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Nope, because my arguments tend to make sense

And yet, you claim the EU 'stole' something which they entirely didn't do. The US could ban the export of weapons to Iran, they wouldn't be stealing Iranian weapons.

You are either a lier or your arguments are based on a lack of sensible understanding of the world.

The equivalence is laughably false. It would be more akin to the US banning weapons exports to Canada after Canada had been threatened with an attack. A betrayal of a like minded close ally.

We will see from Australia's reaction whose understanding more closely matches reality. They should be waking up around now.

Yawn...the story has already been out a day in Australia. At least from what I read from comments, most people aren't terribly concerned because Europe needs it more right now. Again, apart from the odd outbreak, Australia has no COVID at the moment.

The local rag suggests the government isn't too concerned either:

On Today, Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton said the Italian blockade was “not going to affect the rollout.”

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/eur ... 577z3.html

Again "I really was really against Brexit" Octavious is trying way too hard to hate on Europe for the umpteenth time.

Really? ABC, who can be relied upon for sober coverage, reported that article as follows:

"News of the blockage of a shipment of 250,000 COVID-19 vaccines from Europe to Australia has caused concern and outrage"

If Australia had been unwise enough to be heavily reliant on the EU I dare say the reaction would have been significantly worse, but even so the knock on effects on the EU's reputation will be large and wider than just with Australia. The EU's combination of disrupting Covid-19 vaccine supply chains whilst at the same time opposing the TRIPS waiver that would have massively boosted production is not a good look, and the people of the world are paying close attention.

flash2015 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:10 pm

Again "I really was really against Brexit" Octavious is trying way too hard to hate on Europe for the umpteenth time.

Good God, man. Even the most nieve players of Diplomacy know not to tell a lie that's easily disproven

https://www.sciencealert.com/vaccine-ho ... more-years

Interesting look at this problem from a global perspective

Octavious wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:47 pm

Really? ABC, who can be relied upon for sober coverage, reported that article as follows:

"News of the blockage of a shipment of 250,000 COVID-19 vaccines from Europe to Australia has caused concern and outrage"

If Australia had been unwise enough to be heavily reliant on the EU I dare say the reaction would have been significantly worse, but even so the knock on effects on the EU's reputation will be large and wider than just with Australia. The EU's combination of disrupting Covid-19 vaccine supply chains whilst at the same time opposing the TRIPS waiver that would have massively boosted production is not a good look, and the people of the world are paying close attention.

Gosh you are a twat. Listen to the Prime Minister from Australia talk about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNgHyrNzrg4&t=0m37s

Australians are pretty understanding about the matter. The only ones complaining about it are Brits who can't get a grip on the fact that Brexit is actually over. You can actually stop whining now...unless you get off on the constant whining.

flash2015 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:10 pm

Again "I really was really against Brexit" Octavious is trying way too hard to hate on Europe for the umpteenth time.

Good God, man. Even the most nieve players of Diplomacy know not to tell a lie that's easily disproven

Yeah, yeah, whatever. Keep trolling.

orathaic wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 05, 2021 9:50 pm

https://www.sciencealert.com/vaccine-ho ... more-years

Interesting look at this problem from a global perspective

I believe the concerns about "vaccine nationalism" are way overblown. The worst casualties of COVID have been Europe and the US...so it would stand to reason that they won't want to give much of their vaccine away in the short term.

I do feel it is a bit of the "put on your mask first then help others" sort of thing too. The US and Europe will be in a far better shape to help the rest of the world once they have their own houses in order. In the US especially, Trump plus COVID were tearing the country apart. Thankfully we got rid of the Trump part...and we should be swimming in vaccine by summer. I am sure the US will be sending vaccine far and wide once we get to herd immunity here.

orathaic wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:22 pm

Nope, because my arguments tend to make sense

And yet, you claim the EU 'stole' something which they entirely didn't do. The US could ban the export of weapons to Iran, they wouldn't be stealing Iranian weapons.

You are either a liar or your arguments are based on a lack of sensible understanding of the world.

You are absolutely right of course. No vaccine was stolen. At worst the only thing stolen was Australia's place in line for deliveries. Even then by the end of March Australia is going to have 1M a week produced locally so very soon this issue is going to be completely irrelevant. I suspect the delivery will just be cancelled completely.

