Celebration of America

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Re: Celebration of America

#141 Post by ND » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:57 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:11 am
It sure is reassuring to know that your first instinct is to protect white people.
Stop being a racist and viewing the world in only white, et al. We are all human and in America we are equal and the same under the law and society. There is no such thing as race, privilege, etc. In America, everyone has an equal chance (Unless you are Hillary then you are above the law).

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Re: Celebration of America

#142 Post by Tom Bombadil » Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:59 pm

ND wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:57 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:11 am
It sure is reassuring to know that your first instinct is to protect white people.
Stop being a racist and viewing the world in only white, et al. We are all human and in America we are equal and the same under the law and society. There is no such thing as race, privilege, etc. In America, everyone has an equal chance (Unless you are Hillary then you are above the law).
Trolololololol
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Re: Celebration of America

#143 Post by ND » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:06 am

That's my world view dude. I think it's a blessed world view to have. I thank the Lord and Savior each day I am not brainwashed.

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Re: Celebration of America

#144 Post by flash2015 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:36 pm

ND wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:57 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:11 am
It sure is reassuring to know that your first instinct is to protect white people.
Stop being a racist and viewing the world in only white, et al. We are all human and in America we are equal and the same under the law and society. There is no such thing as race, privilege, etc. In America, everyone has an equal chance (Unless you are Hillary then you are above the law).
I don't think you can have it both ways though. You can't talk about race not being important and criticize "identity politics"...then give Trump a free pass when he makes it all about race. If you really believe that "there is no such thing as race, privilege, etc." then you should be outraged as the rest of us about his tweets...and his rally where he let the crowd chant "Send Her Back".

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Re: Celebration of America

#145 Post by Randomizer » Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:31 pm

"In America, everyone has an equal chance (Unless you are Hillary then you are above the law)."

@ ND - If you really believe that, then I want to know what you are taking so I can get it. America has never been that way from the original US constitution that counted black slaves as three fifths of a free person to the rich can almost always buy their way out of trouble.

Almost every group of immigrants have had to struggle against being told to go back from Irish, Italians, Jews, Mexicans, Chinese, Japanese, … Black slaves after they became free.

Do you really think that if O. J. Simpson hadn't been rich enough to hire a dream team of lawyers, he would have gone free on murder charges?

Do you think Jeffrey Epstein would have got a sweet heart plea deal all those years ago from Acosta if he hadn't been rich and hired all those prominent lawyers.

Look at the number of police officers that have gotten off on killing people when the victim was white versus other.

Like George Orwell said in Animal Farm, "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

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Re: Celebration of America

#146 Post by ND » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:10 pm

@Flash: Firstly, “Identity politics” is completely pandering to brainwashed drones. Everytime someone starts going on about it I just roll my eyes. Secondly, President Trump doesn’t make things about race. He never has. He makes it about America because we are all Americans and united by the flag. Why would I be outraged by the tweets? There was nothing racist about them. Why would I be offended by the rally? It was excellent. I am offended by Congresswoman AoC putting down Americans and I am offended by Congresswoman Omar supporting Al-Qaeda, putting Americans down, and being anti-semetic.

@Randomizer: I mean, what is so strange about that statement? America is a country, just like the UK or France, or China is a country. When you are a citizen of that country you take on the nationality: French, British, American, Chinese, etc. At the end of the day we are all human beings and we are all a member of our country. Artificial barriers and labels that we put on ourselves are only used to divide and we need to get past that and start thinking of ourselves as humans and whatever our country is. That’s what I believe.

Last I checked this isn’t 1789 or you know the early 1900’s. It’s 2019 and we need to recognize these artificial labels are just labels used to divide and put us in boxes by the left.

Well, yeah Hillary is above the law and a few other folks are. I guess my list wasn’t too exhaustive. You could add OJ and Epstein to that.

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Re: Celebration of America

#147 Post by Randomizer » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:49 pm

@ND - I wonder about how you can believe what you do, but then I remember the stories my mother told me about growing up in her homeland where people were praising their new elected leader who was a good man who was going to make their country great again. As a history major you might have heard of him, they were talking about Adolph Hitler.

Trump doesn't consider being born in the US as a citizen is enough. He's all for labels and belittling where people come from. He's not a uniter, but a divider. He attacked the judge on the Trump university trial for being Mexican descent. He went after Warren over her American Indian descent.

Trump wants to end chain immigration which made his in laws US citizens when they might have committed crimes in their homeland. It's unclear how much evidence there was of these crimes.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/melanias- ... lice-files

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Re: Celebration of America

#148 Post by ND » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:56 pm

@Randomizer: I'm glad your family escaped the Nazis. My best friend's grandfather was a holocaust survivor. I grew up visiting their house. I've studied Weimar extensively at the graduate level. The Nazis were evil people and subverted a democratic state. However, in no universe, would I compare Hitler to Trump or the Nazi state to America. Although, America does have some things in common with Weimar.

