Time zones in America

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Senlac
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Re: Time zones in America

#61 Post by Senlac » Wed May 22, 2019 12:19 am

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 4:23 pm
Flash, it's absolutely about paedophilia. Any grown man who impregnates a 10 year old girl is a paedophile. Any lawmaker who thinks that allowing that man to marry the 10 year old girl he impregnates is evil, and a supporter of paedophiles.

And to bring in Senlac's view on this issue: YAY DEMOCRACY! CHILD MARRIAGES, THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!

Hooray for creepy uncle Cletus and his democratically-defended right to impregnate and marry his 10-year old niece.

Fucking sick.
It’s got nothing to do with Democracy as such. Virtually the entire Muslim world condones child marriages & no one gets to vote on it...
My stand is not a celebration when popular will (by vote counting or otherwise) results in something I view immoral (like child marriages).
It’s just an acknowledgement that I can’t influence it in any way, other than voicing disapproval if asked & being ignored. The Islamic nations aren’t going to change a practise the Prophet Mohamed himself conducted.
My view & your view carry zero weight in Saudi Arabia or Idaho. To be really blunt my opinion carries almost no weight outside my own family & I expect few people even in Durham give a damn what you think on anything either.
My stance is one of realism. It is what it is. Nobody gives a flying fuck what either of us think, especially when we are not even in their community. You misrepresent me I saying I approve of such laws just because a majority in that location happens to approve. I just acknowledge it’s reality & move on.

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Re: Time zones in America

#62 Post by Senlac » Wed May 22, 2019 8:04 pm

Senlac wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 12:19 am
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 4:23 pm
Flash, it's absolutely about paedophilia. Any grown man who impregnates a 10 year old girl is a paedophile. Any lawmaker who thinks that allowing that man to marry the 10 year old girl he impregnates is evil, and a supporter of paedophiles.

And to bring in Senlac's view on this issue: YAY DEMOCRACY! CHILD MARRIAGES, THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!

Hooray for creepy uncle Cletus and his democratically-defended right to impregnate and marry his 10-year old niece.

Fucking sick.
It’s got nothing to do with Democracy as such. Virtually the entire Muslim world condones child marriages & no one gets to vote on it...
My stand is not a celebration when popular will (by vote counting or otherwise) results in something I view immoral (like child marriages).
It’s just an acknowledgement that I can’t influence it in any way, other than voicing disapproval if asked & being ignored. The Islamic nations aren’t going to change a practise the Prophet Mohamed himself conducted.
My view & your view carry zero weight in Saudi Arabia or Idaho. To be really blunt my opinion carries almost no weight outside my own family & I expect few people even in Durham give a damn what you think on anything either.
My stance is one of realism. It is what it is. Nobody gives a flying fuck what either of us think, especially when we are not even in their community. You misrepresent me I saying I approve of such laws just because a majority in that location happens to approve. I just acknowledge it’s reality & move on.
No response from Jamiet99uk of Durham. I guess child marriage has suddenly become less of an ideological travesty with the discovery it’s commonplace in locations other than Idaho? Fun baiting the Americans, but not PC when it comes to Muslims? Is that the problem? Hurrah for Multicultural UK!
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Re: Time zones in America

#63 Post by flash2015 » Wed May 22, 2019 10:07 pm

@Seniac, I agree that Jamiet went over the top. But on your specific point about child marriage I don't believe your assertion that it is somehow unique to Islam. It cuts across religious lines - Christians, Muslims and Hindus have adherents which are guilty of it (e.g. as well as being high in the example countries mentioned, child marriage is also prevalent in countries like Ukraine and the Philippines):

https://www.cfr.org/blog/child-marriage-and-religion-0

Another site:

https://www.girlsnotbrides.org/8-child- ... -day-2017/

As well pointing back to the Holy Book I am not sure is really that compelling. The story of the conquest of Palestine by Joshua is a story of genocide and ethnic cleansing. Should I infer that Jews/Christians have a monopoly on these things just because this was glorified in the early books of the Bible?

There is, of course, the argument - why complain about child marriage in the US when child marriage is more prevalent in other countries? I would argue the answer is the same as why you care when your child does something wrong vs when someone's child in another city does something wrong. Or when there was an outpouring of sympathy for the French terror attacks vs. the crickets for terror attacks in Turkey not long before it.

We give the incidents which are closer to us, either culturally, location wise or through family more prominence than those incidents further away. The US also places itself in sort of a world moral guardian role so just by the high standards itself and other countries it is going to receive more criticism when it doesn't appear to be living up to these standards.

