whenever they encounter them. We are a small team and we don’t always catch those comments either because of our own human error or simply because we missed it. Thanks for your understanding.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Bo_Sox: I don't disagree with your silencing of Leon, but I find it odd that you'd do that, but let equally discriminatory and racist comments from CroakandDagger and Tom Bombadil slide?

[shigzeo]

I think ththat reason you’ve not heard complaints is that one side complains a lot and the other does not. Or: one reports people for any and all infractions it _believes_ are inflammatory (which is everything), and the other side rolls with the punches. Weighing complaints against objective standards which apply equally to everyone rather than responding to general complaints is probably a good idea.

Because it can get pretty ugly when following the orders of the perpetually incensed.

[CommanderByron]

I think ththat reason you’ve not heard complaints is that one side complains a lot and the other does not. Or: one reports people for any and all infractions it _believes_ are inflammatory (which is everything), and the other side rolls with the punches. Weighing complaints against objective standards which apply equally to everyone rather than responding to general complaints is probably a good idea.

Because it can get pretty ugly when following the orders of the perpetually incensed.

Responding to complaints does NOT imply that the team blindly listens to the will of said complaints but drawing or attention to the potential defamatory speeech or a point of view we otherwise wouldn’t have considered is a good starting point. As a team we discuss every decision. Is that clear? You and anyone on this site are welcome to direct the moderators to comments you view as equally offensive and explain why. Just claiming something to be offensive does not automatically grant it a response. My best recommendation is going to be to let the moderation team know which comments YOU found offensive and why; doing so in a professional manner through the email will also earn you the benefit of the team taking your issue seriously rather than writing it off as a publicity stunt. I look forward to reading your email.

[Fluminator]

@Bo_Sox: I don't disagree with your silencing of Leon, but I find it odd that you'd do that, but let equally discriminatory and racist comments from CroakandDagger and Tom Bombadil slide?

Hey, as a Canadian with French relatives, Tom was asking a valid question. It's not racist to question things.

[shigzeo]

I don't find anything offensive. I live that way. I find certain ideas/words to be laughable, fraud, jolly, inflammatory, but offence is something I actively avoid becoming. If I become offended, the problem usually lies with me, not with the person or words at which I reacted.

I have no idea what other people believe about offence, but the term and the feeling are almost always the capital of identity-based groups or belief systems and their adherents, no matter their political or social orientation.

And they can and will get offended at the drop of a hat, both to the demise of their fastly watered-down ideology, and to society at large. Discussion works for me. When it doesn't, a simple: 'we'll have to disagree' works. If they react, it shows bad on them. If they don't we've ended something in good spirits.

Constant pushing up to the next higher authority fails to resolve any personal or interpersonal conflict and denotes childishness if not indolence. Naturally people should be civil - if they can - in forums, but it should be well obvious that the comment or the OP that got his uncareful words handed to him was not the instigator and certainly wasn't the first to utter what could be considered 'racist' or 'discriminatory' words.

But his was the one reported... likely by people that discrimination is okay- as long as it is from one angle.

[Ogion]

Disbelieving in systemic discrimination now constitutes discrimination and warrants a forum silence?

This website has utterly jumped the shark.

Why wouldn't it? How long do we have to put up with this kind of white supremacist propaganda in the name of protecting your delicate fee-fees?

Frankly, the evidence of systemic discrimination is so overwhelming that it's getting into the same bucket as holocaust denial and climate change denial. There's no way it is in good faith.

[Ogion]

I don't find anything offensive. I live that way. I find certain ideas/words to be laughable, fraud, jolly, inflammatory, but offence is something I actively avoid becoming. If I become offended, the problem usually lies with me, not with the person or words at which I reacted.

I have no idea what other people believe about offence, but the term and the feeling are almost always the capital of identity-based groups or belief systems and their adherents, no matter their political or social orientation.

And they can and will get offended at the drop of a hat, both to the demise of their fastly watered-down ideology, and to society at large. Discussion works for me. When it doesn't, a simple: 'we'll have to disagree' works. If they react, it shows bad on them. If they don't we've ended something in good spirits.

Constant pushing up to the next higher authority fails to resolve any personal or interpersonal conflict and denotes childishness if not indolence. Naturally people should be civil - if they can - in forums, but it should be well obvious that the comment or the OP that got his uncareful words handed to him was not the instigator and certainly wasn't the first to utter what could be considered 'racist' or 'discriminatory' words.

But his was the one reported... likely by people that discrimination is okay- as long as it is from one angle.

I'm guessing you haven't read Letter from a Birmingham Jail? This is classic white moderate stuff. "oh, be civil, your watering down the discourse!" is the cry of the person who is basically content to stand by and watch others be oppressed. And just how long, in your view, should it be allowed to continue? Should we maybe put your humanity or your civil rights up for a vote? Maybe we should have a civil discussion about whether you're a human being or just an animal, and while we're at it, we can keep discussing while you get shot or denied a job simply for being who you are. Oh, but don't get mad or complain because you'll water down your ideology!