The Nazis themselves were outside of the normal political spectrum. They were a pariah group that lifted ideas from different ideologies. In Weimar, there was internal threats from the far left, the Communists, and the Nazis (who were not right wing or left wing). In the last major parliamentarian election of the Weimar Republic the two non-democratic parties (National Socialists and Communists) received close to or near 50% of the vote share.

In America, the Republican Party is not a pariah party. The Republican party is a center-right party that is based on the founding documents of the nation. The Constitution, Bill of Rights, Federalist Papers, etc. This would be completely alien to the National Socialists as they attempted to subvert Weimar's founding from the very beginning. They never held allegiance to Weimar or its founding charter.

In America, Trump is a democratically elected President that rules within the confines of the law. To my knowledge, he has never disobeyed a Supreme Court decision (unlike other Presidents). To my knowledge, he doesn't have armed thugs in the streets bullying people (Unlike the Brown Shirts in Weimar). Sure, he says things you can say are controversial, but to compare him to Adolf Hitler who literally disbanded the Republic upon becoming Chancellor with the enabling act? When has he tried to stay in office beyond his term? Disband Congress? Universally pass laws without consent? Disobeyed the Supreme Court? Rounded up American Citizens from the left and placed them in concentration camps (Like Hitler did in 33 and 34) or created hospitals where he murdered folks with diseases, children, or disabled people (like Hitler did which was a forerunner of the death camps?). When has he cracked down on the press that doesn't like him and ruled they can't print their papers or run their news segments? Hasn't happened. Sure, he complains about them but he isn't using the government to suppress the press like in Germany. So, when you call Trump a Nazi all you show me is that you know nothing about the Nazis and what they did.

Furthermore, as I said, the Republican Party has nothing in common with the Nazi Party. However, the Democratic Party does. Like the Nazis, the Democrats have no allegiance to the founding principles of America. They actively attempt to subvert the freedoms in the Bill of Rights at every chance they get:
a. cracking down on free speech (Hate Laws, Censorship of Social Media, College speech restrictions)
b. removing the citizenry's guns (like the Nazis did when they removed the rights from citizens to own weapons upon coming to power.
c. working to win elections in a nondemocratic way (using the courts to redistrict, using the courts for excessive recounts, signing up illegal aliens to vote)
d. loosely aligning themselves with hate groups and attempting to suppress political opponents (Antifa which is akin to the Nazi Brown Shirts and in the bygone days they used the KKK. the Democrats have always had an armed militant wing of their party loosely aligned with them to suppress opposition).
e. Using non-American founding documents as inspiration for what they want to do (in their case global treaties, international law, and in their mind this trumps the constitution)

So, like in Weimar, the American Republic in indeed in jeopardy however it's not from the *Right* it's from the Far Left.

As for your point about chain migration. Good, I hope that Trump is able to get that removed it's undemocratic and unfair to people waiting in line to come into this country.
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Re: Celebration of America

#149 Post by Randomizer » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:18 pm

While the Republican party is not a pariah party. Trump was a registered Democrat until just before running for president when he became a "Republican." Before that he contributed to whatever candidate he thought would help his businesses including the Clintons. He's pretty much only in name a Republican since he doesn't support their old values.

Right now it is questionable whether most Republican politicians at national level should really be considered ones since they have gone against their old values. Fiscal responsibility, cutting the budget, national debt and deficit spending, and any financial values went out under Newt Gingrich and spend anything to get re-elected. Trump loves debt since he got so much as a businessman and has caused it to skyrocket since taking office.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/17/politics ... index.html

Trump hasn't disobeyed a Supreme Court decision, but is trying to find a work around after losing the Census question. However he and his departments are in violation of lower court decisions that he hasn't appealed to higher courts like the Flores decision regarding detention of minor immigrants. He is also currently fighting other cases and attempting to delay them past his term in office.

Trump hasn't got organized thugs like the Brown Shirts, but he has called for his campaign supporters at rallies to attack his opponents and their supporters. He has tried to claim incitement to violence is free speech or joking.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donal ... -violence/

Trump has repeated called various press organizations "enemies of the state" and acted to curtail their access to press briefings. He would like to have all media outlets that criticize him closed and has even recently attacked Fox for no longer strongly praising him.

Trump has used executive decisions, much like other presidents, to bypass Congress with fake national emergencies to make arm sales in the Mid East, move spending from where it was appropriated (which only Congress can do), and change laws.