Of course, Oct was trolling....though if he made a reasonable and rational argument probably no one would respond. I remember a thread you started a few months ago for Brexit. I looked at your message...and I didn't really feel strongly one way or the other on it so I couldn't be bothered participating. Tour thread sat there lonely for a couple of weeks without any response. Then Octavious responded with some nonsense designed specifically to troll you and Jamiet...and it was off to the races.

I assure you, flash, if you choose not to add your unique contribution to an issue no one will mind . Ora and Jamie are both big boys who are perfectly capable of deciding whether or not they want to discuss something, and tend to know the difference between trolling and a different opinion. It's not a game of last person to post wins

You say that now only because you win most of the time...

In more news on the BS Octavious started here: EU exported 8 million vaccine doses in Feb, UK not exporting any: see https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/statu ... 0687651846

I don't think I nor anyone else has ever claimed that the UK is a major vaccine manufacturer hub... I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

But what is clear is that early British investment and research has played a significant role in the development of vaccines against this virus, and the UK is one of the major contributers to the COVAX initiative.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-r ... et-vaccine

It is unfortunate that both the EU and the UK are opposing the TRIPS waiver that is forcing less developed nations to rely on EU exports rather than simply do it themselves.

https://www.msf.org/countries-obstructi ... gotiations

Kay_B wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:42 pm

Is it bad if there are volunteers who have invested in research and vaccine development? Moreover, this investment was without a 100% guarantee, without a clear time frame. But if not for these investments, the world of the vaccine would have seen much later.

I'm not sure if I'm completely following what you're saying, but on the face of it i don't think we're disagreeing about anything.

Apparently the US is sitting on tens of millions of doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine with more in the pipeline...with EUA at best weeks away (AstraZeneca haven't even applied yet):

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-u ... r-BB1euJvc

OK, now this is a bit much. The EU are suggesting seizing factories at the same time as they have temporarily halted the rollout due to blood clot concerns:

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/we- ... 57bq7.html

I am starting to have less sympathy for the EU position.

The EU didn't halt rollout, some individual countries did. They are democracies so need to keep the population in board, and they are being careful with new technology... When the data is unclear.

The EMA did approve the continued rollout. Which is good. Not because being careful is bad, but because we need all the vaccine we can get our hands on.

The US currently has about 30 million AstraZeneca doses, and has not yet approved their use (might happen next week) but also will not let anyone else use them.

orathaic wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:21 pm

The EU didn't halt rollout, some individual countries did. They are democracies so need to keep the population in board, and they are being careful with new technology... When the data is unclear.

The EMA did approve the continued rollout. Which is good. Not because being careful is bad, but because we need all the vaccine we can get our hands on.

The US currently has about 30 million AstraZeneca doses, and has not yet approved their use (might happen next week) but also will not let anyone else use them.

Did you not read the news earlier today? We're donating them to Canada and Mexico.

TheFlyingBoat wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:19 am

orathaic wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:21 pm

The EU didn't halt rollout, some individual countries did. They are democracies so need to keep the population in board, and they are being careful with new technology... When the data is unclear.

The EMA did approve the continued rollout. Which is good. Not because being careful is bad, but because we need all the vaccine we can get our hands on.

The US currently has about 30 million AstraZeneca doses, and has not yet approved their use (might happen next week) but also will not let anyone else use them.

Did you not read the news earlier today? We're donating them to Canada and Mexico.

Must have missed that. Fairly surprising given approval may be coming down the line soon.

I still believe we will give away most of it.

In a few states there are already reports of having difficulty filling up appointments. Many states have responded by rapidly opening up eligibility:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurk ... 7545ff4165

It isn't too far away before it changes from "I have been trying for hours each day to get a vaccine appointment" to not being able to swing a cat without being offered a vaccine. If the AstraZeneca approval comes mid to late April (AstraZeneca still haven't even applied for the EUA yet) it will be a hard sell to get anyone to take it here given its disadvantages vs. the other three vaccines.

Note that the promise of having enough doses by the end of may for all adults didn't even count AstraZeneca at all (200M from Pfizer/Moderna, 100M fro J&J which is only one dose).