Fear, Turkey, the EU and regufees...

[orathaic]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51678462

So the Turkish govt is now bussing refuges to their border with the EU and then nothing, just using the fear of them crossing as a bargaining chip in it's war with Syria/Russia.

Reports from the actual border suggest Bulgarian and Greek law/border enforcement are in violation of international norms by using violence against asylum seekers. Fascistic governments in the EU should not surprise us. But the media not reporting on them is basically giving them a pass. Turkish policy linking refugees to Syrian / Russian airstrikes just seems horrific. People should not be used as pawns like this.

How can I describe the issue. If Western nations insist on using war as a tool for advancing their political/economic goals, then they also need to take responsibility for the people fleeing those wars. Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria.

[orathaic]

https://twitter.com/jenanmoussa/status/ ... 82304?s=19

"Turkeys game plan becoming clearer, a NATO imposed no fly zone over Idlib in return for a return to repressing refugees on behalf of the EU"

https://t.co/S9zO7BxA9r

[peterlund]

But NATO will never support a no-fly-zone in Syria. The purpose of NATO is primarily to defend NATO territory. Its purpose is not to support Turkish military adventures in Syria, confronting Russia.

And also, I have seen a video of the rebels that Turkey is supporting. Many of them had ISIS emblems on their military coats.

[peterlund]

And now when Greece are effectively stopping anyone to enter the EU, the Erdogan silly gamble seems to have utterly failed. The EU commission has also been there on site to demonstrate to Erdogan that Greece has the support of the rest of EU doing this.

[Octavious]

The military of an EU member state is shooting at refugee lifeboats and its Erdoğan that gets all your criticism? Greece should be being slated by the EU, not given unconditional support. Is the EU really so scared by the rise of the far right they are willing to countenance this kind of action?

[peterlund]

Erdogan broke the current deal we had with him, bussing and fooling people to the border, using them as pawns in his disgraceful game.

Dealing with dictators like Erdogan is never easy or nice. It is critical that the European Democracies show firmness against bullies of all kinds, let it be Erdogan, Putin or ...

Should Turkey really be allowed to stay a member of NATO? I am not so sure.

[Randomizer]

Should Turkey really be allowed to stay a member of NATO? I am not so sure.

The EU is keeping Turkey to halt Russian expansion. Turkey gets a better offer and it'll side with Russia and give them free access to the south.

[orathaic]

But NATO will never support a no-fly-zone in Syria. The purpose of NATO is primarily to defend NATO territory. Its purpose is not to support Turkish military adventures in Syria, confronting Russia.

And also, I have seen a video of the rebels that Turkey is supporting. Many of them had ISIS emblems on their military coats.

Why wouldn't they support a no-fly zone? I mean they did it in Libya, which facilitated the ousting of Gaddafi, sure Assad is not going anywhere soon, he has managed to hold onto power in Syria... But Turkey is an ally and NATO member, why in principle would NATO 'never support a no-fly zone'? NATO has expanded its territory to the very borders of Russia since the fall of the Berlin Wall.

Also, yes, ISIS style militants have always been involved with the anti-Assad Syrian rebels, the US and Saudi's supported these groups for years because they could be trusted to oppose Iranian influence... Some of the more extreme became ISIS.. But then the US has form training up future enemies (like trainng the Taliban to fight the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in the 80s... Or arming Iraq to invade Iran in the 80s, both Iraq and the Taliban's Afghanistan became too strong and independent of US influence...)