Of course, you are right that there is not much we can do. You and Jamiet both live outside the USA...and even though I do live here, I can't vote. It would be nice if Jamie could perhaps discuss something a little closer to home. There is lots of interesting stuff with Brexit going on there (e.g. the recent David Davies interview was a little scary - he is a "Remoaner"??). I am sure we can have a civil discussion on what is happening with Brexit, can't we? :razz:
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Re: Time zones in America

#64 Post by Jamiet99uk » Wed May 22, 2019 10:09 pm

I don't know what response you expected to your shrugging of the shoulders, Senlac.

This isn't about Muslims, but anyone who has followed this forum knows I am a vocal critic of Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is an evil and murderous regime.

America however likes to present itself as an enlightened country, the home of the free, a shining beacon to the world. Instead it is nothing like that. It is a land where lawmakers defend paedophiles and women have no rights over their own bodies. Disgusting.

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Re: Time zones in America

#65 Post by Senlac » Wed May 22, 2019 10:17 pm

flash2015 wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 10:07 pm
@Seniac, I agree that Jamiet went over the top. But on your specific point about child marriage I don't believe your assertion that it is somehow unique to Islam. It cuts across religious lines - Christians, Muslims and Hindus have adherents which are guilty of it (e.g. as well as being high in the example countries mentioned, child marriage is also prevalent in countries like Ukraine and the Philippines):

https://www.cfr.org/blog/child-marriage-and-religion-0

Another site:

https://www.girlsnotbrides.org/8-child- ... -day-2017/

As well pointing back to the Holy Book I am not sure is really that compelling. The story of the conquest of Palestine by Joshua is a story of genocide and ethnic cleansing. Should I infer that Jews/Christians have a monopoly on these things just because this was glorified in the early books of the Bible?

There is, of course, the argument - why complain about child marriage in the US when child marriage is more prevalent in other countries? I would argue the answer is the same as why you care when your child does something wrong vs when someone's child in another city does something wrong. Or when there was an outpouring of sympathy for the French terror attacks vs. the crickets for terror attacks in Turkey not long before it.

We give the incidents which are closer to us, either culturally, location wise or through family more prominence than those incidents further away. The US also places itself in sort of a world moral guardian role so just by the high standards itself and other countries it is going to receive more criticism when it doesn't appear to be living up to these standards.

Of course, you are right that there is not much we can do. You and Jamiet both live outside the USA...and even though I do live here, I can't vote. It would be nice if Jamie could perhaps discuss something a little closer to home. There is lots of interesting stuff with Brexit going on there (e.g. the recent David Davies interview was a little scary - he is a "Remoaner"??). I am sure we can have a civil discussion on what is happening with Brexit, can't we? :razz:
At no time did I suggest any group, nation or faith monopolised the disgrace of child marriage. That was the main point in my rebuke of Jamiet99uk singling out Idaho. Also the only reason I chose the Islamic adherence to this practise was to emphasise the impossibility of change in the face of the Prophet Mohamed’s splendid example of how to conduct life.
Some things on this earth are glaringly obvious as abhorrent to an individual’s moral code (this is an excellent example) but it isn’t going to change, not only in your lifetime, but probably in 1000+ years. As I say it is what it is. To target one group guilty of the behaviour over & above the millions of others is what I consider reprehensible & I made that point.
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Re: Time zones in America

#66 Post by flash2015 » Thu May 23, 2019 12:05 am

@Seniac, but you are still saying it is something fundamental to Islam which can't change because Mohammed practiced it. I would disagree. Even Saudi Arabia is moving to eradicate child marriage or at least reduce it:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-saud ... SKCN1P42CW

Note that up until this year the Catholic church minimum marriage age was 14 (now the Church is raising it to 16):

https://www.wltz.com/2019/02/22/pope-ra ... holic-law/

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Re: Time zones in America

#67 Post by Senlac » Thu May 23, 2019 12:29 am

flash2015 wrote:
Thu May 23, 2019 12:05 am
@Seniac, but you are still saying it is something fundamental to Islam which can't change because Mohammed practiced it. I would disagree. Even Saudi Arabia is moving to eradicate child marriage or at least reduce it:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-saud ... SKCN1P42CW

Note that up until this year the Catholic church minimum marriage age was 14 (now the Church is raising it to 16):

https://www.wltz.com/2019/02/22/pope-ra ... holic-law/
I did not realise the Islamic world was making any attempt whatsoever. I’m pleasantly surprised & wish them all possible luck, but won’t hold my breath. At least the intent is an indication of progress, however slight.
I repeat I never claimed this abomination was isolated to Islam. Islam was emphasised solely to illustrate the impossibility of progress, but it appears I may turn out to be wrong there & sincerely hope that’s the case.

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