Making the EU LGBT free one county at a time

[Octavious]

So, Poland has reelected Duda in an election with one of, if not the, highest turnouts since the fall of the Soviet Empire. Key issues were fighting against LGBT rights and reforming the judiciary. It will allow the Law and Justice party to continue to tighten abortion law, expand the ever growing area of Poland declaring itself LGBT free, and get a tighter grip on what passes for Polish justice these days.

To all our EU members who like to dedicate most of their time to criticising America and obsess over Trump's latest Tweet rather than tackle the shit going on in their own back yard, hopefully this will be the slap in the face you need to get a bit of bloody perspective.

The thousands of miles of border wall, the erosion of independent judiciary, the arrest and imprisonment of politicians who campaigned peacefully for independence... You may want to do something about that rather than criticise Trump's latest golfing holiday.

Just a thought

[flash2015]

Which EU members are you talking about other than orathaic? You, Jamiet, Hellenic Riot and many other commenters are soon not to be EU members any more.

[flash2015]

Surely after the UK leaves the EU, US news will be far more important than what is happening in Poland?

[Octavious]

Surely after the UK leaves the EU, US news will be far more important than what is happening in Poland?

Not really. What makes you think so?

As for other members, Peterlund springs to mind, and I dare say some of the occasional posters I don't really know at all are European. But admittedly our numbers have fallen dramatically since the forum was made a welcoming safe space with about as much life and interest as your average warehouse.

[flash2015]

Surely after the UK leaves the EU, US news will be far more important than what is happening in Poland?

Not really. What makes you think so?

As for other members, Peterlund springs to mind, and I dare say some of the occasional posters I don't really know at all are European. But admittedly our numbers have fallen dramatically since the forum was made a welcoming safe space with about as much life and interest as your average warehouse.

Trade deals for one, international relations (e.g. G7, NATO, middle east, China, Russia) and many things will make news in the US far more important than news in Poland.

[orathaic]

FYI, the UK has already left the EU, no longer has any say in the Parliament, Commission or Council. Still follows EU rules until Dec 31st, not sure about citizenship. But after the transition period ends, only Northern Irish (UK citizens) will have an automatic right to retain their EU citizenship (by applying for Irish citizenship under the good Friday agreement).

I don't know what that means for all the english retirees who migrated to Spain...

[Octavious]

Surely after the UK leaves the EU, US news will be far more important than what is happening in Poland?

Not really. What makes you think so?

As for other members, Peterlund springs to mind, and I dare say some of the occasional posters I don't really know at all are European. But admittedly our numbers have fallen dramatically since the forum was made a welcoming safe space with about as much life and interest as your average warehouse.

Trade deals for one, international relations (e.g. G7, NATO, middle east, China, Russia) and many things will make news in the US far more important than news in Poland.

The trade deal with the EU is of more significance than that with the US, the EU also contains rather more G7 and NATO members, and the EU relationship with Russia is arguably more important to us than the US Russian relationship. I'm not claiming that the US is unimportant, but it is probably less important.

[Octavious]

I don't know what that means for all the english retirees who migrated to Spain...

I don't understand the fascination with the subject. The overwhelming likelihood is that it won't mean anything as Spain is quite fond of playing host to a bunch of wealthy old people. If Spain decides to shoot themselves in the foot by chasing them away that's entirely their right, and the pensioners will just have to move somewhere else. Of all the issues in the world, this is extremely small beer and can be summed up with the headline "Outside chance that some well off people will be inconvenienced!"

[flash2015]

Not really. What makes you think so?

As for other members, Peterlund springs to mind, and I dare say some of the occasional posters I don't really know at all are European. But admittedly our numbers have fallen dramatically since the forum was made a welcoming safe space with about as much life and interest as your average warehouse.

Trade deals for one, international relations (e.g. G7, NATO, middle east, China, Russia) and many things will make news in the US far more important than news in Poland.