Trump has joked that he is entitled to 2 extra years in office because of the Mueller investigation. We don't know if he will leave office when his time is up. He has already questioned whether he will accept the results of the next election as legitimate if the loses as he did in 2016. However using that logic Bill Clinton is entitled to extra time for Whitewater and Obama should have 7 more years for Trump pushing his fake Birther claim.

Trump's fake claims of voter fraud for Democrats in the 2016 election have never been shown, but there have been documented ones for Republican vote fraud.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1QG2FS

Plus all the cases of polling stations being closed in heavily Democrat voter areas. Valid Democrat registrations being removed ahead of the elections.

I'm too tired to go on refuting your fake facts. As Jack Nicholson said, "You can't handle the truth."
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Re: Celebration of America

#150 Post by ND » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:35 pm

So, Trump, when he was a private citizen was entitled to support whoever he wanted. I would hardly call him a RINO though. If you want a RINO look at John McCain, Jeb Bush, George Bush, etc. Most of the problems with the debt are due to Democrats spending us into oblivion and then refusing to cut anything.

Yeah, Trump hasn’t disobeyed a Supreme Court decision and guess what those lower court decisions are being appealed. Fully, within his right to do.

I would hardly call a few off the cuff remarks at a rally as the same as the Brown Shirts or the same as how the Democrats are in league with a violent hate group like ANTIFA and how they used to work side by side with the KKK. Until recently, the Democrats had members of their party at the national level who were former KKK members like Robert Byrd who Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton praised. Heck, Bill Clinton’s 1992 campaign featured the confederate flag: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/clinton- ... 373aac28a0

So, yeah the Democrats worked with Pro-Confederate groups, the KKK until at least the early 90s and now work with a terrorist group known as ANTIFA. Both are similar to the Brown Shirts and work to suppress free speech and suppress political opposition. The Republicans have never had a hate group working with them like the Democrats had and still do.

As for the “enemies of the state” thing. Sure, Trump is pretty much right although I wouldn't use those words. The media blatantly lies about him and works each day to overturn a democratically elected election (2016). You aren’t inside his mind though so you don’t know if he wants to close all media. The mainstream press is basically just a wing of the modern Democratic Party just as the ANTIFA/KKK is. And, the Democratic Party is not pro-America they are an anti-American group so in a sense they are "enemies of the state" if you believe in a country with borders and sovereignty. Again, I wouldn't use those words, but he isn't wrong from a certain point of view.

Trump jokes all the time. He isn’t staying in office past his term though. And, yeah, obviously the Democrats steal elections with vote rigging that’s why they want uncontrolled mass immigration to overwhelm and collapse the state.

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Re: Celebration of America

#151 Post by Randomizer » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:06 pm

Former Republican state senator from Louisiana, David Duke, Grand Wizard of the KKK. How times and party affiliations have changed and you have repeatedly made the point that what was long ago in past doesn't matter.

I guess you forgot about Trump's supporters among the White Supremacist groups that he regular retweets. I'm really not going to wait until they get better organized since so many of them have killed repeating his words and Fox News messages to justify their actions.

After Trump pushed against migrant caravans:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburg ... e_shooting

True I'm not inside Trump's mind so I have to rely on his statements and actions. He may think he isn't a sexist, racist, anti-Semite, but I can't tell from his past and I can't contact every time to get his truth.

As for the mainstream press, I guess you have forgotten about how much they went against Clinton's and Obama's actions when they were in office. Even during the 2016 campaign there were plenty of stories going after Hillary Clinton or any other front runner for either party.

So far Trump has shown no proof of Democrat vote fraud. His millions of popular votes stories are fake news. However Republican harvesting and altering of absentee ballots is proven fact.

Arizona is spending about half a million dollars this year for vote fraud when the last prosecuted case was a Republican voter voting in two different states at the same time. The case failed when the judge ruled there was no overlap in offices.

As for vote rigging, I have seen how in elections the official vote counts at heavily Democrat voter areas have dropped in almost half when tallied at the Republican state level.

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Re: Celebration of America

#152 Post by flash2015 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:46 pm

ND wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:10 pm
@Flash: Firstly, “Identity politics” is completely pandering to brainwashed drones. Everytime someone starts going on about it I just roll my eyes. Secondly, President Trump doesn’t make things about race. He never has. He makes it about America because we are all Americans and united by the flag. Why would I be outraged by the tweets? There was nothing racist about them. Why would I be offended by the rally? It was excellent. I am offended by Congresswoman AoC putting down Americans and I am offended by Congresswoman Omar supporting Al-Qaeda, putting Americans down, and being anti-semetic.
It seems like you are being willfully blind here. "Go back to your own country" has been a racist trope since forever. "identity politics", which I am not a supporter of, is about defining people by their racial/sexual/other attributes. When Trump says "Go back to your own country" this is exactly what he is doing to the squad. You can disagree with the squad's opinions and call them out on them and I am sure there is plenty to disagree with there but to just outright lie and make stuff up as he did in his rally and stoke these racial hatreds is leading the US down a dangerous path, especially since this racist and divisive push is being led by the POTUS himself.