Take that attitude and shove it. I'll gladly be civil and disagree when people are advocating or defending civil behavior, but I'm not going to waste time with people who are out to actively hurt others. Then I'm NOT going to be civil or polite in demanding justice. No one can rightly set the timetable for another man's freedom or constantly advise others to wait for a "more convenient season" and have that chalked up to civil disagreement.

[Tom Bombadil]

Then I'm NOT going to be civil or polite in demanding justice. No one can rightly set the timetable for another man's freedom or constantly advise others to wait for a "more convenient season" and have that chalked up to civil disagreement.

OGION DEMANDS JUSTICE

[shigzeo]

I don't find anything offensive. I live that way. I find certain ideas/words to be laughable, fraud, jolly, inflammatory, but offence is something I actively avoid becoming. If I become offended, the problem usually lies with me, not with the person or words at which I reacted.

I have no idea what other people believe about offence, but the term and the feeling are almost always the capital of identity-based groups or belief systems and their adherents, no matter their political or social orientation.

And they can and will get offended at the drop of a hat, both to the demise of their fastly watered-down ideology, and to society at large. Discussion works for me. When it doesn't, a simple: 'we'll have to disagree' works. If they react, it shows bad on them. If they don't we've ended something in good spirits.

Constant pushing up to the next higher authority fails to resolve any personal or interpersonal conflict and denotes childishness if not indolence. Naturally people should be civil - if they can - in forums, but it should be well obvious that the comment or the OP that got his uncareful words handed to him was not the instigator and certainly wasn't the first to utter what could be considered 'racist' or 'discriminatory' words.

But his was the one reported... likely by people that discrimination is okay- as long as it is from one angle.

I'm guessing you haven't read Letter from a Birmingham Jail? This is classic white moderate stuff. "oh, be civil, your watering down the discourse!" is the cry of the person who is basically content to stand by and watch others be oppressed. And just how long, in your view, should it be allowed to continue? Should we maybe put your humanity or your civil rights up for a vote? Maybe we should have a civil discussion about whether you're a human being or just an animal, and while we're at it, we can keep discussing while you get shot or denied a job simply for being who you are. Oh, but don't get mad or complain because you'll water down your ideology!

Take that attitude and shove it. I'll gladly be civil and disagree when people are advocating or defending civil behavior, but I'm not going to waste time with people who are out to actively hurt others. Then I'm NOT going to be civil or polite in demanding justice. No one can rightly set the timetable for another man's freedom or constantly advise others to wait for a "more convenient season" and have that chalked up to civil disagreement.

You're right, I have not read that work. And I don't understand what you're on about. I suppose you've not read, listened to, watched, or hang around with 'oppressed' minorities that don't think they're oppressed and have strong opinions on that matter, and that wish people would stop putting words, actions, and other things into their mouths, or assuming their status in the world.

Who in this thread is actively out to hurt another? If/when you find one, you have to PROVE it rather than assert it. I can assert that you're out to hurt someone or a group of people, and have ideological cohorts that agree. That doesn't mean that you are.

[Octavious]

I'm NOT going to be civil or polite in demanding justice. No one can rightly set the timetable for another man's freedom or constantly advise others to wait for a "more convenient season" and have that chalked up to civil disagreement.

I can't help but feel that this stance would be a tad more powerful if you were civil and polite generally .

[CroakandDagger]

One thing I'm confused about. Not trolling and genuinely interested in learning.
When does racism go from personal assholery, to systemic?

Racism becomes systemic when it is enshrined in law. At that point it can truly be described as being part of the system, implemented on a national scale with the authority of the state and its courts and prison system behind it.

Systematic pro-white racism has been eradicated in the West. It is illegal to discriminate against someone because of their race or sex.

Personally, I suspect that the drastic increase of hate crime reports is not indicative of racism or sexism being on the rise, but it does indicate more and more people being prosecuted on behalf of perceived-as-disavantaged minorities because of minor infractions being treated as more serious because of these groups possessing P-a-D "victim" status.

However, systematic anti-white racism is enshrined in law - even lauded by far left activists. "Affirmative Action" and "Proportional Representation" are policies that actively discriminate against white people because there are no mandated quotas for the perceived-as-superior "oppressors" (aka whites) - only for "BAME" groups.

Having racial discrimination not only encouraged by major political parties but codified in law in many Western nations is a choice that continues to baffle me, and one that I suspect has inflamed rather than calmed racial tensions - and if you take a frank and honest look at the world I think anyone would be hard pressed to contradict me.

[President Eden]

Disbelieving in systemic discrimination now constitutes discrimination and warrants a forum silence?

This website has utterly jumped the shark.

Why wouldn't it? How long do we have to put up with this kind of white supremacist propaganda in the name of protecting your delicate fee-fees?

Frankly, the evidence of systemic discrimination is so overwhelming that it's getting into the same bucket as holocaust denial and climate change denial. There's no way it is in good faith.

What the fuck do you know about arguing in good faith? Fuck outta here.

[President Eden]

Isnt Leon asian?

Yup.
Asians are white I guess lol. Croak is gonna have a fit.