The trade deal with the EU is of more significance than that with the US, the EU also contains rather more G7 and NATO members, and the EU relationship with Russia is arguably more important to us than the US Russian relationship. I'm not claiming that the US is unimportant, but it is probably less important.

But we aren't comparing US to EU, are we? You specifically compared US to Poland, not the EU. Since the UK is not part of the EU anymore Poland is about as important as a state in the US...like Florida or Kansas.

[Octavious]

But we aren't comparing US to EU, are we? You specifically compared US to Poland, not the EU. Since the UK is not part of the EU anymore Poland is about as important as a state in the US...like Florida or Kansas.

No, you should read my opening post again. I specifically mentioned events spanning the EU, although chief amongst them is the most recent event in Poland. But regardless of your error, why would it even matter? Much criticism of the US is in regard to events that happen only in limited parts of it. I've been told that some of the US is actually quite pleasant.

[flash2015]

But we aren't comparing US to EU, are we? You specifically compared US to Poland, not the EU. Since the UK is not part of the EU anymore Poland is about as important as a state in the US...like Florida or Kansas.

No, you should read my opening post again. I specifically mentioned events spanning the EU, although chief amongst them is the most recent event in Poland. But regardless of your error, why would it even matter? Much criticism of the US is in regard to events that happen only in limited parts of it. I've been told that some of the US is actually quite pleasant.

Let's get the history of the thread clear. I initially made the comment that since the UK left the EU, for the UK US national news is going to be more important than what is happening in Poland...which is a country internal to the EU.

You said no and rattled off a list of things about the EU as a whole which was completely irrelevant to the specific point I had made.

And now you are shifting the goalposts again. You mention Trump in the original post meaning you are talking about national US policy...now you are claiming you are talking about US regional issues (I am not even sure what you are referring to here) which may or may not have anything to do with Trump. Which is it?

Of course the whole thread is based on a silly argument. No-one is stopping you from starting threads about Hungary or Poland or an issue with some Central African Republic or wherever. I am sure those discussions would be quite interesting. But that is not what you are doing. You are instead effectively saying "stop talking about issue X" because it isn't important to you or you don't like talking about it (you made a similar argument in the other thread too). That is your opinion which is your right, but I don't understand why you expect anyone to agree with you on this.

[Octavious]

Flash, I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't even know why you're attempting to make whatever argument you're trying to make. A key and powerful member of the EU is making fighting against LGBT rights a key plank of its policy and you're declaring the issue irrelevant? The EU is marching into its biggest recession in history and the dark forces already stand at a higher water mark. Merkel, the bastion of European stability, will soon be gone. The National Front maintain their second place in the French presidential elections, Spain is arresting politicians, Hungary has effectively suspended democracy, and the least said about Italy the better. The state of the EU should be front and centre in the minds of all who live in it and many who live near it because the situation is bloody grim.

If you want to obsess over Yankyland by all means do so. It is what Yanks are good at, and you're perfectly justified in doing so. But let's not pretend that for the rest of the world it's that important. If Trump or Biden wins, who really cares? They're both shit in different ways, and it'll be a pleasant surprise if both live for four more years, yet alone stay fit enough to run a country.

[flash2015]

Flash, I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't even know why you're attempting to make whatever argument you're trying to make. A key and powerful member of the EU is making fighting against LGBT rights a key plank of its policy and you're declaring the issue irrelevant? The EU is marching into its biggest recession in history and the dark forces already stand at a higher water mark. Merkel, the bastion of European stability, will soon be gone. The National Front maintain their second place in the French presidential elections, Spain is arresting politicians, Hungary has effectively suspended democracy, and the least said about Italy the better. The state of the EU should be front and centre in the minds of all who live in it and many who live near it because the situation is bloody grim.

If you want to obsess over Yankyland by all means do so. It is what Yanks are good at, and you're perfectly justified in doing so. But let's not pretend that for the rest of the world it's that important. If Trump or Biden wins, who really cares? They're both shit in different ways, and it'll be a pleasant surprise if both live for four more years, yet alone stay fit enough to run a country.