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Re: Celebration of America

#153 Post by Stressedlines » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:44 pm

Go back to your country was used on Irish and Italians and jews by english and german americans


Pretty sure they are all sorta the same.

The squad is batshit crazy. There are plenty of poc in Congress that dont get told that. Those 4 idiots need to go back to whatever planet they are from cuz their ideas Re insane
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Re: Celebration of America

#154 Post by flash2015 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:12 pm

Stressedlines wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:44 pm
Go back to your country was used on Irish and Italians and jews by english and german americans


Pretty sure they are all sorta the same.

The squad is batshit crazy. There are plenty of poc in Congress that dont get told that. Those 4 idiots need to go back to whatever planet they are from cuz their ideas Re insane
Just because they were all white didn't make it not racist. The racial division lines were just different in the past. JFK broke major barriers when he became the first US Catholic president...as there certainly was prejudice against Catholics before that.

Sure, they have some crazy ideas and policies (e.g. like AOC help run Amazon out of NYC - utter madness - I can see why she did it as she believes that it will make it harder for poorer people to live in Queens, but the jobs and the economic development will more than make up for that). But again, it is not right, as Trump and the right wing media are doing constantly, to put words in their mouth that they just didn't say like that they all hate America or Ilhan Omar Supports Al Qaeda or AOC said the US was garbage.

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Re: Celebration of America

#155 Post by Stressedlines » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:43 pm

That's ethnic. Not racial. Russian kids adopted by americans are. Ot known to be russian til they tell somone.

They have western euro names and no accents. So the only way for another white person to tell is by names.or accents or something else

Rwanda was not racial in its war. It was ethnic. There is a difference

And aoc and them.others Re still batshot crazy and probably the real reason for the comments

You know the Cherokee here the aoc for her comments. Is that racial?

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Re: Celebration of America

#156 Post by Stressedlines » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:47 pm

Btw. Since only 3 have messaged or posted. Anyone here want to play a gunboat from politics.posters only?

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Re: Celebration of America

#157 Post by flash2015 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:03 pm

Stressedlines wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:43 pm
That's ethnic. Not racial. Russian kids adopted by americans are. Ot known to be russian til they tell somone.

They have western euro names and no accents. So the only way for another white person to tell is by names.or accents or something else

Rwanda was not racial in its war. It was ethnic. There is a difference

And aoc and them.others Re still batshot crazy and probably the real reason for the comments

You know the Cherokee here the aoc for her comments. Is that racial?
You are splitting hairs. Whether there is discrimination based on race, ethnicity, religion or other reasons doesn't make one "less bad" than the other.

Catholics were discriminated against in multiple Anglo countries like my home country Australia. Southern Europeans were also discriminated against in my home country Australia after the second world war (they were called "wogs"). That prejudice/racism was wrong then as it is now. You know that people would often change their names when they immigrated to sound more American to make it less likely they would be discriminated against, don't you?

I am not a big fan of the four and I think they get far more airplay than they deserve (their airplay is largely a product of right-wing media strategy). Whilst calling them "batshit crazy" or telling them to "go back to their own country" or deliberately lying and misrepresenting their opinions may play well politically in the short term, it is not an honest or a moral strategy.

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Re: Celebration of America

#158 Post by ND » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:14 pm

I'll respond to Randomizer soon. His post is easily refuted. As for Flash's point about the tweet? Nah. I don't really think that is racist personally.

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Re: Celebration of America

#159 Post by flash2015 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:42 pm

ND wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:14 pm
I'll respond to Randomizer soon. His post is easily refuted. As for Flash's point about the tweet? Nah. I don't really think that is racist personally.
The EEOC would disagree with you here:

'One example the EEOC lists on its website matches nearly word-for-word the President’s tweets.

“Examples of potentially unlawful conduct include insults, taunting, or ethnic epithets, such as making fun of a person’s foreign accent or comments like, “Go back to where you came from.” '

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/dona ... oyment-law

CNN also talks about multiple discrimination cases where "Go back to your own country" was deemed to be discriminatory:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/20/politics ... index.html

Of course I suspect you will ignore because the facts don't align with your feelings.

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Re: Celebration of America

#160 Post by ND » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:01 pm

I am going to tell you right now and say this as frankly as I can. I don't care what CNN says. They are basically 'the brain' or intelligence wing of the Democratic Party. They are as blatantly biased as humanly possible. Using them as evidence does nothing for your case.
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