I don't understand. I am not calling any of these issues irrelevant. If you want to create a thread about ANY of these internal EU issues, go right ahead, no-one is stopping you. I am happy to learn something I don't know.

If you don't care about threads about the US don't comment on them then. Simple.

What is the problem again?

Or am I missing something and you are really suggesting mandating some Politics thread "quota" system (i.e. Jamiet/orathaic are now not allowed to create a thread about the US without also creating a thread about some internal EU issue)?

[Jamiet99uk]

What is happening in Poland right now is disgusting. Difficult to know how the EU should react. He probably wants them to take a hard line as an excuse to leave? Which is absurd as Poland has benefited hugely from EU membership. But all these people care about is gang mentality and hatred. Sad.

[orathaic]

Sadly, the EU will not react, because they would need all but Poland to support any action, and Hungary (which suspended democracy in light of Covid-19, and granted Viktor Orban the power to rule by decree for an unlimited amount of time...) is likely to back Poland up.

[orathaic]

I don't know what that means for all the english retirees who migrated to Spain...

I don't understand the fascination with the subject. The overwhelming likelihood is that it won't mean anything as Spain is quite fond of playing host to a bunch of wealthy old people. If Spain decides to shoot themselves in the foot by chasing them away that's entirely their right, and the pensioners will just have to move somewhere else. Of all the issues in the world, this is extremely small beer and can be summed up with the headline "Outside chance that some well off people will be inconvenienced!"

You don't understand the hypocrisy of a right-wing govt playing on racism and fear of migrants and promising to 'take back control' while being perfectly OK with 'ex-pats' heading off to sunset in Spain? Ok so.

[Octavious]

I don't know what that means for all the english retirees who migrated to Spain...

I don't understand the fascination with the subject. The overwhelming likelihood is that it won't mean anything as Spain is quite fond of playing host to a bunch of wealthy old people. If Spain decides to shoot themselves in the foot by chasing them away that's entirely their right, and the pensioners will just have to move somewhere else. Of all the issues in the world, this is extremely small beer and can be summed up with the headline "Outside chance that some well off people will be inconvenienced!"

You don't understand the hypocrisy of a right-wing govt playing on racism and fear of migrants and promising to 'take back control' while being perfectly OK with 'ex-pats' heading off to sunset in Spain? Ok so.

There's no hypocrisy. The principle is that it should be up to the host nation to decide how they treat their guests. The idea that the UK is somehow ant immigrant is a nonsense dreampt up by people trying to demonise the leave campaign. The idea that we somehow wish to dictate other nation's immigration policy is an even greater nonsense with not even a passing nod to reality.

[orathaic]

I don't understand the fascination with the subject. The overwhelming likelihood is that it won't mean anything as Spain is quite fond of playing host to a bunch of wealthy old people. If Spain decides to shoot themselves in the foot by chasing them away that's entirely their right, and the pensioners will just have to move somewhere else. Of all the issues in the world, this is extremely small beer and can be summed up with the headline "Outside chance that some well off people will be inconvenienced!"

You don't understand the hypocrisy of a right-wing govt playing on racism and fear of migrants and promising to 'take back control' while being perfectly OK with 'ex-pats' heading off to sunset in Spain? Ok so.

There's no hypocrisy. The principle is that it should be up to the host nation to decide how they treat their guests. The idea that the UK is somehow ant immigrant is a nonsense dreampt up by people trying to demonise the leave campaign.

And you actually believe that?

[Octavious]

It has the virtue of being true.

Ora, I know a lot of people who voted leave. Literally none of them voted leave to stop immigration or send immigrants back. None of them were remotely interested in what Spain decided to do with their immigrant communities.

[orathaic]

It has the virtue of being true.

Ora, I know a lot of people who voted leave. Literally none of them voted leave to stop immigration or send immigrants back. None of them were remotely interested in what Spain decided to do with their immigrant communities.

What percentage of the ~17 million leave voters